Weightlifting For The Overweight
Discussion
Afternoon,
I'm currently trying to gather information on weightlifting, whilst trying to lose fat. I've come across the strong lifts website, and have read the book I'm also half way through Never Let Go by Dan John and am about to start reading Starting Strength & Strong Enough? by Mark Rippetoe. I've also browsed through countless forums but a large proportion of the members seem to be on substances, not something I am remotely interested in. The majority of information I have read so far has been about skinny guys wanting to 'bulk' or big guys like me wanting to lose weight & shrink. What I want to do is neither of these and information has been difficult to find.
A little about me, I'm 6ft 2 and approx 140kgs, a while ago I had a body fat test done which indicated that my lean muscle mass was 90kgs with a body fat of 34%. I have been trying to lose weight/get smaller for as long as I can remember, and in recent years have joined gyms and undertaken their 'plans' which mainly involved cardio and machines. As I am writing this post its safe to say that none of these plans have worked, whilst I can't say I stuck to them religiously, I tried them for long enough where I should have seen some results. The only time I did have moderate success was when I started getting out on my bike, but whilst I got marginally smaller, I more or less looked the same. I'm a joiner by trade and regularly handle large boards of timber weighing 60+kgs (last week I had 2 which were 90) so I have always been strong relative to my job. What I would like to try this time is to lose fat but get seriously strong, without really worrying about my overall weight or size, but trying to change my physique.
Instead of joining another gym I've decided to start the Strong Lifts 5x5 workout with a couple of bike rides a week(mainly for pleasure). I have a small set of weights & bench from a few years ago that I have started to use, but I am planning on picking up an olympic bar & weights shortly. By my calculations I will run out of weights by April. I'm on my second week of the 5x5 now and have started from the very beginning using the olympic bar weight(as my bar only weighs a couple of kg I started with 2x 10kg plates) I felt that although I probably could lift more to start, it would be best to start from the very beginning and learn the correct form for each lift and by the time I am upto decent weights I would be in good stead.
My main area of confusion is the diet side of things. Since moving in with my girlfriend my diet has certainly gotten healthier, but I'm unsure of quantities. What I have learnt so far is that I should be aiming to eat 1g or protein per lb of lean mass. My main 3 meals should contain both protein and fiber, and that water should be my main fluid. Luckily I've always drunk a lot of water, sometimes upto 4 litres a day. It seems that if you are a slim guy wanting to bulk up you would need to eat & eat & eat. or if you are trying to lose weight then a calorific deficit is needed. As I am trying to do neither I am a bit stuck, obviously I need to eat enough to allow the muscle to grow & as they grow more energy is needed to sustain them, but at the same time I don't want to eat too much to end up getting even bigger but stronger. I don't want to get into a situation with different bulking and cutting phases as I want something simple but effective, I also don't want to start with supplements protein shakes etc.
I'm sure what I am looking to do isn't impossible, but just not very well publicized. If anyone has any information, tips, or books that would be worth reading then I would really appreciate it.
Also if there is any other forums worth joining please let me know.
thanks for your time
Matt
I'm currently trying to gather information on weightlifting, whilst trying to lose fat. I've come across the strong lifts website, and have read the book I'm also half way through Never Let Go by Dan John and am about to start reading Starting Strength & Strong Enough? by Mark Rippetoe. I've also browsed through countless forums but a large proportion of the members seem to be on substances, not something I am remotely interested in. The majority of information I have read so far has been about skinny guys wanting to 'bulk' or big guys like me wanting to lose weight & shrink. What I want to do is neither of these and information has been difficult to find.
A little about me, I'm 6ft 2 and approx 140kgs, a while ago I had a body fat test done which indicated that my lean muscle mass was 90kgs with a body fat of 34%. I have been trying to lose weight/get smaller for as long as I can remember, and in recent years have joined gyms and undertaken their 'plans' which mainly involved cardio and machines. As I am writing this post its safe to say that none of these plans have worked, whilst I can't say I stuck to them religiously, I tried them for long enough where I should have seen some results. The only time I did have moderate success was when I started getting out on my bike, but whilst I got marginally smaller, I more or less looked the same. I'm a joiner by trade and regularly handle large boards of timber weighing 60+kgs (last week I had 2 which were 90) so I have always been strong relative to my job. What I would like to try this time is to lose fat but get seriously strong, without really worrying about my overall weight or size, but trying to change my physique.
Instead of joining another gym I've decided to start the Strong Lifts 5x5 workout with a couple of bike rides a week(mainly for pleasure). I have a small set of weights & bench from a few years ago that I have started to use, but I am planning on picking up an olympic bar & weights shortly. By my calculations I will run out of weights by April. I'm on my second week of the 5x5 now and have started from the very beginning using the olympic bar weight(as my bar only weighs a couple of kg I started with 2x 10kg plates) I felt that although I probably could lift more to start, it would be best to start from the very beginning and learn the correct form for each lift and by the time I am upto decent weights I would be in good stead.
My main area of confusion is the diet side of things. Since moving in with my girlfriend my diet has certainly gotten healthier, but I'm unsure of quantities. What I have learnt so far is that I should be aiming to eat 1g or protein per lb of lean mass. My main 3 meals should contain both protein and fiber, and that water should be my main fluid. Luckily I've always drunk a lot of water, sometimes upto 4 litres a day. It seems that if you are a slim guy wanting to bulk up you would need to eat & eat & eat. or if you are trying to lose weight then a calorific deficit is needed. As I am trying to do neither I am a bit stuck, obviously I need to eat enough to allow the muscle to grow & as they grow more energy is needed to sustain them, but at the same time I don't want to eat too much to end up getting even bigger but stronger. I don't want to get into a situation with different bulking and cutting phases as I want something simple but effective, I also don't want to start with supplements protein shakes etc.
I'm sure what I am looking to do isn't impossible, but just not very well publicized. If anyone has any information, tips, or books that would be worth reading then I would really appreciate it.
Also if there is any other forums worth joining please let me know.
thanks for your time
Matt
Edited by MattMoore on Tuesday 28th February 15:15
MattMoore said:
Afternoon,
I'm currently trying to gather information on weightlifting, whilst trying to lose fat.
It seems that if you are a slim guy wanting to bulk up you would need to eat & eat & eat. or if you are trying to lose weight then a calorific deficit is needed. As I am trying to do neither I am a bit stuck, Matt
If your trying to loose fat, but you dont want to bulk up of loose weight what is it your trying to do ? I'm currently trying to gather information on weightlifting, whilst trying to lose fat.
It seems that if you are a slim guy wanting to bulk up you would need to eat & eat & eat. or if you are trying to lose weight then a calorific deficit is needed. As I am trying to do neither I am a bit stuck, Matt
Sounds to me like you want to loose a bit of weight. If so its mainly down to your diet mate as i found out. You can train all you like but if you dont eat the correct stuff you wont see any change or very little.
If you start the 5x5 you will struggle to do it at home as i found out a few weeks ago. I couldnt get enough weight on the bar for deadlifts and ive not got a squat rack. What im doing now is going the gym and hopefully will get some pointers on form to from people who know what there doing.
Lots of good advice on here mate.
Might be worth having a little look at this? http://youtu.be/H7OPtub4dG8
OP, if I understand your original comment. You want to get stronger and lose some fat (Body %).
What you're asking your body to do is very difficult. I've tried to do the same in the past and whilst it's possible, it's a very hard and long road ahead. You're essentially asking your body to gain weight and lose weight at the same time. There's a reason why bodybuilders and strength athletes go through seperate bulking and cutting phases during the year.
If you're taking in a large number of calories to bulk up (i.e. get stronger) you're body won't be burning fat per se because it doesn't need to use the stored fat as energy because you're putting plenty in yourself.
I would suggest trying one thing at a time and don't change too many variables, that way you can monitor what has an effect and by what margin. Personally, if you're not too fussed about losing fat at this point in time, I would just start lifting heavy and stressing the body (picking up 60kg and 90kg planks of wood is good, but if you're conditioned to it, your body won't be stressed or "shocked" into changing). You need to really lift heavy to start tearing the muscle fibres.
What you're asking your body to do is very difficult. I've tried to do the same in the past and whilst it's possible, it's a very hard and long road ahead. You're essentially asking your body to gain weight and lose weight at the same time. There's a reason why bodybuilders and strength athletes go through seperate bulking and cutting phases during the year.
