Extra working hours with no contract??
Discussion
Employment law query
The other half has been working for a charity for the past 3 years without a contract as they never provided one. The local council tender the contract to said charity and are now kicking up a fuss about employees having to work longer hours (i.e ‘on call’ on Saturday for £30 and alternate Sundays as a full working day). These are being subsidised with 1 day off during the week to cover the Sunday, but not to the Saturday as this is being classed as a ‘non working day’ as she will be on call rather than in work, but will still be in receipt of wages!! (doesn’t make sense to me!!), which means potentially she could be working a 7 day week, if not more.
Her colleague however does have a contract, which I believe her employer would use as a ‘blanket’ contract which would apply to all employees. This states that the employee will work 37.5 hours per week which is ‘flexible’. (Doesn’t give guidance as to what ‘flexible’ is).
Now she’s not particularly happy about the changes, (nor am I, ruins my weekends!)
Does any one know whether this is allowed? Or if she has a leg to stand on to appeal about the changes.
Apparently there is a 5 week consultation period, where they have been told there is no consolation – its happening!
Thanks guys
The other half has been working for a charity for the past 3 years without a contract as they never provided one. The local council tender the contract to said charity and are now kicking up a fuss about employees having to work longer hours (i.e ‘on call’ on Saturday for £30 and alternate Sundays as a full working day). These are being subsidised with 1 day off during the week to cover the Sunday, but not to the Saturday as this is being classed as a ‘non working day’ as she will be on call rather than in work, but will still be in receipt of wages!! (doesn’t make sense to me!!), which means potentially she could be working a 7 day week, if not more.
Her colleague however does have a contract, which I believe her employer would use as a ‘blanket’ contract which would apply to all employees. This states that the employee will work 37.5 hours per week which is ‘flexible’. (Doesn’t give guidance as to what ‘flexible’ is).
Now she’s not particularly happy about the changes, (nor am I, ruins my weekends!)
Does any one know whether this is allowed? Or if she has a leg to stand on to appeal about the changes.
Apparently there is a 5 week consultation period, where they have been told there is no consolation – its happening!
Thanks guys
So she works Monday to Friday, hasn't had an "offical" contract, and now the employer wants her to work alternate Sundays, with a weekday off in lieu and provide on-call cover for Saturdays for an extra £30. Were Saturdays and Sundays covered before, and if so what were the arrangements?
What does she do?
Companies can change a contract, if it is required for operational reasons and it sounds as though the council are making it operational.
What does she do?
Companies can change a contract, if it is required for operational reasons and it sounds as though the council are making it operational.
mondeoman said:
So she works Monday to Friday, hasn't had an "offical" contract, and now the employer wants her to work alternate Sundays, with a weekday off in lieu and provide on-call cover for Saturdays for an extra £30. Were Saturdays and Sundays covered before, and if so what were the arrangements?
What does she do?
Companies can change a contract, if it is required for operational reasons and it sounds as though the council are making it operational.
She works for a charity in the homelessness outreach team. And no neer had to wrok week ends before!What does she do?
Companies can change a contract, if it is required for operational reasons and it sounds as though the council are making it operational.
TheFive said:
I’m not an expert on this but I think there is a reasonable amount of clarity out there (e.g. ACAS etc.) as to what the implications are in this type of situation:
1. She has no contract so her contractual terms and conditions are as far as I am aware set by precedent. So, what she has already been doing for the last three years gives the best definition of her contractual obligations as they currently stand.
2. Although in every contract there is a flexibility clause, this is not a carte blanche for an employer to do what they want. Major changes in working hours are a major change to terms and conditions and there is a process for dealing with this. Part of this should include (preferably union led) negotiation and consultation. There needs to be clear justification for the changes.
3. Ultimately, changes in terms and conditions can be enforced if there is sufficient justification but the process is not necessarily straight forward. Your wife would need to be terminated on the current contract (with notice) and then immediately re-hired on a new one. The grounds for termination must be solid (as for any dismissal) and solutions to any problems (e.g. your wife’s 24/7 availability) must be thoroughly investigated for this to be the case.
4. If the employer does not handle the process properly and your wife is dismissed then there may be a legal case for unfair dismissal.
In her situation collective representation is key. Ideally the unions would handle this through their existing membership. It is entirely possible however that the union representation is low/lazy/incompetent in which case she will have a fight on her hands.
