Ex demo M cars

[Boogsie]

Just thinking that if I was looking at buying a nearly new car I'd avoid a demo. The break in procedure doesn't really sit well with how I drove the M3 on my test drive. And I'm sure I'm not alone in this

[hesnotthemessiah]

I have had three ex demo cars in the past (not 'M's I should add). In my experience, they tend to be very low mileage and have lots of options and much cheaper than one fresh out of the wrapper.

[Blowfish]

They get thrashed straight out the box!

hesnotthemessiah said:

I have had three ex demo cars in the past (not 'M's I should add). In my experience, they tend to be very low mileage and have lots of options and much cheaper than one fresh out of the wrapper.

[Dracoro]

So do fresh out the box ones........

[andygtt]

I beleive usually engines are already run in prior to going in car as its the only way to avoid warranty issues.

[hesnotthemessiah]

Blowfish said:

They get thrashed straight out the box!

hesnotthemessiah said:

I have had three ex demo cars in the past (not 'M's I should add). In my experience, they tend to be very low mileage and have lots of options and much cheaper than one fresh out of the wrapper.

By whom?

[taffyracer]

I always buy demos, had 5 M cars, because I do a fair few miles, the odd thousand here and there means nothing to me over 2 years and I prefer to take the saving and have more to spend on life, i've never had an issue with any of the cars

[Jarrod]

When i was looking the deals on new cars were better than buying a nearly new. Depends if you are thinking about finance options as well.

[Crackie]

I work close to my local dealer and have often seen the brutal abuse the demo (and customer) E46s, E6*s and E9*s receive(d) when leaving the forecourt; they get a right old pasting.
By definition a demo car"s engine, drivetrain & suspension i.e clutch, gearbox, rear sub frame, bearing shells, springs and shocks will all have had a difficult start in life, busy demonsrating their talents to prospective buyers.
I appreciate "it's got these special lights in the rev counter to limit the revs when its cold" and that M's are designed to be driven hard but I don't fancy the risky long term reliability of a car that's spent much of its early life showing off that facility.

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 1st March 08:36

[mrmr96]

Boogsie said:

Just thinking that if I was looking at buying a nearly new car I'd avoid a demo. The break in procedure doesn't really sit well with how I drove the M3 on my test drive. And I'm sure I'm not alone in this

Surely an ex-demo will still be under warranty though, so if any issues did arise which were symptomatic of being caned from cold you'd be covered?

[Cheburator mk2]

Crackie said:

I work close to my local dealer and have often seen the brutal abuse the demo (and customer) E46s, E6*s and E9*s receive(d) when leaving the forecourt; they get a right old pasting.
By definition a demo car"s engine, drivetrain & suspension i.e clutch, gearbox, rear sub frame, bearing shells, springs and shocks will all have had a difficult start in life, busy demonsrating their talents to prospective buyers.
I appreciate "it's got these special lights in the rev counter to limit the revs when its cold" and that M's are designed to be driven hard but I don't fancy the risky long term reliability of a car that's spent much of its early life showing off that facility.

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 1st March 08:36

Damn, someone should have told me this before I bought my Z4MC press car and the 50,000 miles it covered afterwards. I was clearly in danger most of the time I was in the car - after all, by the sounds of it, spontaneous combustion was imminent while on the public road, let alone the 400+ laps of the Ring I did in it...

[daz4m]

Lol @ Che, I've actually heard some argue that the car will produce healthier figures as a result of being pushed in the early stages.

It's all luck of the draw anyway the first owner of any car could have thrashed it. At least with demos there is probably a better chance that have been warmed up first at least.

[Crackie]

Cheburator mk2 said:

Crackie said:

I work close to my local dealer and have often seen the brutal abuse the demo (and customer) E46s, E6*s and E9*s receive(d) when leaving the forecourt; they get a right old pasting.
By definition a demo car"s engine, drivetrain & suspension i.e clutch, gearbox, rear sub frame, bearing shells, springs and shocks will all have had a difficult start in life, busy demonsrating their talents to prospective buyers.
I appreciate "it's got these special lights in the rev counter to limit the revs when its cold" and that M's are designed to be driven hard but I don't fancy the risky long term reliability of a car that's spent much of its early life showing off that facility.

