Series one diff.

[Astacus]

The next stage of my rebuild is to check over the diff. There is a certain amount of play, i am not sure its anything to worry about, but i would like to take a look at the innards. Also, it needs new oil seals, and mounting bushes. I am wondering whether those of you with experience of doing this have any tips?

So far, I have discovered that the drain plug doesn't want to come out, but that's not a huge surprise, and I've drained it through the fill hole.

It looks like the oil seals are held in by plates behind the drive flanges and I am hoping that the MOWOG casing comes away after the propshaft drive flange is removed and the umpteen nuts are removed.

I also wondered whether, being MGB, I should replace the fibre and copper washers, as you do on the B.

Any comments gratefully received.

Cheers


Matt

[Adrian@]

Hi Matt,
I did a lot of swapping of Grantura diff internals a few years back, and had to swap almost all of the gear set thrust etc, on all of them (I have NO knowledge of the MG) we were exchanging the 10 tooth output shafts for the 25 tooth version as this is a known weakness, it was an issue to try to replace the leather seals (which have a very large wipe area) for modern rubber lip seal which OE items are and that the output shafts are different lengths.
Adrian@
Edited to say 25 tooth as a follow up to a later post

Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 29th February 13:17

[thegamekeeper]

Matt, diff is fairly simple. I am not sure what data Adrian used to set up all his diffs if he has NO knowledge of MG because the diiferential is MG, MGA if 4.1:1, or banjo MGB if 3.9:1. Firstly, make sure you remove the drain plug before you refit, you do NOT want to be taking diff out of car to do oil changes (and they do need regular oil changes). Before you dismantle anything be sure to punch mark the output flanges, diff casing and drive flanges to ensure they go back in the same side they came out of. The shafts are VERY slightly different lengths, not by accident and if you fit them the wrong way round, and I,ve done it once, you will have huge problems and will have to remove and rebuild again. THAT is IMPORTANT.

To remove the output shafts undo the 4 nuts and gently tap to free them. They will come out complete with bearing and seal. I suggest you take them to an engineering shop to have the bearings removed, big hammer approach is a bad move and the will not come off without a fight.

To remove the differential unit from the casting you now need to undo the ring of nuts that hold it in. UNC threads into casing, UNF into nuts. I always clean out the UNC threads with appropriate tap and refit studs using loctite. My advice at this stage would be to give differential to an MG specialist for an overhaul, even if it looks OK. Be sure to ask them to replace nose oil seal or they probably wont. You have never driven the car (I think) and it would be a shame to refit it only to find its whining.

You will need to make your own output shaft gaskets with heavy gasket paper, using casing to witness mark it. Diff face gasket is MGB banjo diff gasket.

Reassembly is fairly straight forward,make sure the breather is clear. Refil to level with good quality mineral oil, I always add a slug of gearbox molyslip in for good measure. I find that when the oil gets up to temperature and you give it some beans the breather will dump out some oil, usually onto a hot exhaust and all will disappear beheind you for a few hundred yards (metres if you are driving in France), dont be alarmed it will clear and find its own level. Last time I put a Red Bull can to collect the overfill.

Always use RUBBER bushes to mount.

As with most diffs of this era its the planet gears that are the "weakness", personally I have never had a failure but I tend to overmaintain so maybe I,ve been lucky. You can fit LSD to it, I did and it was HORRIBLE so I took it out, it wanted to kill me.

Regular oil changes.

End of knowledge.

[Adrian@]

Hi Steve,
My 'data' came from a service dept technical sheet that Stewart Hall (ex car club chairman and ex factory rather than show bis) gifted to me and the diffs were fitted with Tran-x LSD.
Adrian@

[stainless_steve]

I've just come out of hospital and you two guys cheer me up no end,keep up the good work

[thegamekeeper]

Steve, sorry to hear you have been a burden on the NHS but equally hope you,re well and on the mend.. I think the last time we shared a forum on here I had just been held up at gunpoint in Londinium and soon after some scrotes had tried to borrow your SEAC in a similar way.


