C126 - Talk to me
Discussion
Right. Been lurking in the classifieds for a while now, both national ones and abroad.
the SEC model from the mid-80s seems right up my alley. 500 and 560 stand out as the usual suspects, V8 just seems right in such a car. 560 have more go obviously, but I cant help but feel that the smoother 500-engine when taking into consideration the fact thats its much cheaper to maintain, could be a hidden gem.
I see there are also AMG-versions of the 500, churning out 276 bhp as opposed to 245. Are these engines also much more expensive to fix if something goes bang?
Can these cars be ran as dailies on a reasonable budget, or is that like using a Countach for grocery shopping?
I realise its "buy on condition rather than engine", but things being equal and being on a somewhat reasonable budget ( think 1000-2000 a year for fixing stuff rather than 5 grand. I want a useable classic for epic european jaunts, not anal alloy shining)
Cheers!
the SEC model from the mid-80s seems right up my alley. 500 and 560 stand out as the usual suspects, V8 just seems right in such a car. 560 have more go obviously, but I cant help but feel that the smoother 500-engine when taking into consideration the fact thats its much cheaper to maintain, could be a hidden gem.
I see there are also AMG-versions of the 500, churning out 276 bhp as opposed to 245. Are these engines also much more expensive to fix if something goes bang?
Can these cars be ran as dailies on a reasonable budget, or is that like using a Countach for grocery shopping?
I realise its "buy on condition rather than engine", but things being equal and being on a somewhat reasonable budget ( think 1000-2000 a year for fixing stuff rather than 5 grand. I want a useable classic for epic european jaunts, not anal alloy shining)
Cheers!
I love these too. Buy the best you can afford and they are a perfectly usable proposition. Post 86 facelift cars are more desirable and watch for rust, there is a part near the bottom of the rear screen which can cause trouble and be tricky to fix. As for engine, I would prefer a 560 for the extra power, but better a good 500 than a rough 560 and avoid anything with chrome arches. Oh and don't forget to post pics, lots of pics! 
I too don't subscribe to the 'buy on condition' addage. If you want a particular engine / chassis combo then wait, it will turn up. Compromising with a different engine just because the car is mint doesn't get away from the fact that the engine or whatever isn't the one you want.
Stick to your guns. If you fancy a 560 then wait for one and it will turn up (sounds a bit Kevin Costnerish but there you go...)
Take a look at Mercseller.com. Talk to Richard who runs the site if there's nothing there that fits the bill & he'll do his best to find it for you. Good guy.
Stick to your guns. If you fancy a 560 then wait for one and it will turn up (sounds a bit Kevin Costnerish but there you go...)
Take a look at Mercseller.com. Talk to Richard who runs the site if there's nothing there that fits the bill & he'll do his best to find it for you. Good guy.
)They are excellent cars, made in the 'old' MB tradition but they do need to have been maintained properly. A lot of SECs were 'treated' to questionable bodykits which, IMHO, spoil the looks.
If you are considering a 560, are you aware that there were 2 engine specifications? It was either in KAT form (ie with catalytic converter for US market) or in ECE guise for use with leaded fuel only. However, the 4.2 and 5.0, certainly from 1986, were offered in KAT (ie US catalyst) or RUF types, the latter being suitable for later fitting a catalytic converter, and thus suitable (presumably) for unleaded.
I don't know what AMG did to the 500 engine to get 275bhp. However, the American KAT spec 560 provided a quoted 272bhp as against 300bhp for the Euro spec one.
As the newest is now 20 years old, I would certainly be looking at condition and maintenance history rather than a specific engine. Ideally, look for both items, but it could take longer
If you are considering a 560, are you aware that there were 2 engine specifications? It was either in KAT form (ie with catalytic converter for US market) or in ECE guise for use with leaded fuel only. However, the 4.2 and 5.0, certainly from 1986, were offered in KAT (ie US catalyst) or RUF types, the latter being suitable for later fitting a catalytic converter, and thus suitable (presumably) for unleaded.
I don't know what AMG did to the 500 engine to get 275bhp. However, the American KAT spec 560 provided a quoted 272bhp as against 300bhp for the Euro spec one.
As the newest is now 20 years old, I would certainly be looking at condition and maintenance history rather than a specific engine. Ideally, look for both items, but it could take longer
A 560 costs no more to maintain than a 500. The engines are all but identical: the 560 has a longer stroke, that's all. While some parts might differ, they cost the same whether it be three figures at the dealer or two at a breaker's. A 560 will cost more to run than a 500 because it will consume more fuel, but not much more. A 560 is much faster than a 500. I have put a 560motor (300bhp) in my 500 (245bhp) and it was well worth it.
The other big difference is that 560s have self-levelling rear suspension as standard. But it is not a fragile system and, anyway, a pair suspension spheres costs much the same as a pair of shock absorbers.
