55.8bhp from a Citroen 2.0HDI? Hmmmm......
Discussion
I have a 2004 Picasso 2.0HDI 90 which I've suspected for sometime is poorly. I confirmed this enough to satsify my suspicions over the weekend by strapping the beast onto a rolling road (the accuracy of which I'm happy with) and recording around 40bhp at the wheels - it gave a corrected est. of 55.8bhp at the fly, around 35bhp down on the 90 it left France with! Clearly something is not right, and I wondered if we had any common-rail diesel gurus on here?
The car runs quite happily with no real symptoms of a problem. It's just god-awful slow. At light throttle openings I would say it's performing as I would expect it to, but as soon as the revs climb past 2k rpm and the throttle opening gets near 50%, it just doesn't seem to give any more. There's no flat spot as such, nothing that seems wrong. It does accelerate, just very very slowly. It's getting to the point you would need to floor it to maintain 70mph up a hill on a motorway.
Steps I've taken so far include checking for fault codes. I do have a reoccuring code of P1352, which relates to the glow-plug circuit, either the plugs themselves or the relay unit. Generally the car starts fine in the morning, though recently it has started to not catch first time. Otherwise there are no other codes stored. I don't want to go clutching at straws and tackling these issues hoping it'll fix my snail of a car.
As suggested on other forums I've cleaned the MAF and disconnected the EGR (both via the vacuum control unit and the plug). I was advised the EGRs can play up and they're perfectly happy to run without. Being that the car isn't exactly my P&J I don't mind experimenting with it. I have been wondering if the EGR is jammed open - could this be the cause of my gutless diesel? Some people advise removing the EGR valve, making a plate to blank the EGR valve off and refitting it. I've also started to wonder if the cat is blocked, but I was under the understanding that diesel cats are metal, not ceramic. This may well be tosh.
To me, it feels like it's almost losing boost. The turbo is quite vocal, whistling away from very low revs and whooshing away as the revs climb. But I've had a loose boost pipe before on an old TD I had, and that sounded broken. This doesn't. I've checked every boost pipe I can see and have found nothing. It's not smoking excessively either, which I'd expect it to do (unless the ECU senses boost pressure aswell as engine speed and MAF etc to correct fuelling?). It has no intercooler either. I wonder is there a way to detect a boost leak, or highlight any weakspots?
Any advice appreciated, before I jack it in, part ex it and go back to petrols!
Cheers
The car runs quite happily with no real symptoms of a problem. It's just god-awful slow. At light throttle openings I would say it's performing as I would expect it to, but as soon as the revs climb past 2k rpm and the throttle opening gets near 50%, it just doesn't seem to give any more. There's no flat spot as such, nothing that seems wrong. It does accelerate, just very very slowly. It's getting to the point you would need to floor it to maintain 70mph up a hill on a motorway.
Steps I've taken so far include checking for fault codes. I do have a reoccuring code of P1352, which relates to the glow-plug circuit, either the plugs themselves or the relay unit. Generally the car starts fine in the morning, though recently it has started to not catch first time. Otherwise there are no other codes stored. I don't want to go clutching at straws and tackling these issues hoping it'll fix my snail of a car.
As suggested on other forums I've cleaned the MAF and disconnected the EGR (both via the vacuum control unit and the plug). I was advised the EGRs can play up and they're perfectly happy to run without. Being that the car isn't exactly my P&J I don't mind experimenting with it. I have been wondering if the EGR is jammed open - could this be the cause of my gutless diesel? Some people advise removing the EGR valve, making a plate to blank the EGR valve off and refitting it. I've also started to wonder if the cat is blocked, but I was under the understanding that diesel cats are metal, not ceramic. This may well be tosh.
To me, it feels like it's almost losing boost. The turbo is quite vocal, whistling away from very low revs and whooshing away as the revs climb. But I've had a loose boost pipe before on an old TD I had, and that sounded broken. This doesn't. I've checked every boost pipe I can see and have found nothing. It's not smoking excessively either, which I'd expect it to do (unless the ECU senses boost pressure aswell as engine speed and MAF etc to correct fuelling?). It has no intercooler either. I wonder is there a way to detect a boost leak, or highlight any weakspots?
Any advice appreciated, before I jack it in, part ex it and go back to petrols!
Cheers
Kitchski said:
I did wonder about a blocked cat. Don't know much about diesels and didn't know if a diesel engine can eat a cat like a petrol can. Like I said in the OP, I'd been informed diesels use metal-cats anyway due to higher temps.
EGT on a diesel is lower than petrol is it not?Have you checked the air cleaner, it may be clogged with dirt, leaves, pieces of plastic and all other possible stuff.
sometimes the dpf clogs up with particles (soot) and blocks off nearly all exhaust flow.
and the maf sensor can be defective, this sometimes does NOT show up as a trouble code.
Never was or will be a fan of HDi's......... the old XUD (turbo or non-turbo's) are much better engines and a great deal less complicated.
sometimes the dpf clogs up with particles (soot) and blocks off nearly all exhaust flow.
and the maf sensor can be defective, this sometimes does NOT show up as a trouble code.
Never was or will be a fan of HDi's......... the old XUD (turbo or non-turbo's) are much better engines and a great deal less complicated.
It doesn't have a DPF, and the air filter is new. There is word on the Picasso owners club (yes, really!) that the car has a secondary moment on the brake pedal switch which instructs the ECU to restrict fuel flow, so when you're braking on the overrun it leans right out to reduce fuel consumption.
On earlier cars this is easily identified as the brake lights are on all the time. My car's brake lights are fine, but as it turns out, later cars have two switches, one for lights and one for ECU. So this is my next port of call, because I still haven't been able to get underneath it to inspect the turbo and associated trickery with it.
On earlier cars this is easily identified as the brake lights are on all the time. My car's brake lights are fine, but as it turns out, later cars have two switches, one for lights and one for ECU. So this is my next port of call, because I still haven't been able to get underneath it to inspect the turbo and associated trickery with it.
I'm actually keen to remove it and blank it off TBH. Many others in HDI circles have done this complete success, but the problem is on a Pica
hole it's a bh to get at! If a stud sheers I'll be in for a world of hurt.
I might just burn it, explain to the O/H it got torched and buy the Saab 9-5 Aero I wanted in the first place
hole it's a bh to get at! If a stud sheers I'll be in for a world of hurt.I might just burn it, explain to the O/H it got torched and buy the Saab 9-5 Aero I wanted in the first place
Kitchski said:
I'm actually keen to remove it and blank it off TBH. Many others in HDI circles have done this complete success, but the problem is on a Picahole it's a bh to get at! If a stud sheers I'll be in for a world of hurt.
I might just burn it, explain to the O/H it got torched and buy the Saab 9-5 Aero I wanted in the first place
I won't tell her if you don't hole it's a bh to get at! If a stud sheers I'll be in for a world of hurt.I might just burn it, explain to the O/H it got torched and buy the Saab 9-5 Aero I wanted in the first place
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff