M Chassis Bargain
Discussion
Adrian@ said:
Wet dipped as OE...
Adrian@
Adrian, struggling to get my head around this one so please excuse my misunderstanding if thats what it is. During the late 1960,s I occasionally used to visit the factory and in those days anyone was free to look round. During the 1970,s, when all the "M" series were produced I used to go slightly more often but definitely not regularly. Over the production period TVR made for sake of arguement 3000 cars in 8 years, lets say 1 a day. I Never saw a 12'x6'x2' bath of paint anywhere, thats an effin lot of paint to paint 1 chassis a day. I thought and I may be wrong but I used to see chassis hanging up on wires which appeared to have been sprayed black.Adrian@
In the early 1980,s I didn,t go very often because, and i,m sorry if this offends, I hated the 280 fixed head Tasmins, thought they were minging. I did go occasionally to collect spares and did notice beautifully powder coated light grey chassis. These were apparently prepared and coated by a company in the Trough of Bowland called Bruna Powder Coating. Go look at most nice early W, X and Y registered Tasmin chassis and they are still as good as new proving that done properly powder coating is brilliant. Then TVR acquired Duple Coaches old powder coating plant and did it in house. Unfortunatly they didn,t use a charged system ( to powder coat properly you used +ve charged paint particles and -ve charged chassis so that the paint was attracted to the metal in a complete coating, subsequent heating in an oven at the correct temperature caused the paint to melt and form a complete and continuous coating on the chassis) and the coating used to come off in sheets, rust on chassis even before the body was fitted.
So what you are saying is that there was a bath of paint with thousands of litres of paint in to paint "M" series chassis. What is the difference between powder and plastic coating?
Edited by thegamekeeper on Friday 17th February 00:08
Reality notwithstanding, all you have to do with a lacquer bath, is to add thinner every now and again, and keep a sealed lid on it whenever not in use. Let's say you were to dip the week's frame production in one batch, you would then not have major issues with evaporative losses.
As anyone who has tried to spray paint any tubular frame (of any kind) will tell you, the paint wasted in that process is enormous. What is worse, you are nearly sure to miss a spot, or two.
Powder coating REQUIRES an electric charge.
Sprayed-on paint that is heated in an oven is sometimes referred to as baked enamel.
People are often using incorrect terminology.
Sometimes, that is done with intent to deceive.
The f
kers who perpetrate this idiocy are called the marketing department. Sometimes they're called advertising copy writers.
From the pictures, it seems as though the person who bought that frame picked up an amazing bargain.
Best,
B.
As anyone who has tried to spray paint any tubular frame (of any kind) will tell you, the paint wasted in that process is enormous. What is worse, you are nearly sure to miss a spot, or two.
thegamekeeper said:
What is the difference between powder and plastic coating?
You can plastic coat from a spray can. Powder coating REQUIRES an electric charge.
Sprayed-on paint that is heated in an oven is sometimes referred to as baked enamel.
People are often using incorrect terminology.
Sometimes, that is done with intent to deceive.
The f
kers who perpetrate this idiocy are called the marketing department. Sometimes they're called advertising copy writers. From the pictures, it seems as though the person who bought that frame picked up an amazing bargain.
Best,
B.
I do not know what the process was Steve, BUT what I SEE in my refurbishing of maybe 80-90 chassis is how the chassis needs stripping to get to the bare metal to start again, to add or remove a process, ultimately, WHAT I PAY for.
IMHO OE M series chassis were black cellulose, repetitively, I see 100's of drip marks where the paint has run, on the lowest part of the chassis the paint has built up, I even see wipe marks where someone has de-greased the the new tubes to 'help' adhesion, and every single part made in house shows the exact same drip markings.
Those early Grey chassis give my blaster a different set of issues, they too have drip marks and, I understand it to be a thermo-baked plastic, (it MIGHT be a powder BUT NOT a thermo-setting version) I see the pile of almost tubes, where the guys have sliced it off with a knife, opened it out and lifted it off the chassis, from poor preparation. BUT I also see the plastic melt into a dripping liquid.
The later in-house chassis, that were thermosetting powder coated, suffer from a lack of understanding of powder and I/we see issues of the blast medium embedding the tube oil into the surface THEN powder coating, even IF they cleaned the surface it took some while for them to clean/etch/rinse/blast/zinc phosphate/acid rinse PRIOR to coating.
Adrian@
Edited to say, as I now understand it, chassis finish was out sourced until the in-house powder coating plant was installed.
IMHO OE M series chassis were black cellulose, repetitively, I see 100's of drip marks where the paint has run, on the lowest part of the chassis the paint has built up, I even see wipe marks where someone has de-greased the the new tubes to 'help' adhesion, and every single part made in house shows the exact same drip markings.
Those early Grey chassis give my blaster a different set of issues, they too have drip marks and, I understand it to be a thermo-baked plastic, (it MIGHT be a powder BUT NOT a thermo-setting version) I see the pile of almost tubes, where the guys have sliced it off with a knife, opened it out and lifted it off the chassis, from poor preparation. BUT I also see the plastic melt into a dripping liquid.
The later in-house chassis, that were thermosetting powder coated, suffer from a lack of understanding of powder and I/we see issues of the blast medium embedding the tube oil into the surface THEN powder coating, even IF they cleaned the surface it took some while for them to clean/etch/rinse/blast/zinc phosphate/acid rinse PRIOR to coating.
Adrian@
Edited to say, as I now understand it, chassis finish was out sourced until the in-house powder coating plant was installed.
Edited by Adrian@ on Friday 17th February 14:01
THOUGH... it would help IF this newly powder coated chassis had all it's fixtures welded to the chassis prior to being coated.
Still a bargain, at the price that was paid.
Adrian@
ESP. as bonnet frame is 135+ these days
Edited to say, I now understand that this chassis is in black gloss.
Still a bargain, at the price that was paid.
Adrian@
ESP. as bonnet frame is 135+ these days
Edited to say, I now understand that this chassis is in black gloss.
Edited by Adrian@ on Friday 17th February 14:05
Very much a M series (minus radiator mount brackets) although it is upside down. The chassis is in black gloss.
The basic format of the chassis is the same. I am about to measure up one of the very earliest M chassis made against the drawings that I have.
With all the new chassis you need to stand the 2 next to each other and either transfer the misc brackets OR make them new for the new chassis, even then a first fix of things like inner wings and coolant towers etc. is a must.
Adrian@
The basic format of the chassis is the same. I am about to measure up one of the very earliest M chassis made against the drawings that I have.
With all the new chassis you need to stand the 2 next to each other and either transfer the misc brackets OR make them new for the new chassis, even then a first fix of things like inner wings and coolant towers etc. is a must.
Adrian@
powder coating is the process resulting in a plastic coating of the chassis.
so powder coating IS plastic coating. there are no differnces.
when TVR started the powder-coating with the tasmins, it was done in the first years at an external company specialized in this process. those cars are perfect and you may find some even today where the coating is still present and not rusted underneath.
around mid 80ies TVR thought "why paying others to do something which we could do in-house too"...and the result was a poor powder coating, flaking often already after 2 years.
so powder coating IS plastic coating. there are no differnces.
when TVR started the powder-coating with the tasmins, it was done in the first years at an external company specialized in this process. those cars are perfect and you may find some even today where the coating is still present and not rusted underneath.
around mid 80ies TVR thought "why paying others to do something which we could do in-house too"...and the result was a poor powder coating, flaking often already after 2 years.
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