Lend money to a friend...
Discussion
... and wave goodbye to them both 
A chap who I would consider a mate fell on hard times in 2010. He lost his job, was ill, and was generally in a bad shape. He showed enterprise and initiative, started up his own business, and I was pleased to have him do some work for me to help him along and get him established, as well as getting some jobs done that i had been putting off.
The idea was that I would be delighted with the work, provide references and recommendations, and help him on his way. The first bits he did for me were very good, and I was happy for him to do other jobs. Alas, this was the start of the problems.
He stretched his own ability a bit too far, and ended up in a vicious, time consuming circle of re-working. During this time, I was extremely patient, and understanding, and still paid him what he asked for. He didn't charge for all of the re-work hours, but at every stage I was fair with him, and wanted to make sure he was happy with the financial arrangement. Afterall, he was first and foremost a mate.
Time marched on, and he still couldn't get the job right, and having already paid him, I had to pay several hundred quid to have the job done correctly by a professional. I took this on the chin, why kick a man when he is down? He didn't deliberately mess it up, and above all he was a mate.
Late December 2010 he had finished everything he could do for me, and had been talking about what a rubbish Christmas he and his wife would be having. When I came to pay him, I asked if a small loan would help him get through Christmas. He was shocked, very watery eyed, and gave me the "thank you so much, you don't know what that means to me" etc. It wasn't a huge sum, but seemingly enough to make a short term difference to him. I told him that he could repay me "as and when" he got back on his feet. It's what mates do, isn't it? Help each other?
Fast forward a few months, I had hardly seen or heard from him, and gathered that things were still tough.
Fast Forward to September 2011. I tried calling him to see how he was getting on, had his health improved, how was business?, no answer. Texts followed, no answer. A week or so later he replied to an FB message, saying his phone had been out of order. He said he had sorted out a regular contract, and was starting to get the money in, and would hopefully be out of the woods by February, but he would "call later"... and I'm still waiting for "that call later".
The money was not important. But the fact that he has abused the hand of friendship, is just too much to understand. He didn't ask me for a loan, I offered it out of friendship. I'm not bemoaning the fact that I haven't been repaid, but I'm cross that I was such a bad judge of character. In his position, i would have been deperate to make some effort. Even a bloody phone call within a year would have gone down well!
I hope he is through his problems now, and that Christmas 2010 was worth it for him!
Posted for therapy and as a warning to anyone in a similar position.
A chap who I would consider a mate fell on hard times in 2010. He lost his job, was ill, and was generally in a bad shape. He showed enterprise and initiative, started up his own business, and I was pleased to have him do some work for me to help him along and get him established, as well as getting some jobs done that i had been putting off.
The idea was that I would be delighted with the work, provide references and recommendations, and help him on his way. The first bits he did for me were very good, and I was happy for him to do other jobs. Alas, this was the start of the problems.
He stretched his own ability a bit too far, and ended up in a vicious, time consuming circle of re-working. During this time, I was extremely patient, and understanding, and still paid him what he asked for. He didn't charge for all of the re-work hours, but at every stage I was fair with him, and wanted to make sure he was happy with the financial arrangement. Afterall, he was first and foremost a mate.
Time marched on, and he still couldn't get the job right, and having already paid him, I had to pay several hundred quid to have the job done correctly by a professional. I took this on the chin, why kick a man when he is down? He didn't deliberately mess it up, and above all he was a mate.
Late December 2010 he had finished everything he could do for me, and had been talking about what a rubbish Christmas he and his wife would be having. When I came to pay him, I asked if a small loan would help him get through Christmas. He was shocked, very watery eyed, and gave me the "thank you so much, you don't know what that means to me" etc. It wasn't a huge sum, but seemingly enough to make a short term difference to him. I told him that he could repay me "as and when" he got back on his feet. It's what mates do, isn't it? Help each other?
Fast forward a few months, I had hardly seen or heard from him, and gathered that things were still tough.
Fast Forward to September 2011. I tried calling him to see how he was getting on, had his health improved, how was business?, no answer. Texts followed, no answer. A week or so later he replied to an FB message, saying his phone had been out of order. He said he had sorted out a regular contract, and was starting to get the money in, and would hopefully be out of the woods by February, but he would "call later"... and I'm still waiting for "that call later".
The money was not important. But the fact that he has abused the hand of friendship, is just too much to understand. He didn't ask me for a loan, I offered it out of friendship. I'm not bemoaning the fact that I haven't been repaid, but I'm cross that I was such a bad judge of character. In his position, i would have been deperate to make some effort. Even a bloody phone call within a year would have gone down well!
I hope he is through his problems now, and that Christmas 2010 was worth it for him!
