Anyone got experience of E36 M3 on track?
Discussion
Know these are not the best M cars but as a cheap(ish) track car they seem good value? I am thinking of a 3.0 car then stripping, caging it etc. Perhaps spend a total of £10k or so and get the weight down to under 1300Kg.
Anyone done this and/or have experience in tweaking the steering for better response and feel? It will either be this or a Porsche 968/911. Max budget of £20k.
Anyone done this and/or have experience in tweaking the steering for better response and feel? It will either be this or a Porsche 968/911. Max budget of £20k.
I'd pick the E36 over the Porsche as the E36 has been done many times as a track day car and the parts are a lot cheaper than the 911 (mostly).
However for the budget you are talking, I'd consider a 130i.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2746254.htm
1450kg, rip everything out, sell the satnav, interior, then fit a LSD and you have one of the last good BMW engines, 260bhp (more with a remap) and an awesome chassis.
However for the budget you are talking, I'd consider a 130i.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2746254.htm
1450kg, rip everything out, sell the satnav, interior, then fit a LSD and you have one of the last good BMW engines, 260bhp (more with a remap) and an awesome chassis.
I've driven mine on the 'ring, although in roadgoing form.
You see them quite often on the Nurburgring: Tourist, VLN or 24h races.
They're great cars on track if you improve on a couple of parts like brakes and suspension.
I'd go for the 3.2 though. Or get a GT.. if you can get your hands on one.
You should also take a look at the Z3M Coupe, as they also make fantastic track weapons.
You see them quite often on the Nurburgring: Tourist, VLN or 24h races.
They're great cars on track if you improve on a couple of parts like brakes and suspension.
I'd go for the 3.2 though. Or get a GT.. if you can get your hands on one.
You should also take a look at the Z3M Coupe, as they also make fantastic track weapons.
Thanks guys - they do seem interesting. Fairly cheap too. My only concern is with the steering feel which seems lacking. Thinking of getting something that is useable on road (taking the Mrs to the shops etc) but can then be a hoot on track.
Race seats, harnesses etc and some proper suspension/AP racing brakes etc should do the trick I think. Presume the parts should be available on the secondhand market and I should be able to convert back to standard trim if/when the time comes to sell..
Race seats, harnesses etc and some proper suspension/AP racing brakes etc should do the trick I think. Presume the parts should be available on the secondhand market and I should be able to convert back to standard trim if/when the time comes to sell..
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=...
Great cars for the track.... fast & lots tuning state possible. Mine is still a standard engine, but suspension, brakes and diff modified
As regards steering... Never noticed any issue..
Great cars for the track.... fast & lots tuning state possible. Mine is still a standard engine, but suspension, brakes and diff modified
As regards steering... Never noticed any issue..
you can build a very good track E36 Evo for 10k... got one myself which is stripped out and only used on track... its bog std though and really needs shocks and brakes maybe cage... so around 5k spent on it and it would stunning on track... its already a hoot with its tired stock brakes and shocks.
So given that a good un can be got for 4k giving yu 1k to spend on rubber
My understanding is the Evo has a better sump pickup thats safer on track... you can upgrade the 3L to evo sump spec but why when you can just buy an evo with a slightly higher power.... its said the 5speed box is better buy I like my 6 speeder and suits the engine well.
I will never get rid of my Evo... too much car/ performance for the money and built to last!
BTW best place to get this kind of advice from is the track day forum as LOADS of people on there have turned M3's into track dedicated tools
So given that a good un can be got for 4k giving yu 1k to spend on rubber
My understanding is the Evo has a better sump pickup thats safer on track... you can upgrade the 3L to evo sump spec but why when you can just buy an evo with a slightly higher power.... its said the 5speed box is better buy I like my 6 speeder and suits the engine well.
I will never get rid of my Evo... too much car/ performance for the money and built to last!
BTW best place to get this kind of advice from is the track day forum as LOADS of people on there have turned M3's into track dedicated tools
SliderSi said:
Know these are not the best M cars but as a cheap(ish) track car they seem good value?
?? you jest squire, pound per pace its the best, there is nowt with an M badge can touch an e36 on that basis.An e36 M3 as stock I find too soft & uninspiring, a great power plant mounted in jelly, but with the right bits done tho they are ace & can really punch above their humble price tag.
Yes im incredably biased, I've had lots of the buggers, all track modded.
Steering feel, yes vs 968/944/911/Elise/Exige/Caterham/Mx5 is numb, vs most other stuff its not so bad, when they have proper camber on them & decent suspension track geo its far far better than on road settings.
There are however other racks you can fit, they are really just all about shortening the lock to lock tho- i.e a quicker rack, rather than 'feel' as standard 3.0 is a comically long rack really, but really are only few track where its an issue, you can mess about with restricting flow to the pas rack tho to improve 'feel' I know of one guy who has done this, but its not a novice mod & given he does this stuff to a high level for his day job, most of the rest of us are best to leave it alone.