I would be writing to HR to get them to define her obligations under her current contract (it’s their problem that they did not issue one). Then it’s a case of negotiating acceptance of the new T&Cs…
Good luck - Hope this helps!
From past experience her employer has been extreamly slow at administrative duties so I feel that if she asks HR to define her current role then it won't be seen until next year! At which point it will be too late! (Took them 18 months to get her bonus paid over!!) 1. She has no contract so her contractual terms and conditions are as far as I am aware set by precedent. So, what she has already been doing for the last three years gives the best definition of her contractual obligations as they currently stand.
2. Although in every contract there is a flexibility clause, this is not a carte blanche for an employer to do what they want. Major changes in working hours are a major change to terms and conditions and there is a process for dealing with this. Part of this should include (preferably union led) negotiation and consultation. There needs to be clear justification for the changes.
3. Ultimately, changes in terms and conditions can be enforced if there is sufficient justification but the process is not necessarily straight forward. Your wife would need to be terminated on the current contract (with notice) and then immediately re-hired on a new one. The grounds for termination must be solid (as for any dismissal) and solutions to any problems (e.g. your wife’s 24/7 availability) must be thoroughly investigated for this to be the case.
4. If the employer does not handle the process properly and your wife is dismissed then there may be a legal case for unfair dismissal.
In her situation collective representation is key. Ideally the unions would handle this through their existing membership. It is entirely possible however that the union representation is low/lazy/incompetent in which case she will have a fight on her hands.
I would be writing to HR to get them to define her obligations under her current contract (it’s their problem that they did not issue one). Then it’s a case of negotiating acceptance of the new T&Cs…
Good luck - Hope this helps!
I have said in the past that she should join the union, but it never happened!
motorbreath said:
mondeoman said:
So she works Monday to Friday, hasn't had an "offical" contract, and now the employer wants her to work alternate Sundays, with a weekday off in lieu and provide on-call cover for Saturdays for an extra £30. Were Saturdays and Sundays covered before, and if so what were the arrangements?
What does she do?
Companies can change a contract, if it is required for operational reasons and it sounds as though the council are making it operational.
She works for a charity in the homelessness outreach team. And no neer had to wrok week ends before!What does she do?
Companies can change a contract, if it is required for operational reasons and it sounds as though the council are making it operational.
Either that or walk away - it looks like it could get very messy very quickly. The charity aren't in the right from what I can see, but if the new contract is given to everyone, then there will be very little that you can do. As I said above, operational requirements can allow a change in contract, but it has to be for everyone in that role not just your missus. If the client (the council) are now asking for additional coverage the charity have a choice - either lose the contract, employ more staff, or use existing staff to cover the "new" contract requirements. Seems like they've been forced into a corner themselves TBH and are trying the lowest cost option to start with.
I think the original question regarding the employment law position has been answered. Have a look on ACAS or the DirectGov website for more info if you need it.
The remaining question is one of enforcement as I see it. If there is no collective representation (even if your Mrs is not in a union, others may be in which case it should still be a union issue) then she will need to handle it alone.
If she's not that bothered about having most of her weekends taken away from her then the easiest option is obviously to just roll with it.
If she can easily and quickly get a job elsewhere that she's happy with, then leaving would be the lowest stress method.
There are some that are of the persuasion that you should just do as you're told by your employer because, well, they're your employer. In such cases it doesn't really matter what employment law says does it? But, if I were your missus I would chase the contract, get something in writing and then go through the process which technically is dismissal and re-hire. If the justification isn't valid (it might be, but you have a right to know the facts) then it would be in her interests to do whatever she needs to do to protect herself should the worst happen, while at the same time having a look around to see what else is out there.
The remaining question is one of enforcement as I see it. If there is no collective representation (even if your Mrs is not in a union, others may be in which case it should still be a union issue) then she will need to handle it alone.
If she's not that bothered about having most of her weekends taken away from her then the easiest option is obviously to just roll with it.
If she can easily and quickly get a job elsewhere that she's happy with, then leaving would be the lowest stress method.
There are some that are of the persuasion that you should just do as you're told by your employer because, well, they're your employer. In such cases it doesn't really matter what employment law says does it? But, if I were your missus I would chase the contract, get something in writing and then go through the process which technically is dismissal and re-hire. If the justification isn't valid (it might be, but you have a right to know the facts) then it would be in her interests to do whatever she needs to do to protect herself should the worst happen, while at the same time having a look around to see what else is out there.
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