Sorry about posts, it was never my intention to amuse sTeVeR@

[Fiscracer]

Astacus said:

The next stage of my rebuild is to check over the diff. There is a certain amount of play, i am not sure its anything to worry about, but i would like to take a look at the innards. Also, it needs new oil seals, and mounting bushes. I am wondering whether those of you with experience of doing this have any tips?

So far, I have discovered that the drain plug doesn't want to come out, but that's not a huge surprise, and I've drained it through the fill hole.

It looks like the oil seals are held in by plates behind the drive flanges and I am hoping that the MOWOG casing comes away after the propshaft drive flange is removed and the umpteen nuts are removed.

I also wondered whether, being MGB, I should replace the fibre and copper washers, as you do on the B.

Any comments gratefully received.

Cheers


Matt

A few observations

You need to pull out the output shafts beore the diff will come out of the casing, this can be a challenge

10 splines = MGA, 23 spline = MGB

Std MGA diff is 4.3, MGB is 3.9. 4.1 was only on MGA Twin Cam and 1600 de Luxe and is very rare

When you do get the drain plug out ensure it is wired in when it goes back. I lost the fill plug last year and it cost me the diff

I've used polybushes and a Quaife diff without problem, although setting up a plate diff correctly might be a challenge

Personally I'd go to a specialist like Hardy Engineering in Leatherhead

[Astacus]

Many thanks everyone. This is a great help. I knew there would be wrinkles I hadn't anticipated!

Does anyone keep the bushes? - I did mic. up the (remains of the) ones I have, so I do have these dimensions, but I don't have the ones from the side arms for reference.

[Astacus]

thegamekeeper said:

Steve, sorry to hear you have been a burden on the NHS but equally hope you,re well and on the mend.. I think the last time we shared a forum on here I had just been held up at gunpoint in Londinium and soon after some scrotes had tried to borrow your SEAC in a similar way.


Sorry about posts, it was never my intention to amuse sTeVeR@

Bloody hell is this for real?

[Adrian@]

I now have checked my paperwork and my listing (along with invoice/parts numbers from B & G) is for 10 or 25 spline.
Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 28th February 15:59

[thegamekeeper]

Astacus said:

thegamekeeper said:

Steve, sorry to hear you have been a burden on the NHS but equally hope you,re well and on the mend.. I think the last time we shared a forum on here I had just been held up at gunpoint in Londinium and soon after some scrotes had tried to borrow your SEAC in a similar way.


Sorry about posts, it was never my intention to amuse sTeVeR@

Bloody hell is this for real?

Not something to joke about!!! Until someone points a gun at you its not possible to imagine what its like. Fortunatly it wasn,t a knife, people dont think twice about using a knife but need LARGE balls to shoot someone. I wont post the outcome of us defending ourselves and the details, you just wouldn,t believe it. Sufficient to say, dont pick a fight with Lili.

Edited by thegamekeeper on Tuesday 28th February 18:34

[thegamekeeper]

Adrian@ said:

Hi Steve,
My 'data' came from a service dept technical sheet that Stewart Hall (ex car club chairman and ex factory rather than show bis) gifted to me and the diffs were fitted with Tran-x LSD.
Adrian@

Adrian, are you sure you are not cross breeding Stewart Halstead (TVRCC President for a while and Director of TVR Engineering) with Eddie Hall (factory service manager)?

Stuart Hall of "Its a Knockout" fame was a serial TVR owner and enthusiast.


Fisc, TVR were fitted as standard with 4.1:1 B series diff, 4.3, 4.55, 4.875 and 5.1 were options. I have rebuilt quite a few and have 5 complete units in stock, including a brand new never been fitted one. All are 4.1:1 except the one in my car which is 3.9:1 but its merely a road car. I must have been lucky because I have never seen a 10 spline diff fitted to any TVR casing.