Posted for therapy and as a warning to anyone in a similar position.
its just a little disappointing that's all. a friend (not any more) owed me some money for almost two years, it wasnt very much but it was enough, we would see each other on a daily basis but he never once said 'i'm sorry i'll give you the money tomorrow' or something similar along those lines. it was only when i was desperate that i cornered him and said 'i need that money you owe me'. the look on his face was a mix of embarresment and horror, and the fact thta he replied and said 'i'm sure i paid you back' let me know how much of a true friend he was. i did get the money back and it was the last time i spoke to him.
sometimes people just forget. sometimes people choose to forget as well.
sometimes people just forget. sometimes people choose to forget as well.
Not in the same league, but I took a car stereo (head unit, speakers, custom parcel shelf) out of my car, it was all in as new condition and spent a day fitting it properly into a friends car on the understanding I'd get paid a fair price 'later' I wasn't worried about the money either however ~8 years later and I've still not seen a penny.
David you are the single most generous person I've ever met and it's a shame that anyone left you in this position. On another note I shall try and pop by to say hello and for a beer soon.
David you are the single most generous person I've ever met and it's a shame that anyone left you in this position. On another note I shall try and pop by to say hello and for a beer soon.
If he's still not actually in a position to pay you back, then, as someone else suggested maybe he's just ashamed. Maybe he's just taking a head-in-sand approach to the situation and ignoring it, perhaps he's not even admitting it to himself. People compartmentalise and can actually mean it when, despite not really being in a position to, they say things like "I'll pay you back soon". It's unfortunate when people don't come clean when they're struggling, both to themselves and to anyone else it affects, but it's very common. Pride can cause all sorts of problems!
Unless he is actually in a position to pay you back now and is still not getting in contact, then perhaps don't think too harshly of him.
I guess the choices are to just write it off and move on (which it sounds like is what you're doing) or try clear the air and give him an opportunity to come clean (let him know you're not bothered if he still can't pay you back, you'd rather know how things are from time to time rather than be strung along with intentions). Given how little contact you have had from him for so long, might as well stick to moving on - I hope one day out of the blue he'll offer to pay you back and you can be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not sure I'd bet on that happening.
Unless he is actually in a position to pay you back now and is still not getting in contact, then perhaps don't think too harshly of him.
I guess the choices are to just write it off and move on (which it sounds like is what you're doing) or try clear the air and give him an opportunity to come clean (let him know you're not bothered if he still can't pay you back, you'd rather know how things are from time to time rather than be strung along with intentions). Given how little contact you have had from him for so long, might as well stick to moving on - I hope one day out of the blue he'll offer to pay you back and you can be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not sure I'd bet on that happening.
nonuts said:
David you are the single most generous person I've ever met and it's a shame that anyone left you in this position.
This ^You're a brilliant guy David, sadly kindness is often taken for granted and the situation / mind set in which that "mate" was in at that time will be long gone by the time it comes to repay the favour/ money etc.
I by principle won't lend anyone more than £150 just incase, I like to help and individual out in actions rather than money....
In my experience 'Money' always seems to cause trouble with friends and family.
As a result I never lend to, or borrow from them.
Having seen the generation above me cut each other off for the silliest of reasons (most as a result of wills/estates), I have vowed to not let this happen in our generation.
As a result I never lend to, or borrow from them.
Having seen the generation above me cut each other off for the silliest of reasons (most as a result of wills/estates), I have vowed to not let this happen in our generation.
Edited by BrightYellowTVR on Saturday 18th February 19:47
BrightYellowTVR said:
In my expereince 'Money' always seems to cause trouble with friends and family.
As a result I never lend to, or borrow from them.
Having seen the generation above me cut each other off for the silliest of reasons (most as a result of wills/estates), I have vowed to not let this happen in our generation.
As a result I never lend to, or borrow from them.
Having seen the generation above me cut each other off for the silliest of reasons (most as a result of wills/estates), I have vowed to not let this happen in our generation.
Heard far too many stories. As for lending to a friend, give it as a gift or don't help them. There's no middle ground. If they return it, that's a bonus and you know that they are a decent friend.My father unfortunately made the mistake of lending money to someone a few years back. A friend, known via work only for a number of years and not any more personal.
The chap was beat up and down, needing money for his daughter who was disabled to fund a new wheel chair or something. Anyhow my father offered to lend him the money for the chair to help them in their difficult time.
As time past and my dad asked when was the money due to be paid back, he went silent. He even changed jobs, so was quite a mission to get hold of him. As it turns out his new job was a taxi driver of which someone we knew had taken a trip in and let us know. As we did a bit of digging it turned out there was no disabled daughter and no wheel chair. The chap had a gambling problem.
Fast forward to now, 5 years on we are lucky if we receive £100 every other month from the guy. Who has excuses for everything under the sun. Unfortunately some people just take the mick, no matter their situation. In this situation it hit my father hardest when he suffered his bowel cancer, the money lent out could have easily looked after the bills and what not that little bit more to releave stress and worry.
Lessons was learnt, the hard way unfortunately.
