Discussion
Various people have mentioned Pro Comp as a class over the last few years, and particularly recently in the nostalgia funny car thread. The class predates my involvement with the sport, and I can't find any information about it on the net. So can someone explain what the class is about, and why people want to see it return?
It was basically a heads up no break out class for methanol powered dragsters, altereds and funny cars that started in the 70's (IIRC?). It existed basically because there weren't enough of each type to warrant individual classes. The original Top Alcohol class in Europe followed the same format, but the altereds got outlawed at first, followed by the splitting up of the dragsters and funny cars once the FIA came on board. That's how I remember it anyway.
a truely an epic class!
I liken it to pm today with the mix of cars, anglo scandinavian battles and different combinations.
It was born from top gas and comp in the states, and even though i was about 6 at the time vividly remember the likes of steiner stolen, bjorn ardin etc amazing everyone with their cars and particularly driving style.
It 'became' top alcohol racing til the cars were split int he 90's.
There are a few 'left overs' from the rules in those days aswell, hence the funny cars have 526ci engines and the dragsters much smaller.
It was done at the time to even out the different cars.
Also a/fuel was around to start with, and because they disappeared cos no one could get one to run, was never taken out of the rules.
as a result in the early 90's a few people tried them int he states and doug bond here too, and hey presto the combo wars began again!
On a good day they were even, but on an average track the dragsters had a clear advantage and it was very competitive.
See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vntv8-I9YA
for what it was all about at the height of the class.
And thank you to uk nostalgia for putting these on you tube
I liken it to pm today with the mix of cars, anglo scandinavian battles and different combinations.
It was born from top gas and comp in the states, and even though i was about 6 at the time vividly remember the likes of steiner stolen, bjorn ardin etc amazing everyone with their cars and particularly driving style.
It 'became' top alcohol racing til the cars were split int he 90's.
There are a few 'left overs' from the rules in those days aswell, hence the funny cars have 526ci engines and the dragsters much smaller.
It was done at the time to even out the different cars.
Also a/fuel was around to start with, and because they disappeared cos no one could get one to run, was never taken out of the rules.
as a result in the early 90's a few people tried them int he states and doug bond here too, and hey presto the combo wars began again!
On a good day they were even, but on an average track the dragsters had a clear advantage and it was very competitive.
See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vntv8-I9YA
for what it was all about at the height of the class.
And thank you to uk nostalgia for putting these on you tube
i dont know where you think the cars for this class will come from
there are just two or three guys with cars who could race in this class
youd probably need to be able to run 6.2 to have a chance of winning and the amount of guys left in the sport who could do that are very few and far between,
im sure to start with there would be a lot of interest but that would die away with the dawning of the realization that most guys would be fodder to the top two or 3 teams
remember this is heads up blown alcohol.........the dragsters should be running 5s the only guys still racing i see with the nouse to make a go of this is Bennets, Wrattens, iv got a suspicion the Harrisons could be right up there prety quickly..........who else
maybe im wrong..it would be nice if i was... im playing devils advocaat here
so name some names...
there are just two or three guys with cars who could race in this class
youd probably need to be able to run 6.2 to have a chance of winning and the amount of guys left in the sport who could do that are very few and far between,
im sure to start with there would be a lot of interest but that would die away with the dawning of the realization that most guys would be fodder to the top two or 3 teams
remember this is heads up blown alcohol.........the dragsters should be running 5s the only guys still racing i see with the nouse to make a go of this is Bennets, Wrattens, iv got a suspicion the Harrisons could be right up there prety quickly..........who else
maybe im wrong..it would be nice if i was... im playing devils advocaat here
so name some names...
Edited by wicked fish on Friday 3rd February 17:32
topfuelgb said:
a truely an epic class!
I liken it to pm today with the mix of cars, anglo scandinavian battles and different combinations.
It was born from top gas and comp in the states, and even though i was about 6 at the time vividly remember the likes of steiner stolen bjorn ardin etc amazing everyone with their cars and particularly driving style.