There are very, very few true AMG c126s in the UK. Almost none with mechanical work. For the record, you could stick with 16valves and have the engine bored and stroked and fitted with hotter cams: 5.4 is the most common size, although they went up to 6.0. Or you could have AMG 32valve heads and have the engine bored and stroked &c, &c. The difficulty with all AMG engines is replacement parts: no chance.
There are enough of these cars that you can decide what one you want and wait for the right one to turn up.
560s typically cost 50-100% more than equivalent 500s.
Better to buy in good order than to buy a wreck and think you'll bring it back to good condition. Mission impossible. It's tricky enough standing still condition wise.
You can use them daily. I do about 15,000miles a year in mine. It's not truly a daily driver because we have four other cars but it is definitely not reserved for high days and holidays. I take it whenever I feel like it (or when it is at the front of my yard). I have driven it 800miles in a day and 600miles in a single sitting. I use it to commute. I use it to go shopping. I use it for pleasure. I use it for touring holidays. It's very reliable and it doesn't cost much to run. It is also practical: it has an huge boot, room for four, an huge tank. It's very comfortable: amazingly comfortable. It's fast.
Here is on holiday in Soctland:
The other big difference is that 560s have self-levelling rear suspension as standard. But it is not a fragile system and, anyway, a pair suspension spheres costs much the same as a pair of shock absorbers.
There are very, very few true AMG c126s in the UK. Almost none with mechanical work. For the record, you could stick with 16valves and have the engine bored and stroked and fitted with hotter cams: 5.4 is the most common size, although they went up to 6.0. Or you could have AMG 32valve heads and have the engine bored and stroked &c, &c. The difficulty with all AMG engines is replacement parts: no chance.
There are enough of these cars that you can decide what one you want and wait for the right one to turn up.
560s typically cost 50-100% more than equivalent 500s.
Better to buy in good order than to buy a wreck and think you'll bring it back to good condition. Mission impossible. It's tricky enough standing still condition wise.
You can use them daily. I do about 15,000miles a year in mine. It's not truly a daily driver because we have four other cars but it is definitely not reserved for high days and holidays. I take it whenever I feel like it (or when it is at the front of my yard). I have driven it 800miles in a day and 600miles in a single sitting. I use it to commute. I use it to go shopping. I use it for pleasure. I use it for touring holidays. It's very reliable and it doesn't cost much to run. It is also practical: it has an huge boot, room for four, an huge tank. It's very comfortable: amazingly comfortable. It's fast.
Here is on holiday in Soctland:
tonys said:
If you are considering a 560, are you aware that there were 2 engine specifications? It was either in KAT form (ie with catalytic converter for US market) or in ECE guise for use with leaded fuel only. However, the 4.2 and 5.0, certainly from 1986, were offered in KAT (ie US catalyst) or RUF types, the latter being suitable for later fitting a catalytic converter, and thus suitable (presumably) for unleaded.
This isn't quite right. All 126s run on unleaded without modification. All gen II (86 and up) will run on this new unleaded with a bit of ethanol in it. There were three versions of the 560: US, cat-equipped and cat-ready. The US cars put out something daft like 238hp (according to the US brochure). The US cars seem to have been totally smothered. European cat-equipped cars put out 272bhp. And ECE cars put out 300bhp. You don't need to worry about this because all UK 560 cars had 300bhp.
There were a number of engine output changes throughout the years. In about 1987, the 500 went up from 245bhp to 265bhp. I think this would be a noticeable difference but not such a big deal that I'd take a poor car for it.
The important thing to take from this is you can use unleaded in any SEC with no concerns at all.
Sorry, Tony, I don't mean to be a pedant, but the leaded/unleaded thing is bound to be important to any potential buyer.
Great replies, just what I looked for.
Was considering this one:
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
Looks like a genuine AMG, but if it is true like you say about the AMG replacements ( no chance), then I Guess as soon as something goes pop, its either 10 grand worth of parts or scrap it.
Thats not a very entertaining proposition, best stick to the original unfettled ones...
Was considering this one:
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
Looks like a genuine AMG, but if it is true like you say about the AMG replacements ( no chance), then I Guess as soon as something goes pop, its either 10 grand worth of parts or scrap it.
Thats not a very entertaining proposition, best stick to the original unfettled ones...
Brave pills required, I'd say. The leather and extended wood on the door cards are consistent with what AMG was doing at that time. The widebody could be period or later. You'd have to know what you were doing with that one: the ad doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
I didn't realise you're in Europe. They're a lot more expensive over there for some reason.
I didn't realise you're in Europe. They're a lot more expensive over there for some reason.
r129sl said:
tonys said:
If you are considering a 560, are you aware that there were 2 engine specifications? It was either in KAT form (ie with catalytic converter for US market) or in ECE guise for use with leaded fuel only. However, the 4.2 and 5.0, certainly from 1986, were offered in KAT (ie US catalyst) or RUF types, the latter being suitable for later fitting a catalytic converter, and thus suitable (presumably) for unleaded.