If you're taking in a large number of calories to bulk up (i.e. get stronger) you're body won't be burning fat per se because it doesn't need to use the stored fat as energy because you're putting plenty in yourself.
I would suggest trying one thing at a time and don't change too many variables, that way you can monitor what has an effect and by what margin. Personally, if you're not too fussed about losing fat at this point in time, I would just start lifting heavy and stressing the body (picking up 60kg and 90kg planks of wood is good, but if you're conditioned to it, your body won't be stressed or "shocked" into changing). You need to really lift heavy to start tearing the muscle fibres.
You don't need to over-complicate things and there are multiple answers to your question, I will give you my preference but I'm not going to suggest its the only way or the best way, just what I believe to be the best way and I've had a lot of success with both myself and other people doing this. It's also very old fashioned and simple.
The truth about protein is, if you can get enough from your diet you don't need to take protein supplements or any other. I use protein powder as I aim for about 2g per 1lb of bodyweight and its convenient for me.
My preference would be this;
Diet
- Low carb, no sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol or heavily processed foods.
Training
- Weight training 4 times a week with HIIT (High intensity interval training *also called other names*) training for 20 minutes afterwards and any other additional cardio you can fit in the week from walking to outdoor sports, swimming etc
And shamelessly copied from my own thread!
The truth about protein is, if you can get enough from your diet you don't need to take protein supplements or any other. I use protein powder as I aim for about 2g per 1lb of bodyweight and its convenient for me.
My preference would be this;
Diet
- Low carb, no sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol or heavily processed foods.
Training
- Weight training 4 times a week with HIIT (High intensity interval training *also called other names*) training for 20 minutes afterwards and any other additional cardio you can fit in the week from walking to outdoor sports, swimming etc
And shamelessly copied from my own thread!
lee said:
Top tips.
- Weight doesn't matter, its all about form and carrying out the exercise properly. You'll grow far more by doing it properly as opposed to the crazy swinging you often see people doing in the gym. 3 months ago most exercises were less than half that weight I lift today. Also you'll injure yourself and get laughed at if you swing weights like a maniac.
- Diet equals about 80% of your body. It's also vital too for growth and recovery.
- I'd suggest counting calories (including drinks that can be packed with them!) in the early days and also figuring out what your BMR should be with exercise then reducing calories if you're looking
- Look here to figure out what your BMR is; http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/
- Now figure out how many calories you're consuming, if you're consuming more you'll not lose weight.
- Have a cheat day, eat well 6 days a week then give yourself a day off. I used to allow myself two bad meals a week now I use a cheat day. Just don't go crazy otherwise you'll wreck your progress.
- Avoid processed foods and drinks. Any packaged food that is claiming to be low fat is usually full of terrible chemicals like sodium. My general rule is, the fresher and the less processed, the better.
- If you're doing weights, if you're protein levels are not high enough you'll not give your muscles a chance to grow. Protein is essential for recovery.
- I covered some stuff on diets and outlined my diets in an earlier post but I'd suggest looking here;
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbmainnut.htm at some diets and figuring out what works for you, just remember to count the calories!
- Weight doesn't matter, its all about form and carrying out the exercise properly. You'll grow far more by doing it properly as opposed to the crazy swinging you often see people doing in the gym. 3 months ago most exercises were less than half that weight I lift today. Also you'll injure yourself and get laughed at if you swing weights like a maniac.
- Diet equals about 80% of your body. It's also vital too for growth and recovery.
- I'd suggest counting calories (including drinks that can be packed with them!) in the early days and also figuring out what your BMR should be with exercise then reducing calories if you're looking
- Look here to figure out what your BMR is; http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/
- Now figure out how many calories you're consuming, if you're consuming more you'll not lose weight.
- Have a cheat day, eat well 6 days a week then give yourself a day off. I used to allow myself two bad meals a week now I use a cheat day. Just don't go crazy otherwise you'll wreck your progress.
- Avoid processed foods and drinks. Any packaged food that is claiming to be low fat is usually full of terrible chemicals like sodium. My general rule is, the fresher and the less processed, the better.
