968 Sport to 996?
Discussion
With 996 values being what they are, I'm contemplating switching from my 968 Sport (Janspeed exhaust and a few other goodies) to a 3.4 996, simply to attain a bit more power and straight line speed.
But, will I miss the "involvement" and "driveability" of the 968 and the fact that it's always a talking point in a way that a 996 won't be? Narrow body 996s are also pretty dull to look at without an aero kit imo.
I haven't driven a 996 but I have a free weekend in a couple of weeks time so am hoping to rectify that.
I currently do roughly two trackdays per year in the 968.
Any thoughts?
But, will I miss the "involvement" and "driveability" of the 968 and the fact that it's always a talking point in a way that a 996 won't be? Narrow body 996s are also pretty dull to look at without an aero kit imo.
I haven't driven a 996 but I have a free weekend in a couple of weeks time so am hoping to rectify that.
I currently do roughly two trackdays per year in the 968.
Any thoughts?
I took a 968 ClubSport as part-ex against my 996 C4S. Prior to that I had a 1982 SC and a 1994 993. I was thoroughly uninspired by 4S. If you want a quick, competent sportscar then you can't go far wrong with a 996. If you want a Porsche 911 then you're barking up the wrong tree.
I bought the 4S as I'm doing a lot more miles recently and thought it would be a good compromise between everyday driveability and having that special 911 feel. When I owned the 993 I said that I didn't think the 996 was a proper 911, but I went against that and bought one anyway. It was a mistake and I was right, it's not a proper 911. That's not to say they're not good cars, just that they don't feel (to me) a proper Porsche. They lack that sense of occassion, that "hewn from granite" feel and they just didn't raise the kind of smiles available at much lower speeds in my older pork. I know these are all tired clichés, but they exist for a reason.
Before I was offered the ClubSport I'd never really considered a front engined Porsche, largely because "they're not a 911." I wasn't expecting disappointment, but that's because I wasn't expecting anything really. How wrong was I! I can't believe how balanced, confidence inspiring and fun it is at much more pedestrian speeds than the 996. It has that rock solid feel to everything, that Porsche essence that has been lost since the introduction of the 9*6 series. I'm now having a massive internal quandry about what to do.
The original plan was to put it straight up for sale again and get a 3.2 Carrera for a project I've had in mind for a while, but I'm really rather attached to the CS. I've even gone off the idea of supercharging it as the more I drive it the more I realise that it's pretty perfect as is. Yes they're not rocketships, but they're not meant to be. Reading Monkey's recent review of the GT86 brought to mind exactly what's right about these cars. So it doesn't tear your face off when you launch it down the next straight section of B-road, well, so what? The engine is a lovely fizzy lump that loves to be revved, but it's the corners that make you smile. Any idiot can plant the righthand pedal, but no matter what power you've got it soon becomes boring if you can't play at the limits.
If only the 968 was a 911... That said, to me it's infinitely more a Porsche than the 996 will ever be.
I bought the 4S as I'm doing a lot more miles recently and thought it would be a good compromise between everyday driveability and having that special 911 feel. When I owned the 993 I said that I didn't think the 996 was a proper 911, but I went against that and bought one anyway. It was a mistake and I was right, it's not a proper 911. That's not to say they're not good cars, just that they don't feel (to me) a proper Porsche. They lack that sense of occassion, that "hewn from granite" feel and they just didn't raise the kind of smiles available at much lower speeds in my older pork. I know these are all tired clichés, but they exist for a reason.
Before I was offered the ClubSport I'd never really considered a front engined Porsche, largely because "they're not a 911." I wasn't expecting disappointment, but that's because I wasn't expecting anything really. How wrong was I! I can't believe how balanced, confidence inspiring and fun it is at much more pedestrian speeds than the 996. It has that rock solid feel to everything, that Porsche essence that has been lost since the introduction of the 9*6 series. I'm now having a massive internal quandry about what to do.
The original plan was to put it straight up for sale again and get a 3.2 Carrera for a project I've had in mind for a while, but I'm really rather attached to the CS. I've even gone off the idea of supercharging it as the more I drive it the more I realise that it's pretty perfect as is. Yes they're not rocketships, but they're not meant to be. Reading Monkey's recent review of the GT86 brought to mind exactly what's right about these cars. So it doesn't tear your face off when you launch it down the next straight section of B-road, well, so what? The engine is a lovely fizzy lump that loves to be revved, but it's the corners that make you smile. Any idiot can plant the righthand pedal, but no matter what power you've got it soon becomes boring if you can't play at the limits.