With currently far too many motors I'm cutting the fleet back & I have pretty much the perfect car for you, low miles ally door non sunroof Estoril 3.2, pss9s, Eibach arbs, carbon intake, de cat, brand new APs with RS29s, full strip, weichers cage, race seats etc etc but a deal has been reached & hands have been shaken, altho no $ changed hands yet but it should sell tomorrow, if not, its far less than your budget, I'll drop you a line maybe?
Edited by iguana on Tuesday 21st February 23:08
andygtt said:
you can build a very good track E36 Evo for 10k... got one myself which is stripped out and only used on track... its bog std though and really needs shocks and brakes maybe cage... so around 5k spent on it and it would stunning on track... its already a hoot with its tired stock brakes and shocks.
So given that a good un can be got for 4k giving yu 1k to spend on rubber
My understanding is the Evo has a better sump pickup thats safer on track... you can upgrade the 3L to evo sump spec but why when you can just buy an evo with a slightly higher power.... its said the 5speed box is better buy I like my 6 speeder and suits the engine well.
I will never get rid of my Evo... too much car/ performance for the money and built to last!
BTW best place to get this kind of advice from is the track day forum as LOADS of people on there have turned M3's into track dedicated tools
Well yes there is that view, & I've had a 3.2 set up put on a 3.0, its not cheap tho even used & crazy money for new parts, however equally my old 3.0 must have done 130k odd with hmmm I dunno 15+ track days, the latter few caged & on slicks & its still going strong with its single pick up as are other 3.0s on slicks.So given that a good un can be got for 4k giving yu 1k to spend on rubber
My understanding is the Evo has a better sump pickup thats safer on track... you can upgrade the 3L to evo sump spec but why when you can just buy an evo with a slightly higher power.... its said the 5speed box is better buy I like my 6 speeder and suits the engine well.
I will never get rid of my Evo... too much car/ performance for the money and built to last!
BTW best place to get this kind of advice from is the track day forum as LOADS of people on there have turned M3's into track dedicated tools
The head restrictor valve is another 'must' on some 3.0s- one of mine really breathed oil without one, the other didnt. Back in the day when they raced new e36s many folks said without the restrictor & twin pick ups they would blow up & indeed many did, but as above many cars have coped without.
5 speeder is peanuts to replace vs a 6 speed box, its lighter (as I think is the 3.0 diff) & is said to be tougher, the 6 is a greatbox to use tho, until they go pop, its not silly $ to throw in a 5 speed if that happens tho, the lower fd in the evo dif is v handy then.
The Evo is not imunne from its own issues, I'd not track an evo without ARP rod bolts, but am far happier to do so with a 3.0 & can always fit the alloy doors to a 3.0
Worth a play with the search engine if its working for track m3 or m3 suspension or e36 m3 etc etc, we have discussed all sorts on this forum here over the years.
There is a lot of dross out there at the lower ends but you can get really good solid cars for very little, far less than 4k even.
10k is a fair budget to build for a good car, but it costs a lot to sort one properly if you are paying for the labour & depending on the spec you want 500quid suspension or 5k etc, 500 quid cage or 2k, 300 quid brakes or 4k etc etc & obsessive lightness, happy with 1350kg fully caged or want the sub 1200kg (im sure I heard of one racer at 1000kg?) add expensive lightness caged beasty then 20k is easy.
Far cheaper to buy one done tho, even really great spec cars go for far less & with a cheaper but good solid base car, if you minus the APs & choose budget but good gear & used where posible, you can have a really good car for not a lot.
Edited by iguana on Monday 20th February 00:45
Edited by iguana on Wednesday 22 February 22:19
M3Charlie - many thanks, I may take you up on your offer - I am in SE London but occassionally do come into Hampshire.
Iguana - yes, please drop me details and thanks for all your input.
I am not after a pure track car but something that can give me most of the thrills of my Caterham but be warmer (!) and useable in the winter with the odd trackday thrown in. I do not think I would want to go down the slicks etc route as I do like easy low speed driftability but having something dripping with feel is very important
I test drove a bog standard E46 M3 which I found very dull but do think a much harder, lighter E36 car could be quite a bit more interesting...
Out of interest, how much are consumables and depending on the mods, would have thought most could be reversed and sold secondhand if/when I wanted to move the car on?
Iguana - yes, please drop me details and thanks for all your input.
I am not after a pure track car but something that can give me most of the thrills of my Caterham but be warmer (!) and useable in the winter with the odd trackday thrown in. I do not think I would want to go down the slicks etc route as I do like easy low speed driftability but having something dripping with feel is very important
I test drove a bog standard E46 M3 which I found very dull but do think a much harder, lighter E36 car could be quite a bit more interesting...
