Discussion
if they were legally obliged to repair i'm guessing they'd be opening themselves up to total broad side litigation. so no, always going to be done as a 'goodwill' gesture.
there's only two ways they could approach it as a 'legal obligation':
1) not all m3's were created equal, therefore it's not a full on recall and it's dealt with discretely from car to car, but then they'd have to offer a check. and consumers would wonder why they weren't created equal.
2) all m3's are affected and subject to metal fatigue, leading to failure. total recall of e46, not going to happen...
many moons ago, when i raced mountain bikes, a lad i raced with went through 3 specialized m2 frames, snapping at exactly the same point, i heard of a couple of others that had done the same, mine went on for 3 seasons, and is still ok 15 years later, in the loft of my garage. so despite some people saying it's an inherent fault on all, i suspect that's not strictly true.
there's only two ways they could approach it as a 'legal obligation':
1) not all m3's were created equal, therefore it's not a full on recall and it's dealt with discretely from car to car, but then they'd have to offer a check. and consumers would wonder why they weren't created equal.
2) all m3's are affected and subject to metal fatigue, leading to failure. total recall of e46, not going to happen...
many moons ago, when i raced mountain bikes, a lad i raced with went through 3 specialized m2 frames, snapping at exactly the same point, i heard of a couple of others that had done the same, mine went on for 3 seasons, and is still ok 15 years later, in the loft of my garage. so despite some people saying it's an inherent fault on all, i suspect that's not strictly true.
There have been lots of threads and opinions about what BMW UK will authorise but cars have been repaired with mods, without BMWSH and with more than 100k on the clock. So far as I know no one has managed to get a car repaired that is more than 10 years old and that seems to be the only certainty.
Was looking to buy an E46 M3 this time last year, alot of car for a reasonable amount of money I think but eventually decided against it after reading up on numerous threads re; subframe issues and some real bad cracking issues (various pics) on M3 Cutters site. Quite shocking I think that a brand such as BMW has got an underlying fault such as this with the E46 model. I still fancy buying one in the future and I know there are some that have been sold with the subframe done but many that haven't but have had clean bills of health, but for how long? Would really hate to have to part with the cash if it cracked after purchase (just my luck) and BMW wouldn't cover it for their various reasons...
Fury RS said:
Was looking to buy an E46 M3 this time last year, alot of car for a reasonable amount of money I think but eventually decided against it after reading up on numerous threads re; subframe issues and some real bad cracking issues (various pics) on M3 Cutters site. Quite shocking I think that a brand such as BMW has got an underlying fault such as this with the E46 model. I still fancy buying one in the future and I know there are some that have been sold with the subframe done but many that haven't but have had clean bills of health, but for how long? Would really hate to have to part with the cash if it cracked after purchase (just my luck) and BMW wouldn't cover it for their various reasons...
I was in a similar predicament just recently but I came to the issue the other way around; bought the car and then found out about the issues.I've had mine future proofed, but it's cost me
Have a read of my thread, hopefully it may put your mind at rest if you are thinking of buying - as you say they are a hell of a lot of car for the money!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Yo!
Thought i would post a little up about the subframe cracking, possibly what i expect to see in the future.
So i have an E46 M3 now on 99k. July 2002.
When i bought the car i had the car checked over for everything, and nothing came up (ie subframe cracking) had been into Darren Woods just before i bought it and again nothing was found. This was around March/April time 2011.
So i have only done about 5k or so in the almost a year i have had it.
Now i have read alot about the M3's and subframe cracking, there is a huge thread on the M3cutters website about places to take the car to get it repaired as these dealers know exactly what they are looking for, and that know how to get BMW to repair it under "goodwill". There are quite a few dealers that have no idea about the problem, even some supposed specialised indy's know nothing about the problem.
Anyway, start of January i had the car in to get the handbrake tightened at my local garage, at the same time, asked him to have a quick look underneath for any cracks. (he said he had to repaired one of the old 328's with this issue)... anyway he found one.
Looked up the cutters list of places that authorise the work. Turns out it was Menzies in Stirling which is a wee trip away.....
Long story short, they looked at it. Send away pictures to BMW UK, who then authorised the repair. 3 weeks later i have the car back good as new and only paid for sundries.
So after speaking with the dealers etc.
The rule BMW UK have is under 10 years old and no mods........... however some dealers have overlooked the mods, just as wheels and spacers, have heard of 1 overlooking springs also..... doubt they will over look superchargers etc.
HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!
Some dealers have been known to check the forums, and i know of 1 occasion where someone was turned down for the repair for returning the car to standard just before taking it into the dealer, and talked about it on the forum and where he was taking the car. (think this was Perth).
The chat is that too many cars are having to get this repair now, its just not a case of a few, there are quite a lot now, doesnt really matter on age, seem to happen to the early cars, just as much as the newest ones and CSL's.
