Chassis refurburbed but returned with damaged powder coat
Discussion
I'm known on the S forum more than this part, but wished to gain the opinion and wide knowledge from all of you.
I'm in the middle of a body off resto and sent the chassis off to be blasted, welded then powder coated. It finally returned this evening in the dark two weeks behind the agreed delivery schedule. I was given a hand getting it back into my garage, then the first delivery driver left and the other helped to position it and brought in the other parts. This was when, under the garage light, I noticed numerous chips to the powder coat. Some of these are in very obvious positions within the engine bay. I pointed these out to the remaining delivery driver which he acknowledged was not correct and that they may be spot repaired.
This is obviously not acceptable. So before going to speak to the garage in the morning, the main question I have is, can the powder coat layer be repaired leaving no long term weak spots with a perfect colour match. I don't want to be having to do this job again for a long time!! Or should I be asking for the whole chassis and associated affected parts to be re-powder coated?
I'm in the middle of a body off resto and sent the chassis off to be blasted, welded then powder coated. It finally returned this evening in the dark two weeks behind the agreed delivery schedule. I was given a hand getting it back into my garage, then the first delivery driver left and the other helped to position it and brought in the other parts. This was when, under the garage light, I noticed numerous chips to the powder coat. Some of these are in very obvious positions within the engine bay. I pointed these out to the remaining delivery driver which he acknowledged was not correct and that they may be spot repaired.
This is obviously not acceptable. So before going to speak to the garage in the morning, the main question I have is, can the powder coat layer be repaired leaving no long term weak spots with a perfect colour match. I don't want to be having to do this job again for a long time!! Or should I be asking for the whole chassis and associated affected parts to be re-powder coated?
IMO powder coating is a hard paint finish and susceptible to cracking with chassis/suspension flexing. In particular the outriggers. I would double coat the outriggers with a good thick enamel or similar paint. Then waxoil on top before body on. Cover front and rear outrigger parts exposed in front and back wheel arches with some rubber flap off cuts stuck on with silicon.
Hi. From what you have described the fault is with one of several things. Before I go further I am in the powder coating business but not here to promote my company, rather to be in a advisory position and promote good practice.
In any trade or profession as we all know their are the very good, the O.K and the poor down to cowboys. Now I am not saying who ever carried out the work are one or none of these.
I read lots of blogs on problems with powder coating, and they normally make my blood boil. The fact is powder coating when applied as it should be will do the job it is made for and give a good pleasing finish.
Research is the way and never use a third party.
The work should be carried out to the following standard.
Remove all old grease oil.
Blast clean removing all old paint & rust
Blank off or mask off threads and bearings.
Apply a coat of zinc phosphate primer (within one hour of blasting) of at least 60 microns and semi cure. Then apply a polyester finish coat of around 75microns and then fully cure, this helps cross bonding with the blasted surface, and the two layers of powder.,,, JOB DONE.
When powder coat chips off it normally means it has been under-cured by this it should reach a temp of 180d c that is the inner core of the work not just the outer skin, and baked for at least 10 to 15 mins. Other problems are poor prep, (was it blast cleaned?) work, cheap materials.
When polyester powders or highbred powder are used as they should be applied the finish will last for years without any colour fade. Colour fade will take place if apoxy powders are used, these are not UV stable unlike polyesters that are UV stable and not made for exterior use.
There are better products other than Polyester powders for under body or vulnerable parts. Plascoat is our preferred option, as it lays thicker and is practicably bomb proof, acids, road salts, petroleum products you name it it can cope with the every day muck and rubbish our rubbish uk roads can through at us.
Anyway sorry to go-on but thats me done for now. Hope this helps.
MSB.
Trevor
In any trade or profession as we all know their are the very good, the O.K and the poor down to cowboys. Now I am not saying who ever carried out the work are one or none of these.
I read lots of blogs on problems with powder coating, and they normally make my blood boil. The fact is powder coating when applied as it should be will do the job it is made for and give a good pleasing finish.
Research is the way and never use a third party.