This isn't quite right. All 126s run on unleaded without modification. All gen II (86 and up) will run on this new unleaded with a bit of ethanol in it. There were three versions of the 560: US, cat-equipped and cat-ready. The US cars put out something daft like 238hp (according to the US brochure). The US cars seem to have been totally smothered. European cat-equipped cars put out 272bhp. And ECE cars put out 300bhp. You don't need to worry about this because all UK 560 cars had 300bhp.
There were a number of engine output changes throughout the years. In about 1987, the 500 went up from 245bhp to 265bhp. I think this would be a noticeable difference but not such a big deal that I'd take a poor car for it.
The important thing to take from this is you can use unleaded in any SEC with no concerns at all.
Sorry, Tony, I don't mean to be a pedant, but the leaded/unleaded thing is bound to be important to any potential buyer.
I took my entry from James Taylor's book 1994 book on 1980's Mercs because I remembered there was something about it from when I was looking at 126s about 10years ago, at about the time leaded was being phased out. I haven't looked into it since then.
flatline84 said:
Thing is, I plan on using this as a veteran. Which means it has to be 1985-1986 at its newest.
So 500 and 560 have similar running costs and similar reliability?
The 560 gives about 18-20mpg in ordinary use; the 500 gives 20-24. Otherwise they're much the same. The 560 is not more fragile than the 500 and in almost every respect they are the same car. Where is the 560 different? Well, it has different cams, a different crank and presumably different rods, but none of that is ever going to break and, besides, none of it is more expensive than its equivalent on the 500. It has a different fuel computer and a different electronic ignition regulator (although they are interchangeable) and a different warm up regulator but, again, none of that is going to break and none of it is more expensive than the equivalent stuff on a 500. UK 560s have SLS but it is robust and no more expensive to repair and maintain than standard rear suspension. 560s also run different rubber, 215/65 R15 against the standard 205/65 R15.So 500 and 560 have similar running costs and similar reliability?
There is a big change in 1986. The model was facelifted. Quickest way to tell is pre-facelfit cars have ribbed side panels and 14" baroque wheels. Post-facelift cars have smooth side panels and 15" flatface wheels. I actually prefer the look of pre-facelift cars. Power-wise, pre-facelift you have a 380 and 500; post-facelift you have 420, 500 and 560. Facelifted cars carry a premium, so you can pick up a very nice pre-facelift 500 for less money than a later car although they are harder to come by.
Personally I would avoid anything that is not absolutely stock, standard and unmodified. If you're looking for a veteran for tax reasons, I'd focus on finding a 1981 to 1985 500 SEC.
Spot on what Im after. a 1981-1985 carries next to no road tax, classic car insurance and way lower bills in general..
On top of that you dont have to pay the import tax, which can be like 15.000 pounds on a 1986 560.
How is the prefacelift 500 SEC performance? Was a little disappointed that someone in here classified it as "brisk but not fast".
Surely 300 LB of torque and 245 BHP should move a 1500 kilo car along nicely?
On top of that you dont have to pay the import tax, which can be like 15.000 pounds on a 1986 560.
How is the prefacelift 500 SEC performance? Was a little disappointed that someone in here classified it as "brisk but not fast".
Surely 300 LB of torque and 245 BHP should move a 1500 kilo car along nicely?
flatline84 said:
How is the prefacelift 500 SEC performance? Was a little disappointed that someone in here classified it as "brisk but not fast".
Surely 300 LB of torque and 245 BHP should move a 1500 kilo car along nicely?
I think "brisk but not fast" may be right, certainly contemporary road tests (in which the car was pitched against the Aston Martin V8 and such like) noted that to get real go, one had to change down to third or even second. Surely 300 LB of torque and 245 BHP should move a 1500 kilo car along nicely?
The over-riding performance characteristic of these cars is long-leggedness. So the gearing is very high: 100mph is about 3,000rpm. Even first gear is good for 47mph, second for 80mph, third for 125mph. Their performance forte is very high speed cruising: they are effortless between 70 and 110mph. Full bore acceleration in second (i.e. 40 to 80mph) is quite impressive but involves a bit of fuss. They are not back road racers; nor are they much cop in the urban drag strip (they will do the traffic light grand prix, just unwillingly); but for a very fast run from Paris to Geneva they are excellent (sub-4.5 hours, one tank of fuel).
Here is a pre-facelift in its natural habitat:
And here is one in classic guise, in lovely cypress green metalic:
Don't get rid of the 190.
Do get rid of that towbar. I'm not a big lover of the extra woodwork, either!
The multi-link rear suspension introduced on the w201 is leagues ahead of the semi-trailing arm set up which departed with the 126. Whereas the 126 is very comfortable, the 190 is confidence-inspiring. The 126 does have excellent high speed straight line stability, however.
Do get rid of that towbar. I'm not a big lover of the extra woodwork, either!
The multi-link rear suspension introduced on the w201 is leagues ahead of the semi-trailing arm set up which departed with the 126. Whereas the 126 is very comfortable, the 190 is confidence-inspiring. The 126 does have excellent high speed straight line stability, however.
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