It 'became' top alcohol racing til the cars were split int he 90's.
There are a few 'left overs' from the rules in those days aswell, hence the funny cars have 526ci engines and the dragsters much smaller.
It was done at the time to even out the different cars.
Also a/fuel was around to start with, and because they disappeared cos no one could get one to run, was never taken out of the rules.
as a result in the early 90's a few people tried them int he states and doug bond here too, and hey presto the combo wars began again!
On a good day they were even, but on an average track the dragsters had a clear advantage and it was very competitive.
See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vntv8-I9YA
for what it was all about at the height of the class.
And thank you to uk nostalgia for putting these on you tube
loved Stiener stolens "Stolen racing engines" always made me giggleI liken it to pm today with the mix of cars, anglo scandinavian battles and different combinations.
It was born from top gas and comp in the states, and even though i was about 6 at the time vividly remember the likes of steiner stolen bjorn ardin etc amazing everyone with their cars and particularly driving style.
It 'became' top alcohol racing til the cars were split int he 90's.
There are a few 'left overs' from the rules in those days aswell, hence the funny cars have 526ci engines and the dragsters much smaller.
It was done at the time to even out the different cars.
Also a/fuel was around to start with, and because they disappeared cos no one could get one to run, was never taken out of the rules.
as a result in the early 90's a few people tried them int he states and doug bond here too, and hey presto the combo wars began again!
On a good day they were even, but on an average track the dragsters had a clear advantage and it was very competitive.
See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vntv8-I9YA
for what it was all about at the height of the class.
And thank you to uk nostalgia for putting these on you tube
wicked fish said:
i dont know where you think the cars for this class will come from
there are just two or three guys with cars who could race in this class
youd probably need to be able to run 6.2 to have a chance of winning and the amount of guys left in the sport who could do that are very few and far between,
im sure to start with there would be a lot of interest but that would die away with the dawning of the realization that most guys would be fodder to the top two or 3 teams
remember this is heads up blown alcohol.........the dragsters should be running 5s the only guys still racing i see with the nouse to make a go of this is Bennets, Wrattens, iv got a suspicion the Harrisons could be right up there prety quickly..........who else
maybe im wrong..it would be nice if i was... im playing devils advocaat here
so name some names...
Got some good points, but already 20 cars that want to join. Confirmed. From Super Pro, NFAA etc. There are more unahppy racers than people might think. there are just two or three guys with cars who could race in this class
youd probably need to be able to run 6.2 to have a chance of winning and the amount of guys left in the sport who could do that are very few and far between,
im sure to start with there would be a lot of interest but that would die away with the dawning of the realization that most guys would be fodder to the top two or 3 teams
remember this is heads up blown alcohol.........the dragsters should be running 5s the only guys still racing i see with the nouse to make a go of this is Bennets, Wrattens, iv got a suspicion the Harrisons could be right up there prety quickly..........who else
maybe im wrong..it would be nice if i was... im playing devils advocaat here
so name some names...
Edited by wicked fish on Friday 3rd February 17:32
Thanks for mentioning us, and yes wrattens, drapers will run quick, harrisons will get faster, lots of cars in super pro sandbagging that can join, I do agree you need to run fast in whatever format this class takes...but I REALLY think it very important to make the rules so that they
A - MAKE people innovate - make them run faster/lose weight/blah blah
B - DONT 'price' people out of the class.
C - dont let a dragster join and walk it, would kill it stone dead
We are not rich, far far from it. Part of the reason we havent raced is because we dont have a pot to pi55 in. However I feel so strongly that no one in the UK is building to go fast any more.
I am a perfect example of this, building a simple BBC with a glide. Easy. There is a big big gap in the UK and it needs to be filled asap or we in drag racing terms will be a nothing country and I mean no disrespect to any UK racers at all. Take John Bradshaw having to pretty much move whole operation to Sweden...says it all. He should be racing Pro Comp, pairing up with us and whoever else joins.
He has run 6.63 I believe? 211mph so is far from a slow car, sure there is more to come too.
