Fighting a speeding ticket?
Discussion
I've just received my first NIP for 40mph in a 30 zone. I drove past the same camera today and almost sped past it again!
Bit of background. The road in in Newcastle, don't know the name (think it's Great North Rd?), but it has the town moor on the left and comes up to the Bluehouse roundabout. It's the camera just after the roundabout if anyone knows it. It was my first day working in a new building and the first time I'd driven on that road.
Thing is, the road heading up to the Bluehouse roundabout has a 50mph limit. I go straight over the roundabout and there are no speed limit signs on the exit of the roundabout. So I carried on assuming 50. Then a few hundred yards up the road there are 30mph signs painted on the road, but no actual signposts. These floor paintings are about 15 yards before the camera. Now from driving at 50, with cars ahead covering the signs on the ground and having no signposts, I think it's unreasonable to expect me to slow down for that camera.
Are there any rules about signage before a camera (there are camera sign posts, but not limit ones)? Is there any point in arguing with ticket?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I've managed to keep a clean licence so far and am annoyed about the circumstances. Had I been caught having a hoon, then it would be a fair cop and I'd take it like a man, but I feel conned.
>>> Edited by uriel on Wednesday 14th July 10:53
Bit of background. The road in in Newcastle, don't know the name (think it's Great North Rd?), but it has the town moor on the left and comes up to the Bluehouse roundabout. It's the camera just after the roundabout if anyone knows it. It was my first day working in a new building and the first time I'd driven on that road.
Thing is, the road heading up to the Bluehouse roundabout has a 50mph limit. I go straight over the roundabout and there are no speed limit signs on the exit of the roundabout. So I carried on assuming 50. Then a few hundred yards up the road there are 30mph signs painted on the road, but no actual signposts. These floor paintings are about 15 yards before the camera. Now from driving at 50, with cars ahead covering the signs on the ground and having no signposts, I think it's unreasonable to expect me to slow down for that camera.
Are there any rules about signage before a camera (there are camera sign posts, but not limit ones)? Is there any point in arguing with ticket?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I've managed to keep a clean licence so far and am annoyed about the circumstances. Had I been caught having a hoon, then it would be a fair cop and I'd take it like a man, but I feel conned.
>>> Edited by uriel on Wednesday 14th July 10:53
If its the piece of road I am visualising then the signs are there (before the Roundabout) so do a very careful check with a friend to back you up if missing.
Pixs, pixs, as white 30 on road doesnt cover the down restiction to 30. Should be metal signs. None present illegal limit.
DVD
Pixs, pixs, as white 30 on road doesnt cover the down restiction to 30. Should be metal signs. None present illegal limit.
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
If its the piece of road I am visualising then the signs are there (before the Roundabout) so do a very careful check with a friend to back you up if missing.
Pixs, pixs, as white 30 on road doesnt cover the down restiction to 30. Should be metal signs. None present illegal limit.
DVD
I just checked on the way home and yes, I'm an idiot, there are signs. But to be fair, they are covered with trees on both sides of the road. As is the camera
puggit said:
If the signs are covered by trees there could still be grounds to fight this. I'll let the legal types advise you how though
No defence. There is nothing under the TS &GD 2002 that covers erection of speed signs that they have to be visible and with visibility splay over x distance otherwise unlawful.
Just a point is the case of Hood v Lewsi 1976 that dictated it was no defence that the defendant did not see the speed limit signs.
Would appear there are lazy plods about as a word with the Council to have foliage chopped back if it is partly obscuring would have been to the public good.
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
Would appear there are lazy plods about as a word with the Council to have foliage chopped back if it is partly obscuring would have been to the public good.
DVD
Done this a number of times, never seen the Council get round to it.
The most recent time I reported it this to the appropriate department (when I actually found out which one...), I was told the Council won't do it "on spec", it's done in line with their ongoing maintenance.
When I asked for clarfication of what that actually meant, I was told that (a) the Council didn't have to justify themselves to me, and (b) they cut the trees, verges and hedges when they wanted to.
(I recently had to wait two and half hours for the council to turn up to clean a road after a bump. When they did eventually turn up, they didn't bring any gear with them, just came to look at what was needed (despite them having already been told). When they got back, they didn't bring enough sand/detergent with them, so they had to return to depot (twice) for more...
You can't make it up, I tell you.)
Dibble said:
(I recently had to wait two and half hours for the council to turn up to clean a road after a bump. When they did eventually turn up, they didn't bring any gear with them, just came to look at what was needed (despite them having already been told). When they got back, they didn't bring enough sand/detergent with them, so they had to return to depot (twice) for more...
You can't make it up, I tell you.)
Yep..I've seen it myself many times.....Of course the public don't really know about such numpties and why would they care when there are potential mistakes by Bib to highlight! Typical
Street
According to the ABD website, the law does require that signs must be visible. Go to www.abd.org.uk and click on the yellow-backed "Prosecuted for speeding? Check the speed limit signs complied with the law!" link. In there, the second section covers visibility.
If it's not the case the signs must be visible, then we're really moving into a dangerous world. "You missed our deliberately hidden sign? That'll be £60 please, sir."
If it's not the case the signs must be visible, then we're really moving into a dangerous world. "You missed our deliberately hidden sign? That'll be £60 please, sir."
Peter Ward said:
According to the ABD website, the law does require that signs must be visible. Go to <a href="http://www.abd.org.uk">www.abd.org.uk</a> and click on the yellow-backed "Prosecuted for speeding? Check the speed limit signs complied with the law!" link. In there, the second section covers visibility.
If it's not the case the signs must be visible, then we're really moving into a dangerous world. "You missed our deliberately hidden sign? That'll be £60 please, sir."
I must admit I thought that some pensioner in Norfolk? got his prosecution overturned because of signs hidden by overgrowth. Details lost in the mists of time and Scrumpy Jack.
(Post warning: giving it second thought; might have confused it with a case thrown out because a 30 still had an old 40 repeater hidden in the hedgerow and therefore illegally signed limit. If this was the case please ignore first comment, I'll get my coat.)
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Thursday 15th July 12:55
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