Six months time limit

[klm]

Once you have receieved an Nip, how long have BiB got to charge you with the offence on the Nip.

[Dwight VanDriver]

What is the NOIP for?

Did it come with S 172 Forms to name driver resulting from speed offence?

How long is a piece of string.

DVD

[klm]

Dwight VanDriver said:

What is the NOIP for? Did it come with S 172 Forms to name driver resulting from speed offence? How long is a piece of string. DVD

Nip is for dangerous driving and yes it did come with s 172 form

[klm]

Dwight VanDriver said:

What is the NOIP for? Did it come with S 172 Forms to name driver resulting from speed offence? How long is a piece of string. DVD

Nip is for dangerous driving and yes it did come with s 172 form

[TOM_AUDI_77``]

KLM Said:
Nip is for dangerous driving and yes it did come with s 172 form[/quote]

OK KLM...bad news...Speeding is Section 2 of the Road Traffic Act '88 which has a 6 month time limit on starting legal proceedings (be aware that from my reading this is from the prosecutor signing the certificate of evidence and not the date of offence).
In your case the NIP is for Dangerous Driving which is Section 1...this has no such time limit on commencing proceedings. I have read of posters on other forums not receiving a summons for 7-8 months.
You have an S 172 so obviously a posted NIP and not a verbal at the roadside in which case the DD must be based on the speed you were using, and not the standard of your driving.
You don't say what device recorded your speed.
The following site is a bit dated in terms of the S 172 loophole but does have some advice on examining evidence from differnt devices used to record your speed and other useful stuff.
www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_Home/Rules_useage/The_Law.htm
It also lists DD as section 2 but I have a copy of the RTA '88 and it is section 1 by my reading.
Do some research on defences against the device that recorded your speed and get some good legal advice! I mean that...DD can result in a custodial sentence on top of a ban and hefty fine!!!
By defences I mean in the case of a static camera and the like an enhenced photo cannot be used as evidence.

>> Edited by TOM_AUDI_77`` on Saturday 10th July 00:15

>> Edited by TOM_AUDI_77`` on Saturday 10th July 00:39

[klm]

Cheers Tom, From what I know this was a covert speed check, two BiB hiding in the bushes, not visible to anyone, as far as I know I would say it's a hand held device recorded the speed.
Is there any law stating that they can hide up or be seen?

[Streetcop]

No law

[Dwight VanDriver]

Tom....

Can I try and clear some confusion in my grey matter.

Firstly, Dangerous driving is it not Contrary to Section 2 Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 Road traffic Offenders Act 1988?

Speeding Contrary to Section 89 Road Traffic Regulation Act, 1984 and Sched 2 RTOA 88?

The offence of DD is mentioned in Schedule 1 RTOA 88 as one to which Section 6 (Limitation on proceedings) apply and this is that proceedings have to be commenced within 6 months of coming to the notice of the Prosecutor (Police/Camera Operator)with max of 3 years. Laying of an information (application for summons)kicks proceedings off so has to be done within the 6 months and once summons raised then it can remain on file for service outside the 6 months.

Now I seek help from Silverback Mike, Gone or other serving BiB in that as I understand it DD is not a Fixed Penalty Offence under Sch 3 RTOA 88 so cannot be dealt with under Conditional Offer. Because of the serious nature of the offence how do they get it to Court without the driver being interviewed. Obviously if was for straight forward speeding no problem. Klm states NOIP for DD - no mention of speed. Is the procedure now that because of a very high speed infringement that they go straight into a Court case for DD. i.e. NOIP, 172, drivers details and bang summons? Doesn't seem right to me.

DVD

[klm]

So what happend to the , got to be seen from 60 metres away, be seen with high vis jacket, got to be seen to lift the speed gun and not just hold it pointing continues at on coming cars, which is why the statment will start " I formed the opinion" . I thought it was the Bib that think your speeding and then use the gun for back up.

[gone]

[quote=TOM_AUDI_77``]KLM Said:
Nip is for dangerous driving and yes it did come with s 172 form[/quote]

OK KLM...bad news...Speeding is Section 2 of the Road Traffic Act '88
[/quote]

Its actually

1. Section Section 82 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 for 30mph

2. Temporary speed limits are Section 88 Road Traffic Regulaton Act 1984

3. Particular classes of vehicle are Section 86 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984

4. Speed limits for particular classes of vehicles on Motorways are covered in Schedule 6 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 otherwise it is covered by Section 17(4) Road Traffic regulation act 1984 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders act 1988 (70mph)


[quote=tom_audi_77``]

In your case the NIP is for Dangerous Driving which is Section 1...this has no such time limit on commencing proceedings.
[/quote]

Section 1 RTA 1988 is Causing Death by Dangeorus driving. 10 years imprisonment!

Section 2 RTA 1988 covers Dangerous Driving


[quote=tom_audi_77``]
I have read of posters on other forums not receiving a summons for 7-8 months.
[/quote]

As long as the summons/information is laid within 6 months, the service of it can happen even years later!