- If you're doing weights, if you're protein levels are not high enough you'll not give your muscles a chance to grow. Protein is essential for recovery.
- I covered some stuff on diets and outlined my diets in an earlier post but I'd suggest looking here;
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbmainnut.htm at some diets and figuring out what works for you, just remember to count the calories!
Ordinary_Chap said:
stuff
+1good advice here.
Get on with the big lifts, Squats, Deads, Chest etc, and eat very healthily.
Then do as much cardio as possible. Set yourself targets for the cardio or you will never motivate yourself to do it.
It you're doing it outside, then set distance goals, if in the gym, set calories burnt goals.
Good choice with the Mark Rippetoe book. Solid, perfect technique is paramount - his videos are very good too.
As you've discovered, most PTs and gyms 'teach' the same old guff. If you follow their plans you'll get the same results as the other no-hopers plodding away at your typical lifestyle gym. Doing the same thing yet expecting different results is silly, wishful thinking.
Losing fat is in the kitchen, getting stronger is in bed. And the gym.
Ordinary_Chap has had extraordinary success with his chosen weapons, but he appears to be very committed, disciplined and single minded. This is a compliment OC, not a criticism. If you can make the same or similar commitment just do as he does - you'll be impressed with how much you can achieve in short time.
I'm rather older and happy to take my time, working at my own pace and am pretty happy with my body these days. I've been a porker back in my early thirties though not grossly overweight/obese. Way back when, I lost a few stones on the Atkins diet but ended up scrawny and unfit. That was when I started weight training. It's taken me nearly ten years to find a diet/lifestyle and exercise regimen with which I'm happy, but I'm pretty happy just now.
As you've discovered, most PTs and gyms 'teach' the same old guff. If you follow their plans you'll get the same results as the other no-hopers plodding away at your typical lifestyle gym. Doing the same thing yet expecting different results is silly, wishful thinking.
Losing fat is in the kitchen, getting stronger is in bed. And the gym.
Ordinary_Chap has had extraordinary success with his chosen weapons, but he appears to be very committed, disciplined and single minded. This is a compliment OC, not a criticism. If you can make the same or similar commitment just do as he does - you'll be impressed with how much you can achieve in short time.
I'm rather older and happy to take my time, working at my own pace and am pretty happy with my body these days. I've been a porker back in my early thirties though not grossly overweight/obese. Way back when, I lost a few stones on the Atkins diet but ended up scrawny and unfit. That was when I started weight training. It's taken me nearly ten years to find a diet/lifestyle and exercise regimen with which I'm happy, but I'm pretty happy just now.
I'm no expert and so always wary of commenting on this kind of thing but I have recently been through a period of change losing a lot of weight and gaining muscle, mostly prompted by being type 2 diabetic and finally pulling my head out of my backside and realising I had to do something to get things under control.
May I suggest a couple of books:-
The New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler and Alwyn Cosgrove - This has nothing to do with body building and lots to do with health and fitnes, it also has the most common sense and easiest to understand workout plans I have yet to find.
Power Training by Robert dos Remedios - Along the same lines as above, has more exercises and teaches you how to build your own programmes, a good source to use after the workouts in the book above.
Why We Get Fat And What To Do About It, and/ or Good Calories, Bad Calories. Both are by Gary Taubes
I have lost a lot of weight with the help of the information in these books and feel more energetic than I have done since being a very fit teenager.
Remember that what ever you choose has to be a for life decision and not just something to do for 6 months or a year and then returning to normal.
Good Luck
Ian
May I suggest a couple of books:-
The New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler and Alwyn Cosgrove - This has nothing to do with body building and lots to do with health and fitnes, it also has the most common sense and easiest to understand workout plans I have yet to find.
Power Training by Robert dos Remedios - Along the same lines as above, has more exercises and teaches you how to build your own programmes, a good source to use after the workouts in the book above.
Why We Get Fat And What To Do About It, and/ or Good Calories, Bad Calories. Both are by Gary Taubes
I have lost a lot of weight with the help of the information in these books and feel more energetic than I have done since being a very fit teenager.
Remember that what ever you choose has to be a for life decision and not just something to do for 6 months or a year and then returning to normal.
Good Luck
Ian
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