I firmly believe the class has the potential to be HUGE.
wicked fish said:
i think the nfaa would be decimated
would you not keep the origional format of blown alky altereds funnys and dragsters heads up on weightbreaks??
are we taliking about pro comp as i knew it of another class totaly with the same name??
Sadly it already is. would you not keep the origional format of blown alky altereds funnys and dragsters heads up on weightbreaks??
are we taliking about pro comp as i knew it of another class totaly with the same name??
All heads up. None of this staggered lights or complicated rubbish.
My old man remembers more as I was a kid but I think it needs updating as hi helix blowers etc.
we would expect like you say a dragster to run a 5. So rules need to be clever. They need to be fair.
I'd love a class with everything. Altereds, funny cars, dragsters, pro mods. All heads up. You lose go home and learn and come back faster.
Believe me nothing would give us greater joy than to run in a competitive heads up 6 sec class against whatever else may be in the other lane.
BennettRacing said:
. Take John Bradshaw having to pretty much move whole operation to Sweden...says it all. He should be racing Pro Comp, pairing up with us and whoever else joins.
He has run 6.63 I believe? 211mph so is far from a slow car, sure there is more to come too.
I firmly believe the class has the potential to be HUGE.
He has run 6.63 I believe? 211mph so is far from a slow car, sure there is more to come too.
I firmly believe the class has the potential to be HUGE.
so from what im reading here this is a totaly new class your proposing that happens to be called pro comp
rather than the resurection of pro comp proper........have you any idea of the enormity of what you are proposing, i suspect not, one of the reasons for the demise of pro comp proper was the parity thing,
good guys like Norm Wheeldon bailed out of racing propper because of weight breaks and the parity within the types of car in the class and that just had blown alky dragsters altereds and funnys,
you are proposing almost an anything goes as long as it s fast enough....... so what will you do to make the slower cars equal to the realy fast cars what will you do for instance if the Turners fancy a go at "pro comp"
I do get what your saying here but i dont think its as easy as you think
ask Rob Loaring how many years, how much pain, how much b
hing and whinging and head banging it took in SUMO to get N20 and N/A somewhere near parity do you realize Sumo is in its 12th year and things have been stable for about the last 3,
your proposing a much wider spectrum of race cars with many different engine types and power adders
who is there who could make a set of draught rules to even come close to get it off the ground, i susspect no one
look im not anti pro comp at all i just think trying to modernise something thart was prety pure back in the day and still managed to upset people is asking for trouble,
the best way out of this is pure index racing it would be easier to come up with a set of indexes that would be a bit closer and a whole lot easier than trying to get parity in totaly different types of cars,
if you want heads up pro comp then it has to be all one type of engine combination,
all of this is just my oppinion of cource and id be happy for once if you can make me wrong,
id like to see a heads up fast class too
rather than the resurection of pro comp proper........have you any idea of the enormity of what you are proposing, i suspect not, one of the reasons for the demise of pro comp proper was the parity thing,
good guys like Norm Wheeldon bailed out of racing propper because of weight breaks and the parity within the types of car in the class and that just had blown alky dragsters altereds and funnys,
you are proposing almost an anything goes as long as it s fast enough....... so what will you do to make the slower cars equal to the realy fast cars what will you do for instance if the Turners fancy a go at "pro comp"
I do get what your saying here but i dont think its as easy as you think
ask Rob Loaring how many years, how much pain, how much b
hing and whinging and head banging it took in SUMO to get N20 and N/A somewhere near parity do you realize Sumo is in its 12th year and things have been stable for about the last 3,your proposing a much wider spectrum of race cars with many different engine types and power adders
who is there who could make a set of draught rules to even come close to get it off the ground, i susspect no one
look im not anti pro comp at all i just think trying to modernise something thart was prety pure back in the day and still managed to upset people is asking for trouble,
the best way out of this is pure index racing it would be easier to come up with a set of indexes that would be a bit closer and a whole lot easier than trying to get parity in totaly different types of cars,