[Adrian@]

Hi Steve,
Sell...and IF you do see a 10 spline my advice is to change it to 25 spline (if you are thinking of racing, that is)
There was a Stewart Hall (K.S. Hall) car club Chairman and I purchased my first TVR off him, events were held on his lawn in his pretty little house opposite the Waterman pub at 2 Hatton Hill Cottages, Hatton, Nr. Warwick, Stan Kilcoyne was President, Doug Manuel was Secretary, Tony Claydon Competition Secretary... ALL before your time perhaps
Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 28th February 18:51

[thegamekeeper]

You are right Adrian, must have been before my time. I didn,t even know of the existence of the TVRCC before Peter Simpson was Chairman and Neil Grainger was Secretary in 1965. What confused me was Stewart Hall. aka K.S.Hall was actually Stuart Hall and was TVRCC Technical Advisor long before he became Chairman. Never knew he worked at factory, must have been a long trip to work every day. Thank You.

[Seabass]

Guys - your daily battles are degrading to yourselves and respective commercial operations IMHO.

Why not make up and play nice?

[Fiscracer]

Adrian@ said:

I now have checked my paperwork and my listing (along with invoice/parts numbers from B & G) is for 10 or 25 spline.
Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 28th February 15:59

Quite right typo 25 not 23

[thegamekeeper]

Seabass said:

Guys - your daily battles are degrading to yourselves and respective commercial operations IMHO.

Why not make up and play nice?

James, this is the second time in recent times you have been derogatory about me and Adrian. Adrian and I go back a long time, we are good friends and have drunk much beer together over the years. We do NOT always agree but we do contribute for the common good of Classic TVR owners in these forums and speaking for myself for ABSOLUTELY NO COMMERCIAL GAIN. You seem to not recognise banter, others do. You remind me of the person who watches a TV programme from beginning to end and then complain its in bad taste to which I say if you no likey no lighty.

You have twice now commented on my business. please allow me to worry about that, none of your concern and to accuse me of degrading myself is an insult, but you are entitled to your opinion. You have entered a discussion on S1 differentials, being critical of others but contributing NOTHING. Looking back over your contributions in general you contribute very little.

I am quite happy to match your level of contribution and invite you to fill the void. Adrian contributes much knowledge to these forums and I hope some think I do too.

[Adrian@]

thegamekeeper said:

James, this is the second time in recent times you have been derogatory about me and Adrian. Adrian and I go back a long time, we are good friends and have drunk much beer together over the years. We do NOT always agree but we do contribute for the common good of Classic TVR owners in these forums and speaking for myself for ABSOLUTELY NO COMMERCIAL GAIN. You seem to not recognise banter, others do. You remind me of the person who watches a TV programme from beginning to end and then complain its in bad taste to which I say if you no likey no lighty.

You have twice now commented on my business. please allow me to worry about that, none of your concern and to accuse me of degrading myself is an insult, but you are entitled to your opinion. You have entered a discussion on S1 differentials, being critical of others but contributing NOTHING. Looking back over your contributions in general you contribute very little.

I am quite happy to match your level of contribution and invite you to fill the void. Adrian contributes much knowledge to these forums and I hope some think I do too.

HEAR HEAR that man, I just wish I had got there first.

Please ...where is there a commercial business in TVR's, I think that the 2 TVR businesses that went bump in the last month, will tell you that there is none.
My wife will tell you I retired when I was 38 and have played ever since.

Adrian@

[Slow M]

stainless_steve said:

I've just come out of hospital and you two guys cheer me up no end,keep up the good work

Wishing you a speedy recovery.

Best,
B.

[stainless_steve]

thegamekeeper said:

Steve, sorry to hear you have been a burden on the NHS but equally hope you,re well and on the mend.. I think the last time we shared a forum on here I had just been held up at gunpoint in Londinium and soon after some scrotes had tried to borrow your SEAC in a similar way.


Sorry about posts, it was never my intention to amuse sTeVeR@

Thanks Steve,not too much of a burden just an Xray and lots of oxygen,i was very lucky only two minutes away from the autopsy table.

Being held up at gunpoint is not very nice indeed,infact i put that down to alot of the wifes illness,hope you are getting over it better than the wife.

I think the banter with you and Adrian is fantastic,you both know your stuff and like you say all the info you give is all FOC,i can see you both laughing about it over a

OP sorry about taking your thread off topic