Speed Cameras: Where would you put them?
Discussion
Apart from the very obvious answers (eg in a hole, under the sea, in Brunstrom), where would PHers site speed cameras (if at all)?
Try and leave aside whether a particular speed limit is right or wrong, and think more of where they might do some use. I'm thinking along the lines of outside schools or old people's homes, or on "dangerous" roads (eg where there have been a number of fatal RTCs directly attributable to excess speed)
Or would you get rid of them altogether? If so, what would you replace them with, if anything?
Try and leave aside whether a particular speed limit is right or wrong, and think more of where they might do some use. I'm thinking along the lines of outside schools or old people's homes, or on "dangerous" roads (eg where there have been a number of fatal RTCs directly attributable to excess speed)
Or would you get rid of them altogether? If so, what would you replace them with, if anything?
down the pan.
I would replace the ones in black spots with CCTV so that the areas could be monitored and recorded.
This would put people off speeding since they would be proved to have been out of control when they crashed and then prosecuted (this post needs a better author!).
All tha other cameras would be replaced with better policing. In this case better also equals more.
I got pulled over for speeding recently. Because the friendly Bib explained the hazards on that part of the road I learnt soemthing from it and now drive a lot carefuller along that stretch.
If I had been caught by a speed camera all I would have learnt was where the speed camera was.
I would replace the ones in black spots with CCTV so that the areas could be monitored and recorded.
This would put people off speeding since they would be proved to have been out of control when they crashed and then prosecuted (this post needs a better author!).
All tha other cameras would be replaced with better policing. In this case better also equals more.
I got pulled over for speeding recently. Because the friendly Bib explained the hazards on that part of the road I learnt soemthing from it and now drive a lot carefuller along that stretch.
If I had been caught by a speed camera all I would have learnt was where the speed camera was.
When I asked drivers about checking their speedos i the area of a speed camera 70%+ said they would check their speedos three times or more.
www.safespeed.org.uk/speedo.html
This means giving up far too much attention to the road ahead for it to be safe to place speed cameras outside schools.
I think speed cameras could have been used to the benefit of road safety if they had been placed in such locations and set at such thresholds that they only caught nutters at dangerous speeds.
But now confidence in speed cameras and the Police has been so badly affected that the only place for speed cameras is the scrapyard. In fact I'm quite certain that it's only a matter of time.
www.safespeed.org.uk/speedo.html
This means giving up far too much attention to the road ahead for it to be safe to place speed cameras outside schools.
I think speed cameras could have been used to the benefit of road safety if they had been placed in such locations and set at such thresholds that they only caught nutters at dangerous speeds.
But now confidence in speed cameras and the Police has been so badly affected that the only place for speed cameras is the scrapyard. In fact I'm quite certain that it's only a matter of time.
plotloss said:
I'd... replace them with fully trained traffic officers...
Sorry to edit your quote, Plotloss, but I don't think that's ever going to happen.
The public are more worried about burglaries and violent crime. They, the Home Office, and Police Auhtorities/Chief Constables don't seem to see Traffic/Road Policing as a priority any more.
You asked what I would like to see happen.
Not what is feasibly going to happen.
Of course we wont see it because bobbies in any capacity are a cost.
Speed cameras, once past ROI, arent.
Perhaps its a cynical view of our indirect taxation policy, perhaps its fact.
I just wish they would stop banging the road safety drum because if they were truly concerned about road safety then attaining a driving license in the first place would be exceptionally difficult.
Bring the country to a standstill because of the stupidity of the few is a mind bendingly ridiculous concept.
That said, what do I know...
Not what is feasibly going to happen.
Of course we wont see it because bobbies in any capacity are a cost.
Speed cameras, once past ROI, arent.
Perhaps its a cynical view of our indirect taxation policy, perhaps its fact.
I just wish they would stop banging the road safety drum because if they were truly concerned about road safety then attaining a driving license in the first place would be exceptionally difficult.
Bring the country to a standstill because of the stupidity of the few is a mind bendingly ridiculous concept.
That said, what do I know...
safespeed said:
I think speed cameras could have been used to the benefit of road safety if they had been placed in such locations and set at such thresholds that they only caught nutters at dangerous speeds.
That is my view, in fact when cameras were introduced it was stated to be "as a last resort."
Until about 6 months ago I would have said, and did say, there could be occasions where cameras have a place. eg known collision hot spot where excess speed above the limit is proven to be a significant causal / contributory factor and road engineering / signs etc have been tried and still not worked.
I've come to the conclusion that the whole camera issue has been soured to the extent that we need to rethink the whole thing. At the risk of a hackneyed phrase which also has unfortunate connotations but a need of "Back to Basics" comes to mind.
On another issue question to safespeed. (Apologies for thread hijack Dibble.)
You say somewhere, possibly on your site, that Prof Stone completely rejected such as TRL421.
Having read and re-read his judgement I must be missing something. Could you point it out please.
Ta,
FiF
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 9th July 12:31
plotloss said:
I just wish they would stop banging the road safety drum because if they were truly concerned about road safety then attaining a driving license in the first place would be exceptionally difficult.
Well said Plotloss!
I often ponder on whether some people win their licences in raffles these days, such are the driving "standards" displayed.
And while you're making the driving test more difficult, could you please bring in compulsory regular retesting for everyone as well? Ta.
Oh, and to answer the question - there are no good places for speed cameras. They're a dangerous distraction and simply a means of raising cash. Scrap 'em all!!
>> Edited by SGirl on Friday 9th July 12:35
Dibble said:
The public are more worried about burglaries and violent crime.
They might be worried about it Dibble, but they rarely complain about it.
