Is it a van or a car? It affects the limit!
Discussion
Recent correspondence in Daily Telegraph from a geezer who got nicked on the A5. I'd post a link but you have to log in to the DT site so here is the text.
in reply
FiF comments,
I cannot find the mgvw for the Expert but would guess it is above 2 tonnes as the max payload is in the order of 800kgs. Does anyone know for sure?
Then again it opens up the question about large MPV's and off-roaders. In many cases their mgvw will be above 2 tonnes yet they are subject to the car limit.
Is it just me that thinks this legislation is somewhat stupid or have I misunderstood something?
FiF
edited, one day I'll get the formatting codes right 1st time. DOH!
>>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 14th July 14:10
N.M. Ross on Wye said:
I am a retired academic who uses a light van for private motoring, a Peugeot Expert 1·9 that is classified on its V5 registration document as a light goods vehicle. On the windscreen disc it is graded LGV1. In November 2003 I received a speeding ticket for travelling at 57mph on the A5 in Shropshire. The police confirmed that this stretch of road carries a national speed limit of 60mph. I queried the notice and was told that my vehicle is registered with the DVLA as a "light goods vehicle under 7·5 tonnes maximum laden weight" and as such is "restricted to 50mph on normal roads". I accepted my fine and three penalty points but have queried my vehicle's classification with the DVLA. What is going on?
in reply
Honest John correctly said:
According to Hughes Guide to Traffic Law for the Enforcement Officer, a "car-derived van" is subject to the same vehicle speed limits as a car. Unfortunately an Expert is not a "car-derived van" and the fact it has spawned a car does not alter that fact. Car-derived vans are defined by being under two tonnes maximum laden weight. Vans above that but under 7·5 tonnes m/w are restricted to 50mph on single carriageways and 60mph on dual carriageways. Drivers of mid-sized vans such as the Peugeot Expert or Ford Transit Connect (some of which are CDVs, some light goods vehicles) should be aware of this. It's all written up in The Highway Code.
FiF comments,
I cannot find the mgvw for the Expert but would guess it is above 2 tonnes as the max payload is in the order of 800kgs. Does anyone know for sure?
Then again it opens up the question about large MPV's and off-roaders. In many cases their mgvw will be above 2 tonnes yet they are subject to the car limit.
Is it just me that thinks this legislation is somewhat stupid or have I misunderstood something?
FiF
edited, one day I'll get the formatting codes right 1st time. DOH!
>>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 14th July 14:10
Flat in Fifth said:
Recent correspondence in Daily Telegraph from a geezer who got nicked on the A5. I'd post a link but you have to log in to the DT site so here is the text.
N.M. Ross on Wye said:
I am a retired academic who uses a light van for private motoring, a Peugeot Expert 1·9 that is classified on its V5 registration document as a light goods vehicle. On the windscreen disc it is graded LGV1. In November 2003 I received a speeding ticket for travelling at 57mph on the A5 in Shropshire. The police confirmed that this stretch of road carries a national speed limit of 60mph. I queried the notice and was told that my vehicle is registered with the DVLA as a "light goods vehicle under 7·5 tonnes maximum laden weight" and as such is "restricted to 50mph on normal roads". I accepted my fine and three penalty points but have queried my vehicle's classification with the DVLA. What is going on?
in reply
Honest John correctly said:
According to Hughes Guide to Traffic Law for the Enforcement Officer, a "car-derived van" is subject to the same vehicle speed limits as a car. Unfortunately an Expert is not a "car-derived van" and the fact it has spawned a car does not alter that fact. Car-derived vans are defined by being under two tonnes maximum laden weight. Vans above that but under 7·5 tonnes m/w are restricted to 50mph on single carriageways and 60mph on dual carriageways. Drivers of mid-sized vans such as the Peugeot Expert or Ford Transit Connect (some of which are CDVs, some light goods vehicles) should be aware of this. It's all written up in The Highway Code.
FiF comments,
I cannot find the mgvw for the Expert but would guess it is above 2 tonnes as the max payload is in the order of 800kgs. Does anyone know for sure?
