North Korea to suspend nuclear activites

[Oakey]

No thread on this? PH slow on the news lately.

Guardian said:

The US said on Wednesday North Korea had agreed to suspend nuclear activities and a moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests in a breakthrough in negotiations with the secretive communist nation.

The announcement comes little more than two months after the death of Kim Jong-il, and suggests North Korea has met the key US preconditions for restarting multi-nation disarmament-for-aid talks that North Korea withdrew from in 2009.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/29/north-korea-suspend-nuclear-tests-us

Are they genuine or is it just another grab at aid?

[dmulally]

Oakey said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/29/north-...

Are they genuine or is it just another grab at aid?

Sweet jebus, they get aid?

[Frankeh]

dmulally said:

Oakey said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/29/north-...

Are they genuine or is it just another grab at aid?

Sweet jebus, they get aid?

Of course they do, their people have no chance of eating without it.

[DamienB]

So they've finished their bomb then, yeah?

[Frankeh]

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

[Streps]

No use being the supreme leader of a country when it's people are starving to death.
Time for Kim Jong-un to sort his people out.

[MX7]

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

Yeah, no one cared at all about NK going nuclear.

[andymadmak]

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

It doesn't amaze me at all. China now sits on NK so hard that I doubt they can even fart in anyones general direction without permission from Beijing these days. The incident with the SK warship being sunk was taken VERY badly in Beijing......
The Chinese have no desire to do anything other than become an economic powerhouse. WW3 and the destruction of the West (or it's allies) might get in the way of those plans..

Now, Iran, as far as I can see is unconstrained by any superpower, has expressed agressive and hostile threats to its neighbors and the West... Plus the ruling theocracy does tend to teach it's followers of the rewards available for martyrdom, thereby making Iran rather more dangerous for it's ability to start trouble by proxy (they don't have to launch a bomb, they just have to give it to someone who will deliver it in person)

So to summarise: Starving deluded people controlled by superpower (which will do all it can to stop trouble) Vs Agressive, threatening, theocracy stocked with a fair few wannabee martyrs and constrained by no one in particular.. and you can't decide what the difference is?

[Frankeh]

MX7 said:

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

Yeah, no one cared at all about NK going nuclear.

In comparison, no they didn't. Where were the air strikes on facilities inside NK? Where was the killing of scientists? Where was the cyber terrorism?

[Jimbeaux]

This is old hat. Twice Bill Clinton gave them food and fuel aid in return for halting nuke activity. Each time, they broke the agreement; let's see how the Dear Leader, Jr. works it. I remember an M.D. who escaped NK coming to the West and telling the story of loads of grain from the U.S. arriving in port; the people were told that that was tribute to the Dear Leader and not aid for the poor.

[anonymous-user]

Frankeh said:

In comparison, no they didn't. Where were the air strikes on facilities inside NK? Where was the killing of scientists? Where was the cyber terrorism?

Politically, two very different kettles of fish, that's why.

[Jimbeaux]

DamienB said:

So they've finished their bomb then, yeah?

Inaccurate assunption, we have been giving them aid for decades.

[Jimbeaux]

andymadmak said:

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

It doesn't amaze me at all. China now sits on NK so hard that I doubt they can even fart in anyones general direction without permission from Beijing these days. The incident with the SK warship being sunk was taken VERY badly in Beijing......
The Chinese have no desire to do anything other than become an economic powerhouse. WW3 and the destruction of the West (or it's allies) might get in the way of those plans..

Now, Iran, as far as I can see is unconstrained by any superpower, has expressed agressive and hostile threats to its neighbors and the West... Plus the ruling theocracy does tend to teach it's followers of the rewards available for martyrdom, thereby making Iran rather more dangerous for it's ability to start trouble by proxy (they don't have to launch a bomb, they just have to give it to someone who will deliver it in person)

So to summarise: Starving deluded people controlled by superpower (which will do all it can to stop trouble) Vs Agressive, threatening, theocracy stocked with a fair few wannabee martyrs and constrained by no one in particular.. and you can't decide what the difference is?

Excellent articulation.

[Frankeh]

andymadmak said:

Aggressive, threatening, theocracy.

That is a better description of NK than it is of Iran, imo. I mean they genuinely believe that their leader is a god who has super powers.
Doesn't get much more theocratic than that! And as for threatening and aggressive? Well just 2 years ago they torpedoed a SK ship.. Pretty sure that that's extremely more aggressive than Iran have been in the past two years.

You have a point about China being their puppet master, but they also have to keep NK happy as the alternative is millions upon millions of NK refugees flooding china and probably a US military base where old Supreme leaders palace used to be!

Basically, I don't buy that Iran is anywhere near as scary as NK is.

[Jimbeaux]

Frankeh said:

andymadmak said:

Aggressive, threatening, theocracy.

That is a better description of NK than it is of Iran, imo. I mean they genuinely believe that their leader is a god who has super powers.
Doesn't get much more theocratic than that! And as for threatening and aggressive? Well just 2 years ago they torpedoed a SK ship.. Pretty sure that that's extremely more aggressive than Iran have been in the past two years.

You have a point about China being their puppet master, but they also have to keep NK happy as the alternative is millions upon millions of NK refugees flooding china and probably a US military base where old Supreme leaders palace used to be!

Basically, I don't buy that Iran is anywhere near as scary as NK is.

I think the reason is as was articulated in an above post, they are more likely to give a nuke over to a fundi-proxy than NK.

[MX7]

Frankeh said:

MX7 said:

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

Yeah, no one cared at all about NK going nuclear.

In comparison, no they didn't. Where were the air strikes on facilities inside NK? Where was the killing of scientists? Where was the cyber terrorism?

They are very different situations. Do you expect it to be identical every time?

[Jimbeaux]

MX7 said:

Frankeh said:

MX7 said:

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

Yeah, no one cared at all about NK going nuclear.

In comparison, no they didn't. Where were the air strikes on facilities inside NK? Where was the killing of scientists? Where was the cyber terrorism?

They are very different situations. Do you expect it to be identical every time?

Frankeh, that likely went on, minus the airstrikes, but no one would have known as information is airtight in NK.

[glazbagun]

MX7 said:

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

Yeah, no one cared at all about NK going nuclear.

We invaded Iraq on trumped up WMD charges whilst NK was actively pursuing their nuke program. We obviously didn't care that much.

[Frankeh]

glazbagun said:

MX7 said:

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

Yeah, no one cared at all about NK going nuclear.

We invaded Iraq on trumped up WMD charges whilst NK was actively pursuing their nuke program. We obviously didn't care that much.

Yeah but Iraq is kinda near Afghanistan and Afghanistan was home to Bin Laden who orchestrated 9/11 so therefore iraq something something or something.

I think I got that right.

[Mermaid]

glazbagun said:

MX7 said:

Frankeh said:

It does amaze me how little fu*ks were given when NK managed to develop the bomb, yet Irans getting hung out to dry.

Yeah, no one cared at all about NK going nuclear.

We invaded Iraq on trumped up WMD charges whilst NK was actively pursuing their nuke program. We obviously didn't care that much.

You do know what we care about