Thinking seriously about M3 - advice.....
Discussion
Hi, I originally posted this in the GG forum a couple of weeks ago, and asked the mods to move it. But they never did – so I’ll post it here.
After selling my Tamora before we moved to Italy (back in the UK now – didn’t like Italy as much..), I realise how much I miss that car and bitterly regret selling it, and would like something that would give me the same ‘feelings’ when driving. No matter how hard I try to reason that we don't need another car, I cannot for the life of me shake the 'withdrawal symptoms' of how that car made me feel - the 'fill-in' MGZT-T 190 we bought when we came back does not sate my thirst....not even close.
I could go for another Tamora, but TBH, with TVR gone, I think it would be too much of a risk, part-wise (The same is happening with the little MG – becoming harder to find decent specialists and the price of parts are often more than the car’s worth!) – So I was thinking of something with more or less the same power, but with four seats.
I concluded that a decent M3 convertible (must be open topped) would fit the bill nicely. I would have £15-18k to play with. With that in mind, what would I be looking at, age and spec wise? I prefer nice unmolested examples. And are they really as good to drive as people say?
I looked at the Z4 M's, but my wife wants to keep her MGF Trophy 160, and to be honest, I don't blame her (just spent over £2k putting it right - and it is 'fun' - just not on the same planet as the TVR was..), so two 2-seaters is (almost) out of the question, as we have two kids – But a Z4M is very tempting, too, especially as prices aren’t as high as they once were.
After selling my Tamora before we moved to Italy (back in the UK now – didn’t like Italy as much..), I realise how much I miss that car and bitterly regret selling it, and would like something that would give me the same ‘feelings’ when driving. No matter how hard I try to reason that we don't need another car, I cannot for the life of me shake the 'withdrawal symptoms' of how that car made me feel - the 'fill-in' MGZT-T 190 we bought when we came back does not sate my thirst....not even close.
I could go for another Tamora, but TBH, with TVR gone, I think it would be too much of a risk, part-wise (The same is happening with the little MG – becoming harder to find decent specialists and the price of parts are often more than the car’s worth!) – So I was thinking of something with more or less the same power, but with four seats.
I concluded that a decent M3 convertible (must be open topped) would fit the bill nicely. I would have £15-18k to play with. With that in mind, what would I be looking at, age and spec wise? I prefer nice unmolested examples. And are they really as good to drive as people say?
I looked at the Z4 M's, but my wife wants to keep her MGF Trophy 160, and to be honest, I don't blame her (just spent over £2k putting it right - and it is 'fun' - just not on the same planet as the TVR was..), so two 2-seaters is (almost) out of the question, as we have two kids – But a Z4M is very tempting, too, especially as prices aren’t as high as they once were.
Your budget will literally give you the pick of pretty much any E46 you choose (with the CS and CSL ruled out as they only come in Coupe form)
Having driven plenty of convertibles and own a coupe, the coupe is clearly the drivers car out of the 2 - but both are incredibly good at what they do.
I would try looking at a few 05/55/06 plate cars and see what you think. Make sure you look at a good few, as there is a massive difference between the best and worst condition cars. Also, don't rule out a slightly higher mileage car, it's always better to buy based on condition and history as opposed to mileage or spec.
The only real significant problems are the subframe mounting failure, headgasket and vanos. The latter 2 are less common, the former being much more common and its an expensive fix. BMW should fix under goodwill if the car is 10 years old though.
Having driven plenty of convertibles and own a coupe, the coupe is clearly the drivers car out of the 2 - but both are incredibly good at what they do.
I would try looking at a few 05/55/06 plate cars and see what you think. Make sure you look at a good few, as there is a massive difference between the best and worst condition cars. Also, don't rule out a slightly higher mileage car, it's always better to buy based on condition and history as opposed to mileage or spec.
The only real significant problems are the subframe mounting failure, headgasket and vanos. The latter 2 are less common, the former being much more common and its an expensive fix. BMW should fix under goodwill if the car is 10 years old though.
Buy the M3 Vert. I was in your position and got mine a few weeks ago. Paid top whack for a mint low mileage 06 example. It's a work of art, sounds gorgeous when you floor it and 36mpg on a motorway run. What's not to like about that ? Not even driven it with the roof down yet 
Where is the heatwave they promised ?
Where is the heatwave they promised ?