If only the 968 was a 911... That said, to me it's infinitely more a Porsche than the 996 will ever be.
Well my first 911 was an early 996 3.4 with the factory sports pack - LSD, lowered, traction control, and 18" wheels I think.
Having previously had a 944S2 which was great, I immediatley took to the 911 and thought it was a brilliant fast involving drive. Granted the interior build is maybe not up there with the 944/968, but it was pretty smart in it's day I think.
Search out the road tests from when it first came out, universal high praise as I remember and not without reason.
If you find a good one with the factory sports pk - it was quite common - I doubt you'll be disappointed, or feel it isn't a real 911.
Having previously had a 944S2 which was great, I immediatley took to the 911 and thought it was a brilliant fast involving drive. Granted the interior build is maybe not up there with the 944/968, but it was pretty smart in it's day I think.
Search out the road tests from when it first came out, universal high praise as I remember and not without reason.
If you find a good one with the factory sports pk - it was quite common - I doubt you'll be disappointed, or feel it isn't a real 911.
LordHaveMurci said:
I have 3.4 C2 Coupe, I don't think they lack involvement or driveability, quite the reverse.
As you say, with prices the way they are it's hard not to!
What he said.As you say, with prices the way they are it's hard not to!
I had a 3.4 for 4 years, before moving onto a Turbo...... Only did that because, erm, well you just have to don't you
Great car, did numerous trackways. 3.4 and the C4S both Evo car of the year winners and winners of many other group tests. So involvement etc ain't an issue.
Best thing to do is get out and drive a few.
Don't get me wrong, they're tremendous cars. Had the C4S been my first 911 I imagine I would have loved it and embraced it, but to me it felt like a modern imitation as opposed to a genuine Porsche. I agree, the OP should get out there and try a few. I'm well aware that my interpretation of things is probably skewed to that of many owners, but having had experience of both cars I thought I'd throw it out there.
I have a facelift 996 c2 with thefactory sports suspension pack, sports seats and sports exhaust. I find it a great, involving and rewarding drive. I really enjoy driving it for pretty much any journey i can imagine.
I think there will come a time when 996's are recognised as great cars once again, i also dont think it will be that far in the future.
I think there will come a time when 996's are recognised as great cars once again, i also dont think it will be that far in the future.
BrewsterBear said:
Don't get me wrong, they're tremendous cars. Had the C4S been my first 911 I imagine I would have loved it and embraced it, but to me it felt like a modern imitation as opposed to a genuine Porsche. I agree, the OP should get out there and try a few. I'm well aware that my interpretation of things is probably skewed to that of many owners, but having had experience of both cars I thought I'd throw it out there.
My experience of 996 ownership couldn't be any different from yours. Like you I've owned and driven many air-cooled 911s (including a '73 2.4S and RS, 964 RS, C3.0, C3.2 Clubsport, 930 Turbo, 993TT) and still have a rather nice '82 SC in the garage alongside my 996 C2. So I think I have a good feel for what a 911 is like to drive. Now maybe it's because my 996 has a full KW suspension and a Manthey exhaust soundtrack, but you certainly wouldn't describe it as a mundane drive or anything other than a 911. It's a stonking car to be behind the wheel of on an open road. Makes my SC feel slow and agricultural if I'm being honest, but I still like to drive it on a sunny day. But if I had to choose one car it would be the 996 for sure. Do it. The 968 is a great car in extremis (I race a CS) but as dull as dishwater as road car when compared to any 911. The 996 isn't the best steer, but it is very fast, sounds good and will raise your heartbeat more than any 968. But each to their own - definitely give it a try though.
As for the poster considering supercharging his - don't! Check out the car at SCOM and how much has been spent trying to get that right.
As for the poster considering supercharging his - don't! Check out the car at SCOM and how much has been spent trying to get that right.
996 not a talking point? I can't believe how many admirers mine's had in my brief ownership. Seems to be everyone's favourite car, even the strictly non-petrolheads.
My black C2 3.6 with sports exhaust is, IMHO a fantastic looking and sounding car. Driving it gives a great sense of occasion and I always look back proudly when I've parked it. Sad perhaps but being honest!
My black C2 3.6 with sports exhaust is, IMHO a fantastic looking and sounding car. Driving it gives a great sense of occasion and I always look back proudly when I've parked it. Sad perhaps but being honest!
Automental said:
996 not a talking point? I can't believe how many admirers mine's had in my brief ownership. Seems to be everyone's favourite car, even the strictly non-petrolheads.