The work should be carried out to the following standard.
Remove all old grease oil.
Blast clean removing all old paint & rust
Blank off or mask off threads and bearings.
Apply a coat of zinc phosphate primer (within one hour of blasting) of at least 60 microns and semi cure. Then apply a polyester finish coat of around 75microns and then fully cure, this helps cross bonding with the blasted surface, and the two layers of powder.,,, JOB DONE.
When powder coat chips off it normally means it has been under-cured by this it should reach a temp of 180d c that is the inner core of the work not just the outer skin, and baked for at least 10 to 15 mins. Other problems are poor prep, (was it blast cleaned?) work, cheap materials.
When polyester powders or highbred powder are used as they should be applied the finish will last for years without any colour fade. Colour fade will take place if apoxy powders are used, these are not UV stable unlike polyesters that are UV stable and not made for exterior use.
There are better products other than Polyester powders for under body or vulnerable parts. Plascoat is our preferred option, as it lays thicker and is practicably bomb proof, acids, road salts, petroleum products you name it it can cope with the every day muck and rubbish our rubbish uk roads can through at us.
Anyway sorry to go-on but thats me done for now. Hope this helps.
MSB.
Trevor
The Big G said:
I'm known on the S forum more than this part, but wished to gain the opinion and wide knowledge from all of you.
I'm in the middle of a body off resto and sent the chassis off to be blasted, welded then powder coated. It finally returned this evening in the dark two weeks behind the agreed delivery schedule. I was given a hand getting it back into my garage, then the first delivery driver left and the other helped to position it and brought in the other parts. This was when, under the garage light, I noticed numerous chips to the powder coat. Some of these are in very obvious positions within the engine bay. I pointed these out to the remaining delivery driver which he acknowledged was not correct and that they may be spot repaired.
This is obviously not acceptable. So before going to speak to the garage in the morning, the main question I have is, can the powder coat layer be repaired leaving no long term weak spots with a perfect colour match. I don't want to be having to do this job again for a long time!! Or should I be asking for the whole chassis and associated affected parts to be re-powder coated?
I'm in the middle of a body off resto and sent the chassis off to be blasted, welded then powder coated. It finally returned this evening in the dark two weeks behind the agreed delivery schedule. I was given a hand getting it back into my garage, then the first delivery driver left and the other helped to position it and brought in the other parts. This was when, under the garage light, I noticed numerous chips to the powder coat. Some of these are in very obvious positions within the engine bay. I pointed these out to the remaining delivery driver which he acknowledged was not correct and that they may be spot repaired.
This is obviously not acceptable. So before going to speak to the garage in the morning, the main question I have is, can the powder coat layer be repaired leaving no long term weak spots with a perfect colour match. I don't want to be having to do this job again for a long time!! Or should I be asking for the whole chassis and associated affected parts to be re-powder coated?
Would have to say that in my experience powder coat does chip fairly easily.you have to be very careful with it,be very careful when putting in wishbones and bolts as these areas will be tight if the coating is thick.Should not come chipped im my opinon and i would talk to the coaters asap.hope all goes well chap
Hi
Powder coating will not crack unless in is applied incorrectly, we have powder coated chassis, springs outriggers and god knows what else and to date we have never had any problems. Although good advice re the wax oil.
Powder coating will not crack unless in is applied incorrectly, we have powder coated chassis, springs outriggers and god knows what else and to date we have never had any problems. Although good advice re the wax oil.
EGB said:
IMO powder coating is a hard paint finish and susceptible to cracking with chassis/suspension flexing. In particular the outriggers. I would double coat the outriggers with a good thick enamel or similar paint. Then waxoil on top before body on. Cover front and rear outrigger parts exposed in front and back wheel arches with some rubber flap off cuts stuck on with silicon.