Way back when they were new I ran a Coupe, immediately followed by a Cab. Whatever you do if you're going for a Cab try to get 18" wheels as opposed to 19"s. Everyone is pretty much agreed (and I certainly found) that, in Coupe form, the car is a better drive on 18"s and the difference is even more pronounced on the Cab. Mine was on 18"s and I back to backed it with a friend's on 19"s and he got the dealer to swap him to 18"s! If you only ever drive a 19" shod car you'll be v happy BUT 18"s are the way to go given the choice.
Pugsey said:
Way back when they were new I ran a Coupe, immediately followed by a Cab. Whatever you do if you're going for a Cab try to get 18" wheels as opposed to 19"s. Everyone is pretty much agreed (and I certainly found) that, in Coupe form, the car is a better drive on 18"s and the difference is even more pronounced on the Cab. Mine was on 18"s and I back to backed it with a friend's on 19"s and he got the dealer to swap him to 18"s! If you only ever drive a 19" shod car you'll be v happy BUT 18"s are the way to go given the choice.
19" wheels! No - a little too 'bling' for me - prefer ride and handling to oversize trinketry....I would think that 18" would be perfect.chris watton said:
Pugsey said:
Way back when they were new I ran a Coupe, immediately followed by a Cab. Whatever you do if you're going for a Cab try to get 18" wheels as opposed to 19"s. Everyone is pretty much agreed (and I certainly found) that, in Coupe form, the car is a better drive on 18"s and the difference is even more pronounced on the Cab. Mine was on 18"s and I back to backed it with a friend's on 19"s and he got the dealer to swap him to 18"s! If you only ever drive a 19" shod car you'll be v happy BUT 18"s are the way to go given the choice.
19" wheels! No - a little too 'bling' for me - prefer ride and handling to oversize trinketry....I would think that 18" would be perfect.The M3 convertible is a stunning looking motor and the 18's just dont do it justice IMO,plus you will struggle to find one with 18's anyway.
And yes,I did try one on 18's,better ride,but the 19's look soooo much better.
Nedzilla said:
chris watton said:
Pugsey said:
Way back when they were new I ran a Coupe, immediately followed by a Cab. Whatever you do if you're going for a Cab try to get 18" wheels as opposed to 19"s. Everyone is pretty much agreed (and I certainly found) that, in Coupe form, the car is a better drive on 18"s and the difference is even more pronounced on the Cab. Mine was on 18"s and I back to backed it with a friend's on 19"s and he got the dealer to swap him to 18"s! If you only ever drive a 19" shod car you'll be v happy BUT 18"s are the way to go given the choice.
19" wheels! No - a little too 'bling' for me - prefer ride and handling to oversize trinketry....I would think that 18" would be perfect.The M3 convertible is a stunning looking motor and the 18's just dont do it justice IMO,plus you will struggle to find one with 18's anyway.
And yes,I did try one on 18's,better ride,but the 19's look soooo much better.
However when we tried the 18" shod Cab against a 19" shod Coupe most were suprised to agreed that, over a typical UK B road, the Cab was actually the maginally 'better' car - suprising not only due to the smaller wheels but also due to the fractionally more 'supple' nature of the roofless chassis. The Cab was only fractions behind the Coupe on track too despite weighing a bit more. Sometimes this Cabs are dynamically flawed arguement is over done a bit (not just on BMWs). Bottom line they're all great drives no matter which wheels you plonk on.
PS Lovely looking car you've got there. Fond memories. E46 still the best resolved M3 looks wise for me.
Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 28th February 19:04
slimtater said:
It sounds like you still have a bit of a TVR itch and I am afraid the M3 won't scratch it!
I do, and it is very hard to explain or quantify. I know it makes little sense, but sometimes I miss it so much that I get really down about it! No matter how hard I try to reason with myself, I cannot shake the feeling that I 'need' something similar. The Tamora pressed all the right buttons all of the time - and I am assuming a decent M3 may help part way to satisfy. I cannot tell my wife to get rid of her car because I want another 2-seater, as she absolutley loves it. Cerbera's are getting on a bit now so a sporty 4-seater is really my only choice right now. More importantly, BMW are still in business.Although I think I shall always long for the simplicity and 'rawness' of a lump of fibreglass on a tubular chassis with no driving aids - but I also know that concessions have to be made....