So what i think we are going to see now is 2 tiers of prices for these cars. Ones which have had the full repair (they did do strengthening foam to begin with, all are NOW whole floor repairs) and others that have not.
I wouldnt let it put you off buying one!!!!! they are awesome, awesome cars. However i would buy one that has definatley had the subframe repaired, or one that is a good bit under 10 years old.
PAY MORE for the car that got the repair esp if looking at 2003 and older cars.
There is chat in quite a lot of adverts that say "all clear on subframe" in my opinion its bulls
t, they subframe might appear to be all clear, but so was mine 5k miles and 7 months before. This is also another guy on the cutters website, who actually has full tears in the floor who had his given the all clear 6-7 months ago, (bloke in Ireland, who is having troubles getting it repaired as their dealers dont know).
This might seem like a scare story but i really dont mean it to be, im really happy with the car. The car drive like new after the repair!!
I would suggest buying 2004-2005 car, or buying one that has had the whole floor replaced already.
The question i have, how long are BMW going to keep replacing the subframe under goodwill? will they change it to a recall at some point, or just deny all knowledge?
Thought i would post a little up about the subframe cracking, possibly what i expect to see in the future.
So i have an E46 M3 now on 99k. July 2002.
When i bought the car i had the car checked over for everything, and nothing came up (ie subframe cracking) had been into Darren Woods just before i bought it and again nothing was found. This was around March/April time 2011.
So i have only done about 5k or so in the almost a year i have had it.
Now i have read alot about the M3's and subframe cracking, there is a huge thread on the M3cutters website about places to take the car to get it repaired as these dealers know exactly what they are looking for, and that know how to get BMW to repair it under "goodwill". There are quite a few dealers that have no idea about the problem, even some supposed specialised indy's know nothing about the problem.
Anyway, start of January i had the car in to get the handbrake tightened at my local garage, at the same time, asked him to have a quick look underneath for any cracks. (he said he had to repaired one of the old 328's with this issue)... anyway he found one.
Looked up the cutters list of places that authorise the work. Turns out it was Menzies in Stirling which is a wee trip away.....
Long story short, they looked at it. Send away pictures to BMW UK, who then authorised the repair. 3 weeks later i have the car back good as new and only paid for sundries.
So after speaking with the dealers etc.
The rule BMW UK have is under 10 years old and no mods........... however some dealers have overlooked the mods, just as wheels and spacers, have heard of 1 overlooking springs also..... doubt they will over look superchargers etc.
HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!
Some dealers have been known to check the forums, and i know of 1 occasion where someone was turned down for the repair for returning the car to standard just before taking it into the dealer, and talked about it on the forum and where he was taking the car. (think this was Perth).
The chat is that too many cars are having to get this repair now, its just not a case of a few, there are quite a lot now, doesnt really matter on age, seem to happen to the early cars, just as much as the newest ones and CSL's.
So what i think we are going to see now is 2 tiers of prices for these cars. Ones which have had the full repair (they did do strengthening foam to begin with, all are NOW whole floor repairs) and others that have not.
I wouldnt let it put you off buying one!!!!! they are awesome, awesome cars. However i would buy one that has definatley had the subframe repaired, or one that is a good bit under 10 years old.
PAY MORE for the car that got the repair esp if looking at 2003 and older cars.
There is chat in quite a lot of adverts that say "all clear on subframe" in my opinion its bulls
t, they subframe might appear to be all clear, but so was mine 5k miles and 7 months before. This is also another guy on the cutters website, who actually has full tears in the floor who had his given the all clear 6-7 months ago, (bloke in Ireland, who is having troubles getting it repaired as their dealers dont know).This might seem like a scare story but i really dont mean it to be, im really happy with the car. The car drive like new after the repair!!
I would suggest buying 2004-2005 car, or buying one that has had the whole floor replaced already.
The question i have, how long are BMW going to keep replacing the subframe under goodwill? will they change it to a recall at some point, or just deny all knowledge?
Edited by shibby! on Sunday 5th February 12:10
gaz1234 said:
I have also read that loads of stealers dont actually check it properly....
Check the list out on M3 cutters, these dealers know what they are looking for.Where is actually started to crack in the majority of case is the rear passenger side, where you want to look is round about where the frame bolts onto the body of the car. give it a good clean underneath and look for maybe a line of rust (this will be the crack, and it rusting along the crack), other times it might be much more obvious.
You dont need to drop the whole lot out to find the cracks, they can be found without doing it.
This is the area you should be looking for
This is where i found mine, but on the other side from highlighted.