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 1st March 08:36

Damn, someone should have told me this before I bought my Z4MC press car and the 50,000 miles it covered afterwards. I was clearly in danger most of the time I was in the car - after all, by the sounds of it, spontaneous combustion was imminent while on the public road, let alone the 400+ laps of the Ring I did in it...

Fair enough.........didn't think my post was that patronising. Not all ex dems are explosions waiting to happen and your experience has been good; however there are cases that don't turn out quite as well as yours. I know of an ex-demo E46M3CS, which belonged to a freind on PH, whose VANOS needed replacing at extremely low miles ~ so much so that iirc BMW factory engineers were dispatched to investigate and determine the cause. What do you think their conclusion was ?

Out of interest, was the original clutch in your Z4MC when you bought it ?

Edited by Crackie on Friday 2nd March 07:28

[jaedba2604]

Crackie said:

I appreciate "it's got these special lights in the rev counter to limit the revs when its cold"

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 1st March 08:36

never understood the point of these; don't they show the water temp, not the oil temp? i always go off the oil temp gauge and ignore the lights.

[daz4m]

jaedba2604 said:

never understood the point of these; don't they show the water temp, not the oil temp? i always go off the oil temp gauge and ignore the lights.

They were never for people like you, they were brought in for non car people who thought it was ok to rev them nice and high from cold because the car allowed them to. I think BMW realised this had caused lot of problems on the E36 M3 and this was seen as a prevention measure for the next model.

Mind you, they still go out too fast for my liking.

[jaedba2604]

daz4m said:

jaedba2604 said:

never understood the point of these; don't they show the water temp, not the oil temp? i always go off the oil temp gauge and ignore the lights.

They were never for people like you, they were brought in for non car people who thought it was ok to rev them nice and high from cold because the car allowed them to. I think BMW realised this had caused lot of problems on the E36 M3 and this was seen as a prevention measure for the next model.

Mind you, they still go out too fast for my liking.

theoretically, the harder you drive it from cold, the quicker they'll go out... i know that sounds obvious, but the engine would heat up at an accelerated rate if warm oil is not given chance to circulate.

[daz4m]

and your point caller?

[jaedba2604]

that if you do what they're trying to stop you from doing they'll indicate that you can do what you shouldn't be doing more quickly.

so they are, in a way, self defeating...it is very theoretical, but true nevertheless.

[waremark]

daz4m said:

jaedba2604 said:

never understood the point of these; don't they show the water temp, not the oil temp? i always go off the oil temp gauge and ignore the lights.

They were never for people like you, they were brought in for non car people who thought it was ok to rev them nice and high from cold because the car allowed them to. I think BMW realised this had caused lot of problems on the E36 M3 and this was seen as a prevention measure for the next model.

Mind you, they still go out too fast for my liking.

I am surprised by how high the orange sector starts with completely cold oil - generally over 6,000; it then moves up very rapidly. I expect not to use more than half the rev range (say therefore 4k) until the oil is up to temperature, which takes more than 10 minutes. However, I assume that if BMW M engineers have gone to the trouble to create and calibrate this system, they must think that it is ok to go with the indications on the rev counter.

Actually, treating a car sympathetically while the oil is cold is much more difficult in a low performance car than in an M3; pulling out onto a busy road near to home in the morning in a 1.2 Fiesta has me worrying about how many revs to use.

[undertow]

jaedba2604 said:

never understood the point of these; don't they show the water temp, not the oil temp? i always go off the oil temp gauge and ignore the lights.

My oil temp sensor was recently faulty, going to 100% hot within 30 seconds of starting a cold car, but as a result I can confirm the rev counter lights must use both temp values as the lights went off almost immediately after the 100% oil temp reading.

What that also tells me is whatever algorithm it uses is flawed. Oil temp of 150C and water temp of 27C does not equal safe use at 6500 RPM

When both sensors are working correctly, the lights definitely turn off too quickly for anyone who cares about their engine