If it helps, I had the same dilemma last year and thought about persuading my wife to have something a bit more fun for me to borrow yet ok for her. In the end, I decided to sell the T350 and buy an M3.
So when I had bought the M3 and still not sold the T350, the family decision was to keep both as even she admitted she couldn't part with it. Ok, I was in a lucky position but I truly know from experience that the M3 would not fill a Tiv void.
Good luck!!
So when I had bought the M3 and still not sold the T350, the family decision was to keep both as even she admitted she couldn't part with it. Ok, I was in a lucky position but I truly know from experience that the M3 would not fill a Tiv void.
Good luck!!
I think you may be disappointed with the lack of apparent grunt. The M3 power is delivered so smoothly that sometimes it doesnt feel fast when compared to cars with turbos or less linear delivery. Think you need to drive one and see what you think as its a very personal decision. Also its a little quieter and more reliable than a TVR :-)
Thanks again, guys - you have wrote what I thought. However, I still think I will go for one. I think I will test drive an M3 and Z4M - I assume the latter is a better comparison to a Tamora - but that means we would have to have 3 cars......
ETA - Never owned a BMW before..
ETA - Never owned a BMW before..
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 29th February 10:41
Just my 2p but I sold my much loved TVR T350c towards the end of last year after a 4-year and 25k mile love affair (along with my daily driver) as I wanted to consolidate back down to one car.
I spent ages looking at what to replace it with but the main realistic contenders were, Z4MC, Audi S5, RS4, or Z3MC. After test driving the S5 I was very bored and it didnt do anything for me. The Z4MC was good and I like them a lot but I thought it was trying to emulate the TVR too much and actually would have been a disappointment in comparison. The Z3MC was looking like a good option but I really didnt fancy paying upwards of £12k for a decent one considering they are all over 10 years old and seem quite old in general. I didnt get to do anything about the RS4 but it has too many doors for me.
In the end an Estoril Blue e46 M3 Coupe came up on Autotrader with only 60k miles and it really caught my eye (Estoril Blue has always been one of my favourite colours). I had to date dismissed the e46 because I had owned 2 (non-M's) before the TVR and I didnt really want to revisit old ground. I went to view the car the following day and drove it home that day.
I've had it for just over 2 months now and I can safely say I love it. Is it a TVR? No. Is it as fast as the TVR? No. Is it as much fun as the TVR? No. Am I 100% happy with it? 100% Yes. I ended up spending half my original budget and I have ended up with a really fantastic all-round car thats as happy round town (with TVR equivalent 15 mpg) as it is when driven in anger. Its also just sailed though MOT with no advisories at all.
Will I strive to get another TVR? Yes. But more importantly I am fairly sure I will still have the e46 M3 as it really is a great proposition. (Even in SMG which I thought I would just try and actually really like)
Hope that helps...
I spent ages looking at what to replace it with but the main realistic contenders were, Z4MC, Audi S5, RS4, or Z3MC. After test driving the S5 I was very bored and it didnt do anything for me. The Z4MC was good and I like them a lot but I thought it was trying to emulate the TVR too much and actually would have been a disappointment in comparison. The Z3MC was looking like a good option but I really didnt fancy paying upwards of £12k for a decent one considering they are all over 10 years old and seem quite old in general. I didnt get to do anything about the RS4 but it has too many doors for me.
In the end an Estoril Blue e46 M3 Coupe came up on Autotrader with only 60k miles and it really caught my eye (Estoril Blue has always been one of my favourite colours). I had to date dismissed the e46 because I had owned 2 (non-M's) before the TVR and I didnt really want to revisit old ground. I went to view the car the following day and drove it home that day.
I've had it for just over 2 months now and I can safely say I love it. Is it a TVR? No. Is it as fast as the TVR? No. Is it as much fun as the TVR? No. Am I 100% happy with it? 100% Yes. I ended up spending half my original budget and I have ended up with a really fantastic all-round car thats as happy round town (with TVR equivalent 15 mpg) as it is when driven in anger. Its also just sailed though MOT with no advisories at all.
Will I strive to get another TVR? Yes. But more importantly I am fairly sure I will still have the e46 M3 as it really is a great proposition. (Even in SMG which I thought I would just try and actually really like)
Hope that helps...