My black C2 3.6 with sports exhaust is, IMHO a fantastic looking and sounding car. Driving it gives a great sense of occasion and I always look back proudly when I've parked it. Sad perhaps but being honest!
In the 3.5 years I've had mine the only negative comments I've heard about 996's are on here! To most people they are a 911, thats's a good or bad thing depending on the person. My black C2 3.6 with sports exhaust is, IMHO a fantastic looking and sounding car. Driving it gives a great sense of occasion and I always look back proudly when I've parked it. Sad perhaps but being honest!
LordHaveMurci said:
In the 3.5 years I've had mine the only negative comments I've heard about 996's are on here! To most people they are a 911, thats's a good or bad thing depending on the person.
Absolutely. Most people drive extremely mundane cars and perhaps a 996 isn't that special compared to a Lambo or Fezza, but compared to most it is. And to me it's a unique and classic design, evolved tastefully over 50 years. I'd like a classic car but don't want to drive one every day, and the 996 fits the bill for me as a compromise. Haven't even mentioned the performance!
Automental said:
Absolutely. Most people drive extremely mundane cars and perhaps a 996 isn't that special compared to a Lambo or Fezza, but compared to most it is. And to me it's a unique and classic design, evolved tastefully over 50 years.
I'd like a classic car but don't want to drive one every day, and the 996 fits the bill for me as a compromise. Haven't even mentioned the performance!
Heres a I'd like a classic car but don't want to drive one every day, and the 996 fits the bill for me as a compromise. Haven't even mentioned the performance!
for all you 996 owners. Personally I think (and especially more so the earlier ones) are maturing nicely. People, don't forget the 996 was applauded when she came out, and rightly so IMO. (This from a 993 owner).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdim51NZoA
I really like my 98/99 996 c2 cab however I have always fancied a 964 or a 993 (now i've read these forums).
The only negative comments I have ever had have been from;
1) Random chavs telling me how they could beat it with a turbocharged fiesta / scooby / m3 / tuned up chav chariot of your choosing
2) Other porsche owners....but only after they had been on forums like this one
3) Boxster owners who keep trying to tell me they would rather have a boxster - I think this is part and parcel of boxster ownership
4) Cayman owners - see point 3
To be honest I always try and play down the fact its a porsche by mentioning its age yet keep getting told every single time "it doesn't matter because its a 911", this comes from both car fans and people who only use them as A to B transport. Whilst I wouldn't agree with the public on this, they would most definitely not have the same adoration of it if it was a boxster and usually point that out.
I get a sense of occasion when driving it because ultimately it's not particularly economical or sensible and I work around its flaws as opposed to buying some boring crapmobile to ferry myself around in instead.
Is it not particularly special? Well to me it is, especially after driving around in my backup crapmobile (honda jazz) and seeing nothing all day but a sea of audi a3s, golf diesels and annoying 3 series bmws.
Is it as special to me as a 964 or a 993? Possibly not but I haven't actually driven either of those and may be looking at them with rose tinted glasses.
The only negative comments I have ever had have been from;
1) Random chavs telling me how they could beat it with a turbocharged fiesta / scooby / m3 / tuned up chav chariot of your choosing
2) Other porsche owners....but only after they had been on forums like this one
3) Boxster owners who keep trying to tell me they would rather have a boxster - I think this is part and parcel of boxster ownership
4) Cayman owners - see point 3
To be honest I always try and play down the fact its a porsche by mentioning its age yet keep getting told every single time "it doesn't matter because its a 911", this comes from both car fans and people who only use them as A to B transport. Whilst I wouldn't agree with the public on this, they would most definitely not have the same adoration of it if it was a boxster and usually point that out.
I get a sense of occasion when driving it because ultimately it's not particularly economical or sensible and I work around its flaws as opposed to buying some boring crapmobile to ferry myself around in instead.
Is it not particularly special? Well to me it is, especially after driving around in my backup crapmobile (honda jazz) and seeing nothing all day but a sea of audi a3s, golf diesels and annoying 3 series bmws.
Is it as special to me as a 964 or a 993? Possibly not but I haven't actually driven either of those and may be looking at them with rose tinted glasses.
lawtoma said:
probably chalk, what did you do in the end? Thinking of changing from my 968 and wondered how you got on.
I realised a 996 wouldn't fit in my (tiny) garage!I started looking at 964s but I didn't want a Tip, Cab or Targa and the coupes were expensive. Then I did a couple of trackdays in quick succession in the 968 and decided I didn't want to change it. Partly because of the cost of buying and running a 964 coupe and partly becasue I was worried I'd break it or bin it.
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