Soldier accidentally kills friend while cleaning rifle
Discussion
Have to disagree, it was not a tragic accident, it was negligence, pure and simple, and really isn't acceptable, he will be court martialed and I strongly suspect will spend his alst days in the army in prison
How do you explain to someone their son is dead because someone else couldnt follow basic safety rules as they had been trained to do.
How do you explain to someone their son is dead because someone else couldnt follow basic safety rules as they had been trained to do.
DocJock said:
So you didn't bother to read the article before your pompous comment.
Combat stress affects everyone differently. In this case the guy made a blunder he has to live with for the rest of his puff.
No doubt I'll get flamed for this too, but I agree with Tom55. It's many years since I had to clean weapons but there were two rules we always had to follow - i) make sure there wasn't one up the spout and ii) never point at anyone unless you intended to do them harm. Any other behaviour was gross negligence and reckless in the extreme, no excuses allowed. Even now I remember it and get quite agitated when I see people messing around with weapons of any sort.Combat stress affects everyone differently. In this case the guy made a blunder he has to live with for the rest of his puff.
It's also clear from the article that the guy cleaning the weapon knew the procedure and had been following it, but failed to perform the basic checks before carrying out the final test.
I feel sorry for the guy, but "clear" is "clear" when handling firearms.
There is no excuse.
Credit to him though for being completely honest.
But this was his own weapon, which means this really shouldn't happen.
I, and probably quite few others here have assembled guns blindfolded and still perform a make safe.
This was gun cleaning/maint, not a stressful situation.
I would not want him crawling behind me with a loaded gun and nor will anyone else.
I think it's civvy street unfortunately.
Tragic all round.
There is no excuse.
Credit to him though for being completely honest.
But this was his own weapon, which means this really shouldn't happen.
I, and probably quite few others here have assembled guns blindfolded and still perform a make safe.
This was gun cleaning/maint, not a stressful situation.
I would not want him crawling behind me with a loaded gun and nor will anyone else.
I think it's civvy street unfortunately.
Tragic all round.
Tom55 said:
Have to disagree, it was not a tragic accident, it was negligence, pure and simple, and really isn't acceptable, he will be court martialed and I strongly suspect will spend his alst days in the army in prison
How do you explain to someone their son is dead because someone else couldnt follow basic safety rules as they had been trained to do.
Agree with this - absolutely inexcusable.How do you explain to someone their son is dead because someone else couldnt follow basic safety rules as they had been trained to do.
I used to regularly handle rifles a while back : basic safety training is NEVER point the muzzle at anyone loaded or unloaded (unless you intend to kill them), alway ensure the weapon is unloaded when cleaning and maintaining.
This guy just didn't follow he safety drill that he already knew about ...
6 months suspended for negligently killing someone seems a bit light. In "civvy street" I suspect the manslaughter would have attracted a bigger penalty. We all make mistakes and it makes a difference whether you are holding an iceing bag or an AK.
Edited by UnderTheRadar on Saturday 25th February 13:24
RIP.
Poor lad, having to live with that for the rest of his life.
And before you jump on me for saying that, I have PERSONALLY stopped a similar incident [apart from the location] happening in the distant past.......rattling through unloading drill on ops one cold desert night a young, tired airman got out of step with the unloading/making safe drill and put the loaded mag back on before letting the working parts go forwards and firing off the action, only my shout of "STOP", a very forceful one I have to say saved the day.
Fatigue, will always creep up on people, add in prolonged exposure to battle stress and it's a deadly combination.
Poor lad, having to live with that for the rest of his life.
And before you jump on me for saying that, I have PERSONALLY stopped a similar incident [apart from the location] happening in the distant past.......rattling through unloading drill on ops one cold desert night a young, tired airman got out of step with the unloading/making safe drill and put the loaded mag back on before letting the working parts go forwards and firing off the action, only my shout of "STOP", a very forceful one I have to say saved the day.
Fatigue, will always creep up on people, add in prolonged exposure to battle stress and it's a deadly combination.
DocJock said:
So you didn't bother to read the article before your pompous comment....
Why does someone always come up with rubbish like this? (i.e. "pompous")Tom was spot on. The article (assuming you read it) was pretty much saying the same thing.
Tragic, but no accident (a word we use FAR too freely). I guess the only reason the sentence was so light was acknowledgement that the guy will have to live with what he's done.
Presumably he will also be discharged.
0000 said:
I hear this a lot in circumstances that fit the definition of the word as I understand it. What do you take the word accident to mean?
IMO the word gets used often to effectively absolve someone of accountability. Or to imply that the event was unavoidable.Whilst I accept a definition of it includes whether the consequences were intended or not, the subtext often seems to be "not my fault".
Maybe that's just me but I believe the Police, for example, are moving away from using the phrase RTA for similar reasons to my view on accountability.
Further, I'd argue the point on "intended consequences".
If you point a weapon at someone you *know* that there is a risk that there will be horrible consequences (especially as a professional with weapons). If you drive like a tool you should know that the outcome might not be pretty. If you pilot your ship too close to land you should know the likelihood of hitting something is highly increased. That you "forgot" or "misjudged" for whatever reason is irrelevant. It was negligent, and more frequent use of that harsher term might not be a bad thing.
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