If powder coat cracks on bolting up you should take it back to complain.
spongy said:
Would have to say that in my experience powder coat does chip fairly easily.you have to be very careful with it,be very careful when putting in wishbones and bolts as these areas will be tight if the coating is thick.Should not come chipped im my opinon and i would talk to the coaters asap.hope all goes well chap
MSBPC said:
You won't win the argument with some on here!!There are powder coaters and powder coaters, You previous posts suggest that you are a guy that knows what he is doing. My powder coater up here in the NE similarly knows what he is doing....Proper powder coating in my experience is as you say virtually bomb proof... When you look at some of the patented rust prevention cures on here your ears will start to bleed with the concentration.
As ever a crap job with poor prep, materials, baking and curing times will look and last as long as the time and effort put into it.
I love powder coating.
I just wish the TVR Fraternity would realise that TVR Powder coating at the factory was carried out with second hand old plant, on rusty unprimed tubes in a very slap dash fashion.
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 6th February 23:14
Well said Sir,
TVR paint work from the factory is not that good, we have worked on more than just a few of these and speak from first hand experience. We are confident with our work so much so we warranty our work for 5 years. Just a little more than TVR did.
The moral of the story is find someone who knows what they are doing. Its only cowboys that screw it up for the good companies. Tared with the same brush.
Here to help.
MSB
TVR paint work from the factory is not that good, we have worked on more than just a few of these and speak from first hand experience. We are confident with our work so much so we warranty our work for 5 years. Just a little more than TVR did.
The moral of the story is find someone who knows what they are doing. Its only cowboys that screw it up for the good companies. Tared with the same brush.
Here to help.
MSB
heightswitch said:
You won't win the argument with some on here!!
There are powder coaters and powder coaters, You previous posts suggest that you are a guy that knows what he is doing. My powder coater up here in the NE similarly knows what he is doing....Proper powder coating in my experience is as you say virtually bomb proof... When you look at some of the patented rust prevention cures on here your ears will start to bleed with the concentration.
As ever a crap job with poor prep, materials, baking and curing times will look and last as long as the time and effort put into it.
I love powder coating.
I just wish the TVR Fraternity would realise that TVR Powder coating at the factory was carried out with second hand old plant, on rusty unprimed tubes in a very slap dash fashion.
N.
There are powder coaters and powder coaters, You previous posts suggest that you are a guy that knows what he is doing. My powder coater up here in the NE similarly knows what he is doing....Proper powder coating in my experience is as you say virtually bomb proof... When you look at some of the patented rust prevention cures on here your ears will start to bleed with the concentration.
As ever a crap job with poor prep, materials, baking and curing times will look and last as long as the time and effort put into it.
I love powder coating.
I just wish the TVR Fraternity would realise that TVR Powder coating at the factory was carried out with second hand old plant, on rusty unprimed tubes in a very slap dash fashion.
N.
Any thanks for the advise and information. As I expected, and the reason I chose to powder coat, is that it is a very resilient finish when done correctly and not on the cheap. Unlike the original factory affairs! Good to hear that it should not chip easily and is probably due to under baking. Now to go to the garage and see what they suggest.
Thanks again
Thanks again
Bodge it and scarper at it again 
.....when we people ever learn 
I would suggest you get someone who really knows what they are doing(see previous posts above)to inspect the whole chassis job before accepting it, as you point out you don't want to be removing the body again in 6 months time
Bodders
.....when we people ever learn I would suggest you get someone who really knows what they are doing(see previous posts above)to inspect the whole chassis job before accepting it, as you point out you don't want to be removing the body again in 6 months time
Bodders
Bodmin said:
Bodge it and scarper at it again .....when we people ever learn
I would suggest you get someone who really knows what they are doing(see previous posts above)to inspect the whole chassis job before accepting it, as you point out you don't want to be removing the body again in 6 months time
Bodders
The garage doing the work is a well respected TVR specialist. A couple of people have had bad experiences with them a couple of years ago but they have always looked after me well, and I have received good recommendations for the quality of their work. .....when we people ever learn I would suggest you get someone who really knows what they are doing(see previous posts above)to inspect the whole chassis job before accepting it, as you point out you don't want to be removing the body again in 6 months time
Bodders
For the price paid I seriously hope that it is not being bodged as I will not be happy and will be looking to take things further. Just need to speak to them to see what the next step is and if I am happy with it
Pleased to be of help, If you boys out there need any further advice please feel free to contact me.
