dynamometer - how pricey ?
Discussion
I'm tentatively looking at buying an engine dyno. Something in the 400hp range, but not water. Has anyone on here bought one before ? very roughly, how much was it ?
All the dyno suppliers have a "ring us for a quote" policy, which really winds me up - why can't anyone advertise prices any more ?
All the dyno suppliers have a "ring us for a quote" policy, which really winds me up - why can't anyone advertise prices any more ?
If you have to ask ? lol
Probably no prices as there are going to be many variables. If they stated a price, there could be lists of options or conditions for that price.
Plus they probably just dont want the general public knowing. If some is really that interested, they will speak to them
Probably no prices as there are going to be many variables. If they stated a price, there could be lists of options or conditions for that price.
Plus they probably just dont want the general public knowing. If some is really that interested, they will speak to them
The problem is not the cost of the actual dynomometer as such. It is the massive range of possible options for support services that go with it.
For example you need to consider:
1) exhaust extraction
2) intake air
3) cooling air blowers
4) engine coolant and oil heat exchangers
5) dyno heat extraction
6) dyno torque measurement
7) dyno load control
8) data logging and aquistion
9) fuel supply
10) engine mounting rails / system
11) propshaft connections
and the list goes on !
For example you need to consider:
1) exhaust extraction
2) intake air
3) cooling air blowers
4) engine coolant and oil heat exchangers
5) dyno heat extraction
6) dyno torque measurement
7) dyno load control
8) data logging and aquistion
9) fuel supply
10) engine mounting rails / system
11) propshaft connections
and the list goes on !
Max has outlined the issue.
The cost of the waterbrake and test stand is only a small fraction of the total cost.
I have operated dyno's for a living and I am also looking into this at the moment but mine will (initially at least) be for my own stuff and not a service to generate revenue. To this end I will be starting very small, low budget and low-tech with maximum home build and self-fabrication of equipment where possible.
Like all tools, the skill and understanding of the operator will dictate the results. You can spend tens of thousands on your equipment and test cell and still achieve less and be less repeatable than an experienced expert testing in his garage.
If you are purely looking from a business point of view then I would think you would generate far more revenue, with a far smaller outlay and far less hassle with a chassis dyno. If you are working on a wide variety of modern stuff with OEM management systems then definitely a chassis dyno will be far simpler.
How often will you dyno and can you rent dyno time locally instead?
Land & Sea packages are probably the cheapest and from my research seem to have very positive reviews and good customer support.
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno/dyno-price.htm
There's some interesting stuff here:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/home-built-engine-...
http://www.garaget.org/mypage/gallery_image.php?us...
The cost of the waterbrake and test stand is only a small fraction of the total cost.
I have operated dyno's for a living and I am also looking into this at the moment but mine will (initially at least) be for my own stuff and not a service to generate revenue. To this end I will be starting very small, low budget and low-tech with maximum home build and self-fabrication of equipment where possible.
Like all tools, the skill and understanding of the operator will dictate the results. You can spend tens of thousands on your equipment and test cell and still achieve less and be less repeatable than an experienced expert testing in his garage.
If you are purely looking from a business point of view then I would think you would generate far more revenue, with a far smaller outlay and far less hassle with a chassis dyno. If you are working on a wide variety of modern stuff with OEM management systems then definitely a chassis dyno will be far simpler.
How often will you dyno and can you rent dyno time locally instead?
Land & Sea packages are probably the cheapest and from my research seem to have very positive reviews and good customer support.
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno/dyno-price.htm
There's some interesting stuff here:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/home-built-engine-...
http://www.garaget.org/mypage/gallery_image.php?us...
mtrehy said:
Max has outlined the issue.
The cost of the waterbrake and test stand is only a small fraction of the total cost.
I have operated dyno's for a living and I am also looking into this at the moment but mine will (initially at least) be for my own stuff and not a service to generate revenue. To this end I will be starting very small, low budget and low-tech with maximum home build and self-fabrication of equipment where possible.
Like all tools, the skill and understanding of the operator will dictate the results. You can spend tens of thousands on your equipment and test cell and still achieve less and be less repeatable than an experienced expert testing in his garage.
If you are purely looking from a business point of view then I would think you would generate far more revenue, with a far smaller outlay and far less hassle with a chassis dyno. If you are working on a wide variety of modern stuff with OEM management systems then definitely a chassis dyno will be far simpler.
How often will you dyno and can you rent dyno time locally instead?
Land & Sea packages are probably the cheapest and from my research seem to have very positive reviews and good customer support.
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno/dyno-price.htm
There's some interesting stuff here:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/home-built-engine-...
http://www.garaget.org/mypage/gallery_image.php?us...
I'm in exactly the same place as you....!The cost of the waterbrake and test stand is only a small fraction of the total cost.
I have operated dyno's for a living and I am also looking into this at the moment but mine will (initially at least) be for my own stuff and not a service to generate revenue. To this end I will be starting very small, low budget and low-tech with maximum home build and self-fabrication of equipment where possible.
Like all tools, the skill and understanding of the operator will dictate the results. You can spend tens of thousands on your equipment and test cell and still achieve less and be less repeatable than an experienced expert testing in his garage.
If you are purely looking from a business point of view then I would think you would generate far more revenue, with a far smaller outlay and far less hassle with a chassis dyno. If you are working on a wide variety of modern stuff with OEM management systems then definitely a chassis dyno will be far simpler.
How often will you dyno and can you rent dyno time locally instead?
Land & Sea packages are probably the cheapest and from my research seem to have very positive reviews and good customer support.
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno/dyno-price.htm
There's some interesting stuff here:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/home-built-engine-...
http://www.garaget.org/mypage/gallery_image.php?us...
some really good links there, thanks.