Edited by stub101 on Thursday 1st March 14:32
Edited by stub101 on Thursday 1st March 14:36
stub101 said:
Just my 2p but I sold my much loved TVR T350c towards the end of last year after a 4-year and 25k mile love affair (along with my daily driver) as I wanted to consolidate back down to one car.
I spent ages looking at what to replace it with but the main realistic contenders were, Z4MC, Audi S5, RS4, or Z3MC. After test driving the S5 I was very bored and it didnt do anything for me. The Z4MC was good and I like them a lot but I thought it was trying to emulate the TVR too much and actually would have been a disappointment in comparison. The Z3MC was looking like a good option but I really didnt fancy paying upwards of £12k for a decent one considering they are all over 10 years old and seem quite old in general. I didnt get to do anything about the RS4 but it has too many doors for me.
In the end an Estoril Blue e46 M3 Coupe came up on Autotrader with only 60k miles and it really caught my eye (Estoril Blue has always been one of my favourite colours). I had to date dismissed the e46 because I had owned 2 (non-M's) before the TVR and I didnt really want to revisit old ground. I went to view the car the following day and drove it home that day.
I've had it for just over 2 months now and I can safely say I love it. Is it a TVR? No. Is it as fast as the TVR? No. Is it as much fun as the TVR? No. Am I 100% happy with it? 100% Yes. I ended up spending half my original budget and I have ended up with a really fantastic all-round car thats as happy round town (with TVR equivalent 15 mpg) as it is when driven in anger. Its also just sailed though MOT with no advisories at all.
Will I strive to get another TVR? Yes. But more importantly I am fairly sure I will still have the e46 M3 as it really is a great proposition. (Even in SMG which I thought I would just try and actually really like)
Hope that helps...
I have just realised (very belatedly) that I never responded to your excellent post, so I apologise, and thank you for a great post!I spent ages looking at what to replace it with but the main realistic contenders were, Z4MC, Audi S5, RS4, or Z3MC. After test driving the S5 I was very bored and it didnt do anything for me. The Z4MC was good and I like them a lot but I thought it was trying to emulate the TVR too much and actually would have been a disappointment in comparison. The Z3MC was looking like a good option but I really didnt fancy paying upwards of £12k for a decent one considering they are all over 10 years old and seem quite old in general. I didnt get to do anything about the RS4 but it has too many doors for me.
In the end an Estoril Blue e46 M3 Coupe came up on Autotrader with only 60k miles and it really caught my eye (Estoril Blue has always been one of my favourite colours). I had to date dismissed the e46 because I had owned 2 (non-M's) before the TVR and I didnt really want to revisit old ground. I went to view the car the following day and drove it home that day.
I've had it for just over 2 months now and I can safely say I love it. Is it a TVR? No. Is it as fast as the TVR? No. Is it as much fun as the TVR? No. Am I 100% happy with it? 100% Yes. I ended up spending half my original budget and I have ended up with a really fantastic all-round car thats as happy round town (with TVR equivalent 15 mpg) as it is when driven in anger. Its also just sailed though MOT with no advisories at all.
Will I strive to get another TVR? Yes. But more importantly I am fairly sure I will still have the e46 M3 as it really is a great proposition. (Even in SMG which I thought I would just try and actually really like)
Hope that helps...
Edited by stub101 on Thursday 1st March 14:32
Edited by stub101 on Thursday 1st March 14:36
I am nearer making my mind up – and am thinking more of a Z4M, as I think this may be the closest to a Tamora (But I will look thoroughly at both M3’s and Z4M’s in a month or so, to see which pushed the right buttons).
For your (and other M-series owners) information, I have had my wife’s little MGF Trophy 160 fully restored and uprated (engine, exhausts, cams, cooling, suspension Quaife diff – everything, in fact – it is a new car, mechanically). I asked the guys who have just finished the work if they would be able to look after an M series when I buy one, as they really know their stuff and go the extra mile and then some when working on our cars, for a reasonable price – they are very passionate and race BMW’s, Lotus’s and MG’s at Silverstone. They said that they know the BMW M-series very well, and looking after my Z4m or M3 will not be a problem at all. I was so pleased to hear this, as they are the only people I trust to do a proper job. If you need a service, suspension changed etc., I would recommend them.
This is their website (I have no affiliation, just a very happy customer)
http://www.tech-speed.co.uk/tech-speed_home.html
It needs updating, but trust me, it is a gem of a place, and they really know their stuff.
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