if you want heads up pro comp then it has to be all one type of engine combination,
all of this is just my oppinion of cource and id be happy for once if you can make me wrong,
id like to see a heads up fast class too
wicked fish said:
so from what im reading here this is a totaly new class your proposing that happens to be called pro comp
rather than the resurection of pro comp proper........have you any idea of the enormity of what you are proposing, i suspect not, one of the reasons for the demise of pro comp proper was the parity thing,
good guys like Norm Wheeldon bailed out of racing propper because of weight breaks and the parity within the types of car in the class and that just had blown alky dragsters altereds and funnys,
you are proposing almost an anything goes as long as it s fast enough....... so what will you do to make the slower cars equal to the realy fast cars what will you do for instance if the Turners fancy a go at "pro comp"
I do get what your saying here but i dont think its as easy as you think
ask Rob Loaring how many years, how much pain, how much bhing and whinging and head banging it took in SUMO to get N20 and N/A somewhere near parity do you realize Sumo is in its 12th year and things have been stable for about the last 3,
your proposing a much wider spectrum of race cars with many different engine types and power adders
who is there who could make a set of draught rules to even come close to get it off the ground, i susspect no one
look im not anti pro comp at all i just think trying to modernise something thart was prety pure back in the day and still managed to upset people is asking for trouble,
the best way out of this is pure index racing it would be easier to come up with a set of indexes that would be a bit closer and a whole lot easier than trying to get parity in totaly different types of cars,
if you want heads up pro comp then it has to be all one type of engine combination,
all of this is just my oppinion of cource and id be happy for once if you can make me wrong,
id like to see a heads up fast class too
I think its a massive task, but remember this is the Pod's idea. I put a post on here ages ago as I think you did pretty much saying same thing...there is not a heads up class in UK racing. rather than the resurection of pro comp proper........have you any idea of the enormity of what you are proposing, i suspect not, one of the reasons for the demise of pro comp proper was the parity thing,
good guys like Norm Wheeldon bailed out of racing propper because of weight breaks and the parity within the types of car in the class and that just had blown alky dragsters altereds and funnys,
you are proposing almost an anything goes as long as it s fast enough....... so what will you do to make the slower cars equal to the realy fast cars what will you do for instance if the Turners fancy a go at "pro comp"
I do get what your saying here but i dont think its as easy as you think
ask Rob Loaring how many years, how much pain, how much b
hing and whinging and head banging it took in SUMO to get N20 and N/A somewhere near parity do you realize Sumo is in its 12th year and things have been stable for about the last 3,your proposing a much wider spectrum of race cars with many different engine types and power adders
who is there who could make a set of draught rules to even come close to get it off the ground, i susspect no one
look im not anti pro comp at all i just think trying to modernise something thart was prety pure back in the day and still managed to upset people is asking for trouble,
the best way out of this is pure index racing it would be easier to come up with a set of indexes that would be a bit closer and a whole lot easier than trying to get parity in totaly different types of cars,
if you want heads up pro comp then it has to be all one type of engine combination,
all of this is just my oppinion of cource and id be happy for once if you can make me wrong,
id like to see a heads up fast class too
For me its got to be roots only (as far as blowers go) - but like you say then you have NO2, turbos to contend with a try to fit too. Its hard to write.
Or as Joe Bond mentioned a while back have a low index IE 6.50
You run a 6.51 your number one
You run a 6.48 (under index) then you add difference to ET so you end up with a 6.52
There are still enough clever people that I think need to get round a table and get 'something' on paper to a degree, to see if it could work.
BennettRacing said:
I think its a massive task, but remember this is the Pod's idea. I put a post on here ages ago as I think you did pretty much saying same thing...there is not a heads up class in UK racing.
For me its got to be roots only (as far as blowers go) - but like you say then you have NO2, turbos to contend with a try to fit too. Its hard to write.
