Mass produced kit car? or Quality
Discussion
I'm considering buying an Elise S1 or a TVR Chimera (weekend use only).
Am I preparing to be dissapointed with Lotus's build quality. Does it actually produce enough power to give me the seat of your pants rush I sooo miss?
I will be booking a test drive in both, but always feel slighty enbarassed and don't really push the car enough.
If quality is a concern, should I go back to considering a German idiot box such as the M roadster?
Confused I know. I need help!
Am I preparing to be dissapointed with Lotus's build quality. Does it actually produce enough power to give me the seat of your pants rush I sooo miss?
I will be booking a test drive in both, but always feel slighty enbarassed and don't really push the car enough.
If quality is a concern, should I go back to considering a German idiot box such as the M roadster?
Confused I know. I need help!
Horses for courses really - they are very different cars and which one depends on what you're after from the driving experience.
The Elise is a B-road blaster that will put a grin on your face as soon as you see a twisty road sign
. The build quality of the S1 is pretty good - it is fairly basic inside and the engine is a K series which is a good'un - you'll get the old head gasket jibes but it isn't that common.
The Chimeara is a much more powerful but with less finesse than the Elise, undeniably quick and sounds the business especially with a sleeved exhaust. The Elise will lose the Chimeara on a twisty road and the TVR will disappear on the straights. I don't know much about them from a reliability point of view - certainly no better than the Elise and the build quality seems variable from what I've read on here - most of that appears to be niggles rather than faults.
The Elise is a B-road blaster that will put a grin on your face as soon as you see a twisty road sign
. The build quality of the S1 is pretty good - it is fairly basic inside and the engine is a K series which is a good'un - you'll get the old head gasket jibes but it isn't that common. The Chimeara is a much more powerful but with less finesse than the Elise, undeniably quick and sounds the business especially with a sleeved exhaust. The Elise will lose the Chimeara on a twisty road and the TVR will disappear on the straights. I don't know much about them from a reliability point of view - certainly no better than the Elise and the build quality seems variable from what I've read on here - most of that appears to be niggles rather than faults.
Buy a Griff and get the best from both worlds
(sorry, Im still in my Chim baiting mode from this thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=110348&f=13&h=0)
I would have said the same as Cuzza.
Totally different cars for different needs.
>> Edited by DustyC on Friday 9th July 12:59
(sorry, Im still in my Chim baiting mode from this thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=110348&f=13&h=0)
I would have said the same as Cuzza.
Totally different cars for different needs.
>> Edited by DustyC on Friday 9th July 12:59
Ed,
Not sure helpful this reply is going to be, but I was split between a Griff and an Elise when I bought my car, and am now in the process of trading my Elise in for a Griff 500.
Some observations:
1) The Elise has been 100% reliable, and build quality seems fine (despite the fact that it is a very early production car). I'm expecting the Giff to soak up a lot more time and money, though to be fair this is partially down to the fact that it is a much more complex and specialist car than the Elise (more electrics, and less modern/mainstream engine).
2) Conversely, Elise interiors seem to scuff up really easily (you see lots of tatty cars with only 20-30k on the clock), whereas the Griffs I've looked at seem to wear remarkably well - even 80K+ cars can still be nice and tidy, if a little 'lived in'.
3) Handling and steering feel are superb. Steering feel on the Griffith (Chimp should be similar, since they share a common chassis) is terrible in comparison, and very heavy. Haven't yet driven a Griff fast enough to comment on the handling, but from everything I've heard and read, I'm not expecting it to be much fun. The Elise is super sharp and predictable enough to set up 4 wheel drifts in the dry, but a bit fidgetty in the wet.
4) The Elise is plenty quick enough to get the adrenaline flowing on twisty country roads, and acceleration up to about 70 is fine (0-60 is about 5.7, compared to, realistically, about 5 seconds of a Chimp, so not much in it). Over 70, though, and particularly over 100mph, it is really only as brisk as a good hot hatch, and starts to feel a bit breathless. For comparison, Evo magazine timed a standard 118bhp Elise S1 at 12.1 seconds from 90-110 in top gear, whereas a 4 litre Chimp will do the same increment in in between 6.8 and 8.9 seconds, depending on whose figures you take (and the engines seem to be very inconsistent, too).
Main reason I'm getting rid of the Elise is comfort. I do a lot of long trips (300 miles+ in a day), and my girlfriend is giving me serious grief about the lack of comfort of the Elise's seats and the fact that I insist on driving everywhere hood down, 'cos (a) I can't get in and out of the bloody think with the hood up with any degree of grace, and (b) the hood takes so long to put up and take down that for anything that looks like being a brief shower, I just can't be bothered.
I don't expect to be able to drive the Griff as quickly point-to-point on country roads, or for it to be anywhere near as reliable, but hopefully the added comfort and lovely noise it makes will compensate to some degree.
You pays your money, and you takes your choice, though, at the end of the day - drive several examples of both cars, then buy whichever pushes your personal buttons.
Not sure helpful this reply is going to be, but I was split between a Griff and an Elise when I bought my car, and am now in the process of trading my Elise in for a Griff 500.
Some observations:
1) The Elise has been 100% reliable, and build quality seems fine (despite the fact that it is a very early production car). I'm expecting the Giff to soak up a lot more time and money, though to be fair this is partially down to the fact that it is a much more complex and specialist car than the Elise (more electrics, and less modern/mainstream engine).
2) Conversely, Elise interiors seem to scuff up really easily (you see lots of tatty cars with only 20-30k on the clock), whereas the Griffs I've looked at seem to wear remarkably well - even 80K+ cars can still be nice and tidy, if a little 'lived in'.