Also looks like this
enjoy!
extensive respraying on that car. wonder if it has been in an accident and if that has anything to do with the cracking.
had mine checked recently buy a dealer that is checking this issue regularly and was told its very rare on the M3. Don't see they had reason to lie because they happily gave it a good inspection free of charge
had mine checked recently buy a dealer that is checking this issue regularly and was told its very rare on the M3. Don't see they had reason to lie because they happily gave it a good inspection free of charge
DMT84 said:
extensive respraying on that car. wonder if it has been in an accident and if that has anything to do with the cracking.
had mine checked recently buy a dealer that is checking this issue regularly and was told its very rare on the M3. Don't see they had reason to lie because they happily gave it a good inspection free of charge
hmmm....had mine checked recently buy a dealer that is checking this issue regularly and was told its very rare on the M3. Don't see they had reason to lie because they happily gave it a good inspection free of charge
DMT84 said:
had mine checked recently buy a dealer that is checking this issue regularly and was told its very rare on the M3. Don't see they had reason to lie because they happily gave it a good inspection free of charge
My local indie reckons about 70% of the M3's he sees have the issue. He also has no reason to lie as they get no work from the issue and recommend the owner approach BMW. Personally I'd rather see a good indie who knows what he is looking for than a BMW dealer.. When mine was at mprove solutions, I said that mine had been inspected and given the all clear, but they still wanted to inspect it before committing to exactly what was needed. They said they see so many that are cracked but have been given the all clear — largely because it it very difficult to have a thorough look and needs a bit of a strip down to do it properly.
Basically if cracking can be seen without lowering the subframe and removing exhaust and heat shields etc then its pretty far gone.
A bit like rust I guess — once you can see the bubble its been festering away underneath for a long time beforehand
Basically if cracking can be seen without lowering the subframe and removing exhaust and heat shields etc then its pretty far gone.
A bit like rust I guess — once you can see the bubble its been festering away underneath for a long time beforehand
Pig Skill said:
Fury RS said:
Was looking to buy an E46 M3 this time last year, alot of car for a reasonable amount of money I think but eventually decided against it after reading up on numerous threads re; subframe issues and some real bad cracking issues (various pics) on M3 Cutters site. Quite shocking I think that a brand such as BMW has got an underlying fault such as this with the E46 model. I still fancy buying one in the future and I know there are some that have been sold with the subframe done but many that haven't but have had clean bills of health, but for how long? Would really hate to have to part with the cash if it cracked after purchase (just my luck) and BMW wouldn't cover it for their various reasons...
I was in a similar predicament just recently but I came to the issue the other way around; bought the car and then found out about the issues.I've had mine future proofed, but it's cost me
Have a read of my thread, hopefully it may put your mind at rest if you are thinking of buying - as you say they are a hell of a lot of car for the money!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
gaz1234 said:
nasty, and looks like a job and a half.
cant seem to find the dealers on cutters who know about what they are looking for....
[I] - Independentcant seem to find the dealers on cutters who know about what they are looking for....
[D] - Dealer
NORTH
[D] Williams BMW Stockport - www.williamsstockportbmw.co.uk
[D] Dick Lovett Hungerford BMW - www.dicklovetthungerfordbmw.co.uk
[D] Sytner Nottingham - www.sytnernottinghambmw.co.uk/
[D] Calterdon BMW (Inverness) - www.calterdonbmw.co.uk
[D] John Clark BMW (Aberdeen) - www.johnclarkaberdeenbmw.co.uk
[D] John Clark BMW (Dundee) - www.johnclarktaysidebmw.co.uk
[D] Lloyds of Newcastle BMW - www.lloydnewcastlebmw.co.uk
[D] Menzies BMW Stirling - www.menziesbmw.co.uk
SOUTH
[I] Munich Legends in East Sussex - www.munichlegends.co.uk
[D] North Oxford BMW - www.oxfordbmw.co.uk - **DEALT WITH THE MINI DEALERSHIP**
[I] CPC in Amersham, West London - www.cpcpe.com
[I] PMW Ltd, in Chelmsford, Essex - www.pmwltd.co.uk
[D] Chandlers Brighton BMW - www.chandlersbrightonbmw.co.uk
[D] Scotthall BMW in Winchester - www.scotthallhampshirebmw.co.uk/
[D] Broad Oak Canterbury - www.broadoakcanterburybmw.co.uk/
[D] Sytner Chigwell - www.sytnerchigwellbmw.co.uk/
[D] Vines Guildford - www.vinesofguildfordbmw.co.uk
[D] Specialist Cars Bodyshop in Hitchin - http://www.specialistcars.co.uk/contacts.htm
EAST
[D] Murketts BMW in Huntingdon - www.murkettshuntingdon.co.uk
WEST
[I] Trenics in Deeside North Wales - www.trenicsltd.co.uk
[I] Simpson Motorsport in Gloucester - www.simpsonmotorsport
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