Or as Joe Bond mentioned a while back have a low index IE 6.50
You run a 6.51 your number one
You run a 6.48 (under index) then you add difference to ET so you end up with a 6.52
There are still enough clever people that I think need to get round a table and get 'something' on paper to a degree, to see if it could work.
The rules discussions have already started, and this is just a fourm!For me its got to be roots only (as far as blowers go) - but like you say then you have NO2, turbos to contend with a try to fit too. Its hard to write.
Or as Joe Bond mentioned a while back have a low index IE 6.50
You run a 6.51 your number one
You run a 6.48 (under index) then you add difference to ET so you end up with a 6.52
There are still enough clever people that I think need to get round a table and get 'something' on paper to a degree, to see if it could work.
An index has arisen and a roots blower only rule appeared from what a few days ago was "Blown Methanol Heads Up".
Yes Super pro is similar to pro comp, and has a cap on it as not being heads up so the best tuners and quickest cars dont run away with it, If you wanted to run in pro comp could you just buy a ex tmd dragster that is not sfi certified and run 6.0 maybe 5.9 in it whilst everyone else is running 6.50's is that fair. It will be hard to keep everyone happy, I may be wrong but it looks to me that bennett racing wants the pod to bring in a new class for the spec's of his cars to fit in nicely, and run heads up in.
Squating Neville said:
Yes Super pro is similar to pro comp, and has a cap on it as not being heads up so the best tuners and quickest cars dont run away with it, If you wanted to run in pro comp could you just buy a ex tmd dragster that is not sfi certified and run 6.0 maybe 5.9 in it whilst everyone else is running 6.50's is that fair. It will be hard to keep everyone happy, I may be wrong but it looks to me that bennett racing wants the pod to bring in a new class for the spec's of his cars to fit in nicely, and run heads up in.
Pretty sure that isnt the case...Super pro isn't really the same as Pro Comp, its an open bracket class more than anything...there is probably a good handfull of cars in super pro that would be interested in a Pro Comp heads up style class, but as Luke's said, someone needs to sit down and see if it could work or not..
Squating Neville said:
Yes Super pro is similar to pro comp, and has a cap on it as not being heads up so the best tuners and quickest cars dont run away with it, If you wanted to run in pro comp could you just buy a ex tmd dragster that is not sfi certified and run 6.0 maybe 5.9 in it whilst everyone else is running 6.50's is that fair. It will be hard to keep everyone happy, I may be wrong but it looks to me that bennett racing wants the pod to bring in a new class for the spec's of his cars to fit in nicely, and run heads up in.
Who are you mate? Put a name on aye. How many times. The pod suggested this class. Not us.
Reason I stated roots only is using a psi or whippe a dragster will run easy 5.50-5.60's
Please don't start knocking our name without having the balls to list yours.
Super Pro is a huge class full of great people but not for us I'm afraid.
To expect a sponsor to understand the rules is a virtual no go. To explain why you have been knocked out if you crossed the line first but sorry we ran to quickly is a sponsor wtf is going on question
The class regularly like others gets the stty end of the stick ie/ no runs for nearly 30 hours on one recent occasion ( sorry sponsors) and some of us genuinely just want to go as quick as poss.
To get asked to turn a 6 sec car around in 15 mins - forget it.
Fingers crossed something gets sorted but it just seems painful getting there.
We will use super pro for testing in 2012 for the first 2 days and then pack up and go home to save on costs and grief. The budget is best used elsewhere to be honest.
To expect a sponsor to understand the rules is a virtual no go. To explain why you have been knocked out if you crossed the line first but sorry we ran to quickly is a sponsor wtf is going on question
The class regularly like others gets the s
tty end of the stick ie/ no runs for nearly 30 hours on one recent occasion ( sorry sponsors) and some of us genuinely just want to go as quick as poss.To get asked to turn a 6 sec car around in 15 mins - forget it.
Fingers crossed something gets sorted but it just seems painful getting there.
We will use super pro for testing in 2012 for the first 2 days and then pack up and go home to save on costs and grief. The budget is best used elsewhere to be honest.
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