The chap was beat up and down, needing money for his daughter who was disabled to fund a new wheel chair or something. Anyhow my father offered to lend him the money for the chair to help them in their difficult time.
As time past and my dad asked when was the money due to be paid back, he went silent. He even changed jobs, so was quite a mission to get hold of him. As it turns out his new job was a taxi driver of which someone we knew had taken a trip in and let us know. As we did a bit of digging it turned out there was no disabled daughter and no wheel chair. The chap had a gambling problem.
Fast forward to now, 5 years on we are lucky if we receive £100 every other month from the guy. Who has excuses for everything under the sun. Unfortunately some people just take the mick, no matter their situation. In this situation it hit my father hardest when he suffered his bowel cancer, the money lent out could have easily looked after the bills and what not that little bit more to releave stress and worry.
Lessons was learnt, the hard way unfortunately.
Well, I for one think David is a meanie; I tell you, once he never even turned up to a Paris run he'd organised with the 'lame' excuse that he'd had part of his leg sawn off - I've heard some things in my time... 
Back on topic, I always like to think the best of people and as has been mentioned, this guy is probably embarrassed + if he's had such a hard time it might be worth considering a touch of depression, doesn't want to go out, doesn't want to answer the phone etc etc.
Why not take him out for a drink and not mention the money, see what crops up?
If you don't fancy that buy me a drink instead!
Scrap that, I feel like a burger, you know how grumpy I get when I haven't eaten in a while
Back on topic, I always like to think the best of people and as has been mentioned, this guy is probably embarrassed + if he's had such a hard time it might be worth considering a touch of depression, doesn't want to go out, doesn't want to answer the phone etc etc.
Why not take him out for a drink and not mention the money, see what crops up?
Scrap that, I feel like a burger, you know how grumpy I get when I haven't eaten in a while
Its a very tough issue and I absolutely understand the embarrassment factor. The debt gets in the way. Personally I would prefer to simply give the money away with the comment that the friend would do the same thing for me if the positions were reversed. The OP did the decent thing, of course, and its a shame it was such a disappointment.
I had a similar situation about 5 years ago with a mate who had sunk tens of thousands into a business in the Far East that never really took off, he was always 1 month away from the 'big' contract being signed.
Long story short, he was down on his luck, had run out of investors and investment funds, wife was pregnant and he was between contracts - I had just been made redundant so had a reasonable (but not big) cash payout. He approached me and asked for £5k which would allow his activities in the Far East to continue for another 2 months, in return for a shareholding in his company. I declined which meant we did not speak for a couple of months.
He managed to keep the company going for another 6 months before it folded, taking with it over £350k of investors funds and leaving a trail of rather angry family, friends and small time speculators in its wake.
We are now good friends again but I personally learnt a valuable lesson from the situation, so I keep my finances and friendships well apart!
Long story short, he was down on his luck, had run out of investors and investment funds, wife was pregnant and he was between contracts - I had just been made redundant so had a reasonable (but not big) cash payout. He approached me and asked for £5k which would allow his activities in the Far East to continue for another 2 months, in return for a shareholding in his company. I declined which meant we did not speak for a couple of months.
He managed to keep the company going for another 6 months before it folded, taking with it over £350k of investors funds and leaving a trail of rather angry family, friends and small time speculators in its wake.
We are now good friends again but I personally learnt a valuable lesson from the situation, so I keep my finances and friendships well apart!
Blimey, many thanks for your very kind words chaps, that certainly warms a chap's cockles - I was not fishing for compliments.
Thanks to those whom I don't know, who have posted their views, opinions and recommendations. I have given thought to it, and I'm afraid that I just don't buy the "embarrassed" theory. You may be right, however this chap's business is a regular "service". (I don't want to be too specific, as I have no intention of outing him on here) If he was strapped for every last penny (He has been in regular employment since the middle of last year, and I very much doubt he has stopped buying & drinking booze) he could have offered to come over and provide his services foc as a means easing his conscience - if he had one.
No. I face up to the fact that I was a bad judge of character and the friendship has been lost. It was obviously worth more to me than to him. Despite this, I hope he has managed to pull himself together and is back on his feet.
I will almost certainly bump into him one day, I wonder which way he will look
Per ardua ad astra!
Thanks to those whom I don't know, who have posted their views, opinions and recommendations. I have given thought to it, and I'm afraid that I just don't buy the "embarrassed" theory. You may be right, however this chap's business is a regular "service". (I don't want to be too specific, as I have no intention of outing him on here) If he was strapped for every last penny (He has been in regular employment since the middle of last year, and I very much doubt he has stopped buying & drinking booze) he could have offered to come over and provide his services foc as a means easing his conscience - if he had one.
No. I face up to the fact that I was a bad judge of character and the friendship has been lost. It was obviously worth more to me than to him. Despite this, I hope he has managed to pull himself together and is back on his feet.
I will almost certainly bump into him one day, I wonder which way he will look
Per ardua ad astra!
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