.
Good luck.
ETA
Sorry but please do not conduct business on the forums.
.Good luck.
ETA
Sorry but please do not conduct business on the forums.
The Big G said:
The garage doing the work is a well respected TVR specialist. A couple of people have had bad experiences with them a couple of years ago but they have always looked after me well, and I have received good recommendations for the quality of their work.
For the price paid I seriously hope that it is not being bodged as I will not be happy and will be looking to take things further. Just need to speak to them to see what the next step is and if I am happy with it
For the price paid I seriously hope that it is not being bodged as I will not be happy and will be looking to take things further. Just need to speak to them to see what the next step is and if I am happy with it
Edited by Big Al. on Thursday 9th February 11:16
The Big G said:
The garage doing the work is a well respected TVR specialist. A couple of people have had bad experiences with them a couple of years ago but they have always looked after me well, and I have received good recommendations for the quality of their work.
For the price paid I seriously hope that it is not being bodged as I will not be happy and will be looking to take things further. Just need to speak to them to see what the next step is and if I am happy with it
I know who you are refering too which exactly why you should get a proffesional company to inspect the powdercoating and not just the damaged areas either.For the price paid I seriously hope that it is not being bodged as I will not be happy and will be looking to take things further. Just need to speak to them to see what the next step is and if I am happy with it
Bodders
Waxoyl over the top of a freshly powdercoated chassis is a big NO NO.It can hide all kinds of future problems. Keep it bright and shiny, get underneath it during the winter and clean and inspect it, touch up as required, but do not slap waxoyl all over it.
The powdercoat/paint dilema is one i had a few years back when i did a full bodyoff chassis refurb. I chose the 2 pack paint system.The chassis after welding was shot and bead blasted, then painted almost straight after with 2 pack epoxy primer, followed by 5 more alternate coloured epoxy primer coats, finished with a bright red machine enamel, and a final clear laquer coat for stone chip protection. Three years on and with my inspect and touch up regime every winter, it still looks as good as new.The main area for touch up isnt behind the front wheels as you would expect, its been on the lower front wishbones of all places.Powdercoat is an excellent way to ensure good even coverage, and an easy way to achieve an excellent finish. For me, how it stands up in the long term, and once damaged how easy it is for water etc to get under the powdercoat, was a deciding factor to paint. This is my personal choice, but on a painted chassis it is much easier to repair any chip damage.
The original TVR powdercoating was crap, none of the welds were cleaned and anybody doing a bodylift/chassis refurb will find rust at every weld, as well as the usual outrigger rot.As as been stated earlier, if the powdercoat route is for you, do not skimp on this, as a crap job will only end with the same problem as TVR created at the factory all those years ago,
The powdercoat/paint dilema is one i had a few years back when i did a full bodyoff chassis refurb. I chose the 2 pack paint system.The chassis after welding was shot and bead blasted, then painted almost straight after with 2 pack epoxy primer, followed by 5 more alternate coloured epoxy primer coats, finished with a bright red machine enamel, and a final clear laquer coat for stone chip protection. Three years on and with my inspect and touch up regime every winter, it still looks as good as new.The main area for touch up isnt behind the front wheels as you would expect, its been on the lower front wishbones of all places.Powdercoat is an excellent way to ensure good even coverage, and an easy way to achieve an excellent finish. For me, how it stands up in the long term, and once damaged how easy it is for water etc to get under the powdercoat, was a deciding factor to paint. This is my personal choice, but on a painted chassis it is much easier to repair any chip damage.
The original TVR powdercoating was crap, none of the welds were cleaned and anybody doing a bodylift/chassis refurb will find rust at every weld, as well as the usual outrigger rot.As as been stated earlier, if the powdercoat route is for you, do not skimp on this, as a crap job will only end with the same problem as TVR created at the factory all those years ago,
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