Lip Sync issue

[Toilet Duck]

Morning all,

I've recently bought a new TV/AMP/Blu Ray player and am having trouble with the audio being slightly out of sync with the video.

The telly is a Panasonic 50VT30, the AMP is an Onkyo tx-nr609, and the Blu Ray player is a Panasonic BDT310.

The audio is slightly BEHIND the video. Within the menus for both the AMP and Blu Ray player, there is the option to add audio delay in small increments. However, I need to speed up the audio, not delay it. The menus only allow delaying of the audio (which just increases the problem).

Why doesn't the hardware allow me to speed up the audio, only delay it? It seems stupid. Is there anything else I can try? I've tried switching off the "auto audio/video sync" setting in the AMP (in case that was somehow causing problems) but it makes no difference. The only source I currently have is Blu Ray (there is no aerial/skybox etc). Some discs its barely noticeable, others (Training Day for example) its so bad I find it unwatchable.

Any help greatfully received

Edited by Toilet Duck on Tuesday 14th February 10:53

[headcase]

To speed up the audio would require time travel but I dont think that is included on most amps, what you need is to delay the video. Its usually caused by one or all of the devices knowing that audio is processed quicker than the video so it adds a delay without any input from you, this in itself sounds wonderful but if you have more than one device doing it then you end up with way to much non adjustable delay. There is a similar thing happening on ITV1 HD, currently there is no cure for it.
You can try the different ways of wiring it all up. BluRay - Amp - TV Using HDMI, then try BluRay - TV with HDMI and BluRay - Amp using an optical. You may find one way works better than the other.

[s1962a]

Doesn't your Onkyo have an automatic lipsync function? My Yamaha 667 does, and I don't seem to have these issues. I have a projector connected to the av amp, and a hdmi splitter in between. All add some latency to the process I would have thought.

[Road2Ruin]

This is often caused when the video and audio come from a different feed. I don't know your amp but is the audio coming fro the HDMI as well as the video? If not that could be the issue. Check the setup up on the bluray.

[Toilet Duck]

Many thanks for all the replies

headcase said:

You can try the different ways of wiring it all up. BluRay - Amp - TV Using HDMI, then try BluRay - TV with HDMI and BluRay - Amp using an optical. You may find one way works better than the other.

I'll buy an optical cable and give that a go, cheers. Out of curiosity, what gives the "best" audio quality; optical or HDMI from blu ray player to AMP, or is there no difference?

s1962a said:

Doesn't your Onkyo have an automatic lipsync function?

Yes mate, I've already tried that.

Toilet Duck said:

I've tried switching off the "auto audio/video sync" setting in the AMP (in case that was somehow causing problems) but it makes no difference.

Road2Ruin said:

This is often caused when the video and audio come from a different feed. I don't know your amp but is the audio coming fro the HDMI as well as the video? If not that could be the issue. Check the setup up on the bluray.

All my connectors are HDMI. It goes HDMI from the blu ray player into the AMP, then HDMI from the AMP into the TV.

On my parents blu ray player (its a sony one) you can delay the video to make the audio lag behind. If I can't fix this I may end up changing the blu ray player to one that has that facility. However, I'll be somewhat dissapointed if the only way to "fix" this is to buy a different blu ray player that has more adjustability.

[Road2Ruin]

If what you say above is correct then it is going to be an audio decoding issue. Check the audio output settings from the bluray, check that the terminals all support ARC (manual recommends using an optical cable if it does not). Check that if you connect the Bluray to the TV directly the issue dissapears! If it does then something is set up wrong.

[headcase]

The way you have it 'should' work, that is the way it has been designed but of course there can always be some compatibility issues between brands. The main difference between audio Via HDMI and via optical is that optical supports DD5.1 where HDMI supports the newer formats, so unless your amp does too then your not going to miss out.

[Toilet Duck]

Road2Ruin said:

If what you say above is correct then it is going to be an audio decoding issue. Check the audio output settings from the bluray, check that the terminals all support ARC (manual recommends using an optical cable if it does not). Check that if you connect the Bluray to the TV directly the issue dissapears! If it does then something is set up wrong.

headcase said:

The way you have it 'should' work, that is the way it has been designed but of course there can always be some compatibility issues between brands. The main difference between audio Via HDMI and via optical is that optical supports DD5.1 where HDMI supports the newer formats, so unless your amp does too then your not going to miss out.

Cheers for the additional info chaps

Right, I'm not particularly au fait with all the techie jargon in the menus of my Blu Ray player, does the following look set correctly? In all honesty I don't know what half of it means

I haven't had a chance to try directly connecting the blu ray player to the TV via HDMI (and bypass the AMP), I will try and do that tomorrow.

Edited by Toilet Duck on Wednesday 15th February 22:54

[StormLoaded]

Toilet Duck said:

Morning all,

I've recently bought a new TV/AMP/Blu Ray player and am having trouble with the audio being slightly out of sync with the video.