Then again it opens up the question about large MPV's and off-roaders. In many cases their mgvw will be above 2 tonnes yet they are subject to the car limit.
Is it just me that thinks this legislation is somewhat stupid or have I misunderstood something?
FiF
edited, one day I'll get the formatting codes right 1st time. DOH!
>>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 14th July 14:10
I understand that a car-derived van is one which is based on the car and has windows behind the B pillar.
For example, the Ford Escort van used to have tiny width, full height windows behind the slam post (B pillar) and was thus classed as a car-derived van.
The diddy windows served no other purpose.
OK let me ask the question another way.
What would you have thought the limit was if driving one of these >>
www.johnharrisonpeugeot.co.uk/directory/peugeot_expert.htm
and why does it make sense for a different limit to apply to a monster with off road tyres?
What would you have thought the limit was if driving one of these >>
www.johnharrisonpeugeot.co.uk/directory/peugeot_expert.htm
and why does it make sense for a different limit to apply to a monster with off road tyres?
Fif
Advertised as and to me looks like a 'Good vehicle" i.e.
"constructed or adapted for the carriage of goods",
and
under 7.5 tonnes max laden weight, not towing a trailer and not a car derived van, then
70 M.way 60 D/C 50 other road 30 mph restricted road.
(RTRA 84 Schedule 6)
Definition of car derived van: " goods vehicle which is constructed or adapted as a derivative of a passenger vehicle and which has a max laden weight not exceeding 2 tons.
That chariot you refer to has a payload of nearly a ton so with vehicle weight will put it over 2 tons so not a CDV.
DVD
Advertised as and to me looks like a 'Good vehicle" i.e.
"constructed or adapted for the carriage of goods",
and
under 7.5 tonnes max laden weight, not towing a trailer and not a car derived van, then
70 M.way 60 D/C 50 other road 30 mph restricted road.
(RTRA 84 Schedule 6)
Definition of car derived van: " goods vehicle which is constructed or adapted as a derivative of a passenger vehicle and which has a max laden weight not exceeding 2 tons.
That chariot you refer to has a payload of nearly a ton so with vehicle weight will put it over 2 tons so not a CDV.
DVD
Flat in Fifth said:Gross Vehicle Weights:
I cannot find the mgvw for the Expert but would guess it is above 2 tonnes as the max payload is in the order of 800kgs. Does anyone know for sure?
Van Diesel 1.9 2205 kg
Van HDi 110 2330 kg
Combi HDi 110 2505 kg
From Peugeot site's Specification Brochure
MC
run Tafia said:
I understand that a car-derived van is one which is based on the car and has windows behind the B pillar.
For example, the Ford Escort van used to have tiny width, full height windows behind the slam post (B pillar) and was thus classed as a car-derived van.
The diddy windows served no other purpose.
The B Reg Fiesta van I had was called a CAR DERIVED Van and had no window beyond the B post.
Later I changed it 'back' to a car.
IIRC when i contacted the DVLA and asked to change V5 to hatchback they refused and changed it to Van with Rear side windows. I then asked for CAR derived van with rear side windows, but they refused on the grounds of space on the V5. They also told me to contact Inland Revenue so they could calculate the car tax, but luckily the Tax demand was for zero as the original Van was older than 6 years.
My insurance company strangly asked for an engineers report, but backed down after a few minutes discussion.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Yes yes YES.
....and many Tranny/Merc drivers don't know that.....
DVD
Thanks DVD, as you might expect you and I are in total agreement about the legislation.
Just trying to point out the potential absurdity of it.
As major clanger points out (ta) the Pug Expert is above 2000 kgs, which is what you and I suggested above.
Plus I'll point out the mgvw for a Galaxy is well above 2000 kgs, as is my Mundano, about 2200 kgs IIRC.
As for whoever's (sorry!) V class,
kerb = 2460 kgs
max = 3100 kgs according to my info
And the V-class is derived from the Vito n'est ce pas?
So van limits apply or ??
Bet there's a few folks checking their VED disc and V5s now.
Is this another law of unintended consequences? ie when the speed and weight limits were set vehicles were a lot slimmer?
Just thought it was worth bringing to folks attention.
FiF
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