3) Handling and steering feel are superb. Steering feel on the Griffith (Chimp should be similar, since they share a common chassis) is terrible in comparison, and very heavy. Haven't yet driven a Griff fast enough to comment on the handling, but from everything I've heard and read, I'm not expecting it to be much fun. The Elise is super sharp and predictable enough to set up 4 wheel drifts in the dry, but a bit fidgetty in the wet.
4) The Elise is plenty quick enough to get the adrenaline flowing on twisty country roads, and acceleration up to about 70 is fine (0-60 is about 5.7, compared to, realistically, about 5 seconds of a Chimp, so not much in it). Over 70, though, and particularly over 100mph, it is really only as brisk as a good hot hatch, and starts to feel a bit breathless. For comparison, Evo magazine timed a standard 118bhp Elise S1 at 12.1 seconds from 90-110 in top gear, whereas a 4 litre Chimp will do the same increment in in between 6.8 and 8.9 seconds, depending on whose figures you take (and the engines seem to be very inconsistent, too).
Main reason I'm getting rid of the Elise is comfort. I do a lot of long trips (300 miles+ in a day), and my girlfriend is giving me serious grief about the lack of comfort of the Elise's seats and the fact that I insist on driving everywhere hood down, 'cos (a) I can't get in and out of the bloody think with the hood up with any degree of grace, and (b) the hood takes so long to put up and take down that for anything that looks like being a brief shower, I just can't be bothered.
I don't expect to be able to drive the Griff as quickly point-to-point on country roads, or for it to be anywhere near as reliable, but hopefully the added comfort and lovely noise it makes will compensate to some degree.
You pays your money, and you takes your choice, though, at the end of the day - drive several examples of both cars, then buy whichever pushes your personal buttons.
Martin_S said:
You pays your money, and you takes your choice, though, at the end of the day - drive several examples of both cars, then buy whichever pushes your personal buttons.
Completely agree with the sentiment above and by what others have written.
I had my heart set on a Chim, tried a 400, 400HC, a 450 and have been in (but not driven) a 500. Superb cars, very fast, lovely engine note... a real head turner. The minus points for me were a) cost of running and maintaining it, b) reliability issues. As it's my only car (albeit used infrequently compared to many - c. 5k a year) I just could not be arsed with mucking about all the time at garages.
So I had go in an Elise and was hooked. It's relatively cheap to purchase and to own in comparison to the TVR, incredible to drive on good B roads, more than adequate on Motorways, and because I got one with 111s seats actually pretty darn comfortable. Combine that with reasonable servicing and perishables costs, good MPG and a relatively reliable package, I think it is the perfect weekend car. The hood's a bit of a fag I guess but takes no more than 3 minutes to get on/off (and that's at a stroll), and with a HardTop it was fine in the wintry weather.
I love it and (money permitting) later in the year I'm hoping to be able to upgrade it to an S2.
Have a few test drives and see what you think - you're lucky to have such a great choice!
>> Edited by S Works on Tuesday 13th July 18:26
Martin_S said:
I don't expect to be able to drive the Griff as quickly point-to-point on country roads,
really? once you are aware of the handling characteristics I dont think you will struggle to cross country in similar times. Thats not to say the elise is crap, its a pretty impressive achievement that a 1.8 standard liz can cross vale 'n' dale in the same time as a 5 litre brute sports car.
cuzza and dustyc have battled it out in standard liz -v- griff 500 on a few occasions and there aint much in it on a typical country lane.
I love the elise. I often think about chopping in the chimaera for one. The running costs and aggrivation of running the TVR just dont seem worth it at times when the liz is just as quick, more frugal and maintanence costs are far lower. In addition, a track day in the TVR will cost me the best part of £500 when a car like that is so heavy on rear tyres. The Elise was made for the track and after paying for the cost of the trackday its peanuts in fuel and a few mm tyre wear. But to me, the TVR just makes me feel that much more special when I drive it. No doubt you guys might feel that way about the lotus and disagree with me. One day, I'll have a 190 elise/340R in the garage next to the TVR for some track day fun
Thanks very much for all you posts. Your feedaback really helped in making the decission. 
I bought an S1 111s yesterday and despite struggling with the roof. I'm absolutely over the moon. I simply can't beleive how fast I can negotiate roundabouts, my girlfriend followed me home in my company nail flashing me to slow down, when I actually felt like I was cornering pretty sedately! Love it
A freind who owns a late chimera also helped with my decission. He spent over 6k in repairs last year just keeping the car on the road. I guess you could pretty much re-biuld an elise for that!!
I bought an S1 111s yesterday and despite struggling with the roof. I'm absolutely over the moon. I simply can't beleive how fast I can negotiate roundabouts, my girlfriend followed me home in my company nail flashing me to slow down, when I actually felt like I was cornering pretty sedately! Love it
A freind who owns a late chimera also helped with my decission. He spent over 6k in repairs last year just keeping the car on the road. I guess you could pretty much re-biuld an elise for that!!
pleased to hear you are a happy bunny. as i said, the elise is a great car and doesnt come with the unexpected big bills that the TVR may have done (I have spent £2k on mine in 6 weeks). Now just watch that head gasket 
and I am glad you bought the Lotus - seeing as though you couldnt spell chimaera
and I am glad you bought the Lotus - seeing as though you couldnt spell chimaera
[quote]and I am glad you bought the Lotus - seeing as though you couldnt spell chimaera [/quote]
Mmmm.. spelling. Not my strong point!
They could have made it easier for illiterates like me by calling it a Trevor 1 or something
Thanks again.
>> Edited by Ed Winchester on Wednesday 14th July 12:24
[/quote] Mmmm.. spelling. Not my strong point!
They could have made it easier for illiterates like me by calling it a Trevor 1 or something
Thanks again.
>> Edited by Ed Winchester on Wednesday 14th July 12:24
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