The telly is a Panasonic 50VT30, the AMP is an Onkyo tx-nr609, and the Blu Ray player is a Panasonic BDT310.

The audio is slightly BEHIND the video. Within the menus for both the AMP and Blu Ray player, there is the option to add audio delay in small increments. However, I need to speed up the audio, not delay it. The menus only allow delaying of the audio (which just increases the problem).

Why doesn't the hardware allow me to speed up the audio, only delay it? It seems stupid. Is there anything else I can try? I've tried switching off the "auto audio/video sync" setting in the AMP (in case that was somehow causing problems) but it makes no difference. The only source I currently have is Blu Ray (there is no aerial/skybox etc). Some discs its barely noticeable, others (Training Day for example) its so bad I find it unwatchable.

Any help greatfully received

Edited by Toilet Duck on Tuesday 14th February 10:53

i know this sounds silly, but have you tried to keep going past 0ms delay?.. my onkyo amp im certain goes to a -30ms delay, basically i think going into negative numbers doesnt "delay" the audio, but instead delays the video from its HDMI out..[obviously no good for gaming though, but movie watching is ok] unless that was my previous amp, but im sure its the onkyo that has an audio "delay" range of -30ms to +100ms.

[tdm34]

Toilet Duck said:

Edited by Toilet Duck on Wednesday 15th February 22:54

Also switch your "BD-Video Secondary Audio" setting to off, as you're basically listening to a "converted sound codec"
as no BD player can do lossless audio and secondary audio at the same time

and as it's being converted it may be adding to your problems.

[tdm34]

Also don't forget to set the 24p setting to on as well.

[Toilet Duck]

StormLoaded said:

i know this sounds silly, but have you tried to keep going past 0ms delay?.. my onkyo amp im certain goes to a -30ms delay,

Yes I've tried that (I tried again after reading your post just to be sure ). It goes from 0ms up to about 800ms or 850ms in 10ms increments. If I try going the other way past/below 0ms, nothing happens. I don't understand why the AMP doesn't allow you to go below this e.g. -20ms etc. My parents Sony blu ray player does. Do you know which model your Onkyo is?

tdm34 said:

Also switch your "BD-Video Secondary Audio" setting to off, as you're basically listening to a "converted sound codec"
as no BD player can do lossless audio and secondary audio at the same time

and as it's being converted it may be adding to your problems.

tdm34 said:

Also don't forget to set the 24p setting to on as well.

Cheers for the advice, I will change both of these settings!

[headcase]

Toilet Duck said:

I don't understand why the AMP doesn't allow you to go below this e.g. -20ms etc. My parents Sony blu ray player does. Do you know which model your Onkyo is?

That is because the audio is produced NOW, you can delay it but you cant make it any earlier than NOW (is like wanting the lights to turn on before you pressed the switch). The Sony you mention may well display -20ms but what it will be doing is producing the audio NOW (that is the earliest you can possibly produce the audio) but delaying the picture instead, that is the only way it can possibly work.

[Toilet Duck]

headcase said:

Toilet Duck said:

I don't understand why the AMP doesn't allow you to go below this e.g. -20ms etc. My parents Sony blu ray player does. Do you know which model your Onkyo is?

That is because the audio is produced NOW, you can delay it but you cant make it any earlier than NOW (is like wanting the lights to turn on before you pressed the switch). The Sony you mention may well display -20ms but what it will be doing is producing the audio NOW (that is the earliest you can possibly produce the audio) but delaying the picture instead, that is the only way it can possibly work.

I think you misunderstood me Thanks to posts in this thread, I now understand how the delay works, and that no system can beat the laws of time travel and physics etc. All I meant was, if my parents Sony blu ray player can somehow "speed up" audio via the user menu (even though its doing it by holding back the video and not touching the audio), I don't see why my Panasonic blu ray player or Onkyo AMP can't do the same



Well, I tried changing the settings in the options menus as suggested above, and unfortunately it didn't make any difference. However, I tried connecting the blu ray player directly to the TV via HDMI and the lip sync issue is EXACTLY the same coming out of the TV speakers. I used "Training Day" as my test disc as this was particularly bad when going via the AMP, and its exactly the same. Does this mean that the delay could be due to the TV taking time to processing the video? If so, is there a fix? I assume that the AMP can now be considered innocent?

Unfortunately, because I've noticed this problem, every time I put a film on I'm instantly looking for lip sync issues. I'm sure that most people wouldn't notice on most of the films I've tried (other than Training Day) unless I pointed it out, but its spoiling my enjoyment as I can't help but look for it now I know there is an issue.

[headcase]

The only thing you can try is going back into your TV picture settings and turn everything to OFF. Its natural to assume that Auto is the best option but really OFF is better as any 'picture enhancement' generally does the opposite.