I'm not lying when I say; at least 60% of the telephone calls
and letters 
recieved by my station are comlaints 
about: 1) Speeding motorists past the callers home/school etc
2) Neighbours parking across driveways or on footpath
3) Vehicles parked on the callers street with no road
tax.
4) Reporting incidents of Road Rage or
dangerous/careless driving.
etc etc
Street
Do away with them all. Not even outside schools.
Schools should have no parking within 200 meters strictly enforced by a traffic warden who could replace the lollipop ladies that they unnecessarily put on every zebra crossing within a mile of a school (so every one) in my hometown. Limits should stay at 30mph, but trafpols should use without due care, or dangerous driving as possible charges where appropriate.
If there were no mothers doing the school run, and their fat little sod kids walked to school, there would be no traffic, and thus no speeding near schools.
Children and pedestrians should be educated about the dangers of crossing the road and should be reminded that no mater whether they think they are entitled to priority or not over a motor vehicle, in a collision there will only be one winner. They should be made responsible for their own actions. If someone is run over within sight of a pedestrian crossing, then their lazy ass is grass in my book. Big wide bits of tarmac with lines down the middle are built for the use of cars. narrow tarmac by the side built for pedestrians. Mix only the two at predefined controlled points (crossings)
You don't go mixing trains with cars do you. Would a train driver be blamed in a collision with a car if the car decided to cross the train tracks at an inappropriate point?
Speeding in roadworks should be strictly policed by trafpols, but only during road working hours. Ie speedlimit to protect workers.
Basically speeding should only be enforced by well trained trafpols who can use discretion. On A roads and motorways there should be no speed limits. Police could use dangerous driving (at any speed) as a charge.
Drivers should have to take driver training every year at their own cost to maintain their license. If you can't afford it then tough, walk. Cars should be tested for safety every 6 months, even from new. Motoring should be a privilege not a right.
Caravans should have to obtain a safety certificate before every journey. (that should keep them off the roads.)
All the fat salleries and budgets of the safety camera partnerships should be spent on traffic policeing.
Basically there should be no need for cameras. The drivers that worry me the most are usually within the speed limit.
Oh and I do live in a dream world
>> Edited by wilkoj on Friday 9th July 12:41
Schools should have no parking within 200 meters strictly enforced by a traffic warden who could replace the lollipop ladies that they unnecessarily put on every zebra crossing within a mile of a school (so every one) in my hometown. Limits should stay at 30mph, but trafpols should use without due care, or dangerous driving as possible charges where appropriate.
If there were no mothers doing the school run, and their fat little sod kids walked to school, there would be no traffic, and thus no speeding near schools.
Children and pedestrians should be educated about the dangers of crossing the road and should be reminded that no mater whether they think they are entitled to priority or not over a motor vehicle, in a collision there will only be one winner. They should be made responsible for their own actions. If someone is run over within sight of a pedestrian crossing, then their lazy ass is grass in my book. Big wide bits of tarmac with lines down the middle are built for the use of cars. narrow tarmac by the side built for pedestrians. Mix only the two at predefined controlled points (crossings)
You don't go mixing trains with cars do you. Would a train driver be blamed in a collision with a car if the car decided to cross the train tracks at an inappropriate point?
Speeding in roadworks should be strictly policed by trafpols, but only during road working hours. Ie speedlimit to protect workers.
Basically speeding should only be enforced by well trained trafpols who can use discretion. On A roads and motorways there should be no speed limits. Police could use dangerous driving (at any speed) as a charge.
Drivers should have to take driver training every year at their own cost to maintain their license. If you can't afford it then tough, walk. Cars should be tested for safety every 6 months, even from new. Motoring should be a privilege not a right.
Caravans should have to obtain a safety certificate before every journey. (that should keep them off the roads.)
All the fat salleries and budgets of the safety camera partnerships should be spent on traffic policeing.
Basically there should be no need for cameras. The drivers that worry me the most are usually within the speed limit.
Oh and I do live in a dream world
>> Edited by wilkoj on Friday 9th July 12:41
I'd recycle them into something useful. They serve no purpose in their current guise other than to:
1) Cause motorists to deviate concentration from current road conditions to check their speedometer;
2) Cause a hightened disrespect and anger towards the police from the general public;
3) Give miserable retired people who hate motorists an existence;
4) Piss money up the wall achieving 3), whilst contributing only a fraction back to the Treasury.
5) Increase sales of angle grinders, towbars and very strong rope.
6) Give us people in the public eye like Richard Brunstrom and that Mary What-sher-name.
Is it not inconceivable that the money haemorrhaged sorry, spent on Safety Camera Partnerships could not be used in recruitment and training of more traffic policemen?
1) Cause motorists to deviate concentration from current road conditions to check their speedometer;
2) Cause a hightened disrespect and anger towards the police from the general public;
3) Give miserable retired people who hate motorists an existence;
4) Piss money up the wall achieving 3), whilst contributing only a fraction back to the Treasury.
5) Increase sales of angle grinders, towbars and very strong rope.
6) Give us people in the public eye like Richard Brunstrom and that Mary What-sher-name.
Is it not inconceivable that the money haemorrhaged sorry, spent on Safety Camera Partnerships could not be used in recruitment and training of more traffic policemen?
plotloss said:
At Brunters, just as you go along the runway there are graduated marks a la Gatso.
You have to have a good prescence of mind to remember you are actually on a racetrack so you dont automatically brake!
Are their many black lines there where public forget they are not on a public road?! (of course I realise there isn't, but could imagine the scenario of someone concentrating so much on trying to obtain topspeed that they see the lines and naturally through out the anchors!)
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