Out of interest, how much are consumables and depending on the mods, would have thought most could be reversed and sold secondhand if/when I wanted to move the car on?
http://www.bridgetogantry.com/2/index.php?option=c...
Doesn't need much work to make them very quick!
Doesn't need much work to make them very quick!
Another vote for the E36 M3 here, i have been running one as a track car since 2009. Stripped and with uprated suspension, brakes, diff, bushes etc they make a great rwd track toy. Steering feel might not quite as good as the very best but with good bushes, track geometry and quicker rack from the Z3 its isnt bad. Theres also a solid bush for the steering column available which is supposed to improve thing further.
Parts are easy to come by and mostly relatively cheap, engines are pretty strong as long as taken care off and the handling basic car balance is very good.
Mines a 3.0 litre,the evo has a bit more grunt from low revs both make great track cars imo.
Parts are easy to come by and mostly relatively cheap, engines are pretty strong as long as taken care off and the handling basic car balance is very good.
Mines a 3.0 litre,the evo has a bit more grunt from low revs both make great track cars imo.
SliderSi said:
M3Charlie - many thanks, I may take you up on your offer - I am in SE London but occassionally do come into Hampshire.
Iguana - yes, please drop me details and thanks for all your input.
I am not after a pure track car but something that can give me most of the thrills of my Caterham but be warmer (!) and useable in the winter with the odd trackday thrown in. I do not think I would want to go down the slicks etc route as I do like easy low speed driftability but having something dripping with feel is very important
I test drove a bog standard E46 M3 which I found very dull but do think a much harder, lighter E36 car could be quite a bit more interesting...
Out of interest, how much are consumables and depending on the mods, would have thought most could be reversed and sold secondhand if/when I wanted to move the car on?
You do have to remember it was a 40k car when new & 300odd bhp & 160mph capacity & the early cars are nearing 20 yrs old now, so are a few parts that can be scary vs say an e36 328, which is peanuts for bits, but are a host of used bits out there & also many parts are available for not scary dosh via gsf & ecp etc & beinga bit savvy as to what else may use the same part can save hundreds- M3 oil cooler is a good example.Iguana - yes, please drop me details and thanks for all your input.
I am not after a pure track car but something that can give me most of the thrills of my Caterham but be warmer (!) and useable in the winter with the odd trackday thrown in. I do not think I would want to go down the slicks etc route as I do like easy low speed driftability but having something dripping with feel is very important
I test drove a bog standard E46 M3 which I found very dull but do think a much harder, lighter E36 car could be quite a bit more interesting...
Out of interest, how much are consumables and depending on the mods, would have thought most could be reversed and sold secondhand if/when I wanted to move the car on?
Its a heavy car so track consumables are not like a Caterham & wide 17 & 18 inch wheels are not cheap for track tyres etc are double the cost of smaller sizes like the 15s another car of mine runs.
Also depends what spec you run the car to, AP replacement discs are not cheap, neither are Pagid RS29s, but 3.0 stock disc are, 3.2s less so & are various cheaper race pads etc.
Yes always a willing market for performance bits for M3 when you sell it on, half the new cost is a very rough average, very dependant on the part & its condition etc. However in my experience of track M3s & I've sold on 4 now there is always a decent market for decently speced track cars & they do sell easily, there are also a few dreamers who price stupidly & will never sell at their dream wold prices however.
Another vote for the e36 evo here.
Im half way through making my track car and there are so many plus points.
its miles cheaper than my e46 m3 too.
Very affordable and easy to work on. Easy mods like coilovers, and stripping the weight achieve great results and RWD is really excellent.
A 328 would probably be the better choice tho, as they are much much cheaper to buy. However if money doesnt matter that much, go for an Evo
You can even get an e46 M3 for very cheap money these days.
Porsche BBK will be about 500 quid and good enough for most track abuse.
Not had my rod bolts done yet and engine is still running. But will get them done soon. I also drawn to the evo's twin oil pickups, key for trackwork.
Im half way through making my track car and there are so many plus points.
its miles cheaper than my e46 m3 too.
Very affordable and easy to work on. Easy mods like coilovers, and stripping the weight achieve great results and RWD is really excellent.
A 328 would probably be the better choice tho, as they are much much cheaper to buy. However if money doesnt matter that much, go for an Evo
You can even get an e46 M3 for very cheap money these days.
Porsche BBK will be about 500 quid and good enough for most track abuse.
Not had my rod bolts done yet and engine is still running. But will get them done soon. I also drawn to the evo's twin oil pickups, key for trackwork.
We had a couple of E36 M3's on track at Castle Combe on saturday. It was a very wet day but they were both absolutely flying. Not sure what tyres they were on or the mods to the suspension, but I was seriously impressed.
Not quite as pretty as this, but a much cheaper car to start with .
Not quite as pretty as this, but a much cheaper car to start with .
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