Edited by 2woody on Monday 6th February 10:47
I nearly bought a used SF set-up recently but fell through for a number of reasons. If I had some money lying around I'd probably start off with a $10k set-up from land & sea and build on it as required.
Waterbrakes are extremely simple bits of kit and no reason at all why someone with basic machining skills couldn't make something on a par with a professional brake. A test stand is simple fab and weld. You could get by with a manual load control - I've tested late IRL V8's and used manual control for the vast majority of it.
The tough part is the data acquisition. If you are only needing to read the basics - torque, rpm, air/fuel then it I reckon you could get that setup simply enough and then add to it as per your requirements as you learn. You could get an off-the-shelf data acquisition package and hardware for a couple of grand if you wanted to go that route.
This dude in australia has built something very basic and functional. Watching him stand adjacent to the flywheel and driveshaft makes me shiver - he might be dead by now! I guess you can make as much noise as you like overthere and not upset anyone...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1BNNeZn3FE&fea...
Anyway, that's just food for though and possibly another thread as and when I get around to building one...
Waterbrakes are extremely simple bits of kit and no reason at all why someone with basic machining skills couldn't make something on a par with a professional brake. A test stand is simple fab and weld. You could get by with a manual load control - I've tested late IRL V8's and used manual control for the vast majority of it.
The tough part is the data acquisition. If you are only needing to read the basics - torque, rpm, air/fuel then it I reckon you could get that setup simply enough and then add to it as per your requirements as you learn. You could get an off-the-shelf data acquisition package and hardware for a couple of grand if you wanted to go that route.
This dude in australia has built something very basic and functional. Watching him stand adjacent to the flywheel and driveshaft makes me shiver - he might be dead by now! I guess you can make as much noise as you like overthere and not upset anyone...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1BNNeZn3FE&fea...
Anyway, that's just food for though and possibly another thread as and when I get around to building one...
Datalogging is no longer a costly option!
If you know a little bit about computers than under £200 of kit gets you basic high speed (~10ksps) logging across about 16 channels. For example:
http://www.picotech.com/data-logging-software.html
For logging a torque sensor and a speed sensor thats easily enough capability!
If you know a little bit about computers than under £200 of kit gets you basic high speed (~10ksps) logging across about 16 channels. For example:
http://www.picotech.com/data-logging-software.html
For logging a torque sensor and a speed sensor thats easily enough capability!
mtrehy said:
Holy crap.Surely a propshaft isn't rated to run at engine RPM? - Imagine if it failed!
Coincidentally, I've used Picotech logging for other stuff before and was going to use that as the number one option if required.
I'm looking at having the basic information presented the "old-fashioned" way - so thats a separate circuit for engine speed, dyno take-off load and warnings, etc.
Also, pretty much all of the work will be with Megasquirt, so theres logging and vital parameter display there.
Also, I've got loads of space and the nearest neighbour (who works away) is more than a mile away.
I've been researching the innards of water brakes just recently, but Land & Marine could be a good option instead.
I'm looking at having the basic information presented the "old-fashioned" way - so thats a separate circuit for engine speed, dyno take-off load and warnings, etc.
Also, pretty much all of the work will be with Megasquirt, so theres logging and vital parameter display there.
Also, I've got loads of space and the nearest neighbour (who works away) is more than a mile away.
I've been researching the innards of water brakes just recently, but Land & Marine could be a good option instead.
I use this with either nistune or write my own app. using the lookup tables from sensor manufacturers.
found here.
http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/io8.shtml
We also use aim evo4 with smartycam made into a portable unit.
I'm working on being able to use the IO8 with this stuff.
http://www.plxkiwi.com/
found here.
http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/io8.shtml
We also use aim evo4 with smartycam made into a portable unit.
I'm working on being able to use the IO8 with this stuff.
http://www.plxkiwi.com/
Edited by HowlerMonkey on Tuesday 7th February 20:35
Hey Howler,
that's interesting - and cheap!
I heard that you need high speed digital for reading RPM - I don't think picolog can do this?
I'm right at the beginning of my data acquisition learning curve. I don't know anything about nistune but presumably it doesn't display torque?
I'd also be interested to hear about thermocouple reading as the output is non-linear so not sure how you would write a conversion in the data acquisition.
I'd be very interested to hear more about your setup - what are you using this for - engine dyno? chassis dyno?
Cheers.
that's interesting - and cheap!
I heard that you need high speed digital for reading RPM - I don't think picolog can do this?
I'm right at the beginning of my data acquisition learning curve. I don't know anything about nistune but presumably it doesn't display torque?
I'd also be interested to hear about thermocouple reading as the output is non-linear so not sure how you would write a conversion in the data acquisition.
I'd be very interested to hear more about your setup - what are you using this for - engine dyno? chassis dyno?
Cheers.
Nistune is a nissan tuning package that also has functionality to display data from that device.
If you don't have a nissan, it's a bit of an unnecessary expense but.......... I'm sure there are a few other tuning packages that also has the ability to display data from the pictured acquisition hardware.
You might find that whatever tuning package is suited for your car manufacturer choice can also display data from it.
If you don't have a nissan, it's a bit of an unnecessary expense but.......... I'm sure there are a few other tuning packages that also has the ability to display data from the pictured acquisition hardware.
You might find that whatever tuning package is suited for your car manufacturer choice can also display data from it.
Hi Dave
I was looking up old threads on engine dynos as I have one to sell and I came across your post talking about your desire to purchase a water brake engine dyno either this year or next.
Brand New Old Stock Clayton CAM-250 water brake engine dynamometer with digital instrumentation. 8000 rpm max. 600ft/lbs and 250 bhp. Built in 1988 but never used. Complete with Clayton calibration equipment and manuals for the dyno and the dro.
Peter
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