[quote=tom_audi_77``]
It also lists DD as section 2 but I have a copy of the RTA '88 and it is section 1 by my reading.
[/quote]

They are quite right, it is Section 2 RTA 1988
Section 3 RTA 1988 is Careless Driving.
Section 3(a) is Causing Death by Careless driving.

[quote=tom audi_77_``]
Do some research on defences against the device that recorded your speed and get some good legal advice! I mean that...DD can result in a custodial sentence on top of a ban and hefty fine!!!
By defences I mean in the case of a static camera and the like an enhenced photo cannot be used as evidence.
[/quote]

Good advice too!

[gone]

Tom_audi_77``

The system appears to not like your profile name as it is impossible to quote you like anyone else on the board.

Could you possibly change it?

Regards
Gone!

[gone]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Now I seek help from Silverback Mike, Gone or other serving BiB in that as I understand it DD is not a Fixed Penalty Offence under Sch 3 RTOA 88 so cannot be dealt with under Conditional Offer.

DVD said:

Because of the serious nature of the offence how do they get it to Court without the driver being interviewed. Obviously if was for straight forward speeding no problem. Klm states NOIP for DD - no mention of speed. Is the procedure now that because of a very high speed infringement that they go straight into a Court case for DD.

DVD said:

i.e. NOIP, 172, drivers details and bang summons? Doesn't seem right to me. DVD

Driver receives Sect 172 notice and sends in reply. No provisional FPT can be issued as the offence is serious. When Sect 172 notice is received by the dispatching officer, he/she will attend the address of the offender and interview there or alternatively invite the offender to the nick to be interviewed on tape. I would advise going to the nick and taking a lawyer with you!!

Dangerous Driving is not arrestable unless it can be fitted into Sect 25 PACE 1984 somehow OR there are other factors invovled such as failing to stop after RTA/ Failing to stop for Police in uniform/ Driving Whilst Disqualified.

[klm]

So far my wife hasn't sent the s172 back and it is now 4 months from the date of alleged offence, and we have had no reminder for s172 or no summons for failure of s172.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Thanks Gone for getting rid of that nightmare scenario of DD direct ot Court no interview. Strange things I know are happening but that Shhhzzz.

Cannot explain to Klm the delay except if it was just for speeding summons may be in transit for 172 offence.
Otherwise if DD someone is sitting on a peice of pare in the Enquiry tray?

DVD

[TOM_AUDI_77``]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Tom.... Can I try and clear some confusion in my grey matter. Firstly, Dangerous driving is it not Contrary to Section 2 Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 Road traffic Offenders Act 1988? Speeding Contrary to Section 89 Road Traffic Regulation Act, 1984 and Sched 2 RTOA 88? DVD

Thanks DVD....think you lost me a couple of sentences in
Apologies KLM for the duff information.
Think I said 'in my reading' which was obviously wrong but not being a lawyer is why I suggested getting proper advice.

DVD
The reason I said I assumed the DD to be in relation to KLM's speed alone is this; I have recently been to court for speeding and DD was mentioned by the BiB's when I was stopped. It wasn't pursued but in court but I was informed by the Magistrate that cases of 130mph have been deemed DD on the basis of speed and that had I been a handful of mph faster when recorded I could have faced this charge and the potential of a custodial sentence.

Gone
I will look at how I change my nickname. And thanks for correcting my earlier post.

KLM
I agree about your take on the use of handhelds which leads me to think it was probably an unmaned device or one accompanied by someone from a partnership scheme. Every device has rules about its use and the link I sent you previously has a comprehensive list of devices, how they work, and rules of use.

[JohnL]

gone said:

Driver receives Sect 172 notice and sends in reply. No provisional FPT can be issued as the offence is serious. When Sect 172 notice is received by the dispatching officer, he/she will attend the address of the offender and interview there or alternatively invite the offender to the nick to be interviewed on tape. I would advise going to the nick and taking a lawyer with you!!

I thought that S172 could only beused for "minor" offences? Ie, can only be forced to incriminate yourself if a minor offence with minor penalties (or words to that effect).

So, since DD is neither - judging by the above - wouldn't the best advice be to ignore a DD S172?

[gone]

JohnL said:

gone said: Driver receives Sect 172 notice and sends in reply. No provisional FPT can be issued as the offence is serious. When Sect 172 notice is received by the dispatching officer, he/she will attend the address of the offender and interview there or alternatively invite the offender to the nick to be interviewed on tape. I would advise going to the nick and taking a lawyer with you!! I thought that S172 could only beused for "minor" offences? Ie, can only be forced to incriminate yourself if a minor offence with minor penalties (or words to that effect). So, since DD is neither - judging by the above - wouldn't the best advice be to ignore a DD S172?

Dangerous/Careless driving or Cycling are part of the specifics of an NIP. These offences are NIPable and therefore attached to the Section 172 notice. You cannot get around it by stating it is 'a serious offence' and not replying. A knock on the door is sure to follow which may make things a little worse than they would have been should he have filled in the form as requested!