Whats the deal w EVO's sea change- the "911 Beaten" ?
Discussion
I notice that evo have rather changed their overall editorial view on the new 911- especially since Harris is gone.
What I found especially interesting was Henry Catchpole's experiences with completely losing touch (with the car)- heart in mouth or out of his rib-cage to paraphrase it, with the 911 on some testing roads twice, having no idea what the car would do.
In certain conditions and at certain speeds, have evo indeed found a flaw in the new 911's handling? Is evo actually doing a better job reporting on the 911 than most others- Harris et al. j
What I found especially interesting was Henry Catchpole's experiences with completely losing touch (with the car)- heart in mouth or out of his rib-cage to paraphrase it, with the 911 on some testing roads twice, having no idea what the car would do.
In certain conditions and at certain speeds, have evo indeed found a flaw in the new 911's handling? Is evo actually doing a better job reporting on the 911 than most others- Harris et al. j
Edited by j123 on Sunday 4th March 19:56
R1gtr said:
Im guessing it was beaten because it came up against a GTR which is superb in all departments, looking forward to the new Porsche Turbo against the GTR, that will be a battle 
R1gtr,Strangely the once evo and now current evo journalist Bovington took the 911 on an epic multi thousand mile journey as his last story for CAR and found the 911 to have no handling flaws what-so-ever, and proceeded to say it was a rather more enjoyable and exploitable car than the GTR.
Honestly the new wrinkle on the 911 story from evo I think while honest, needs a good bit more follow up. What does Bovington have to say to Catchpole? Might have Catchpole said to Bovington here have a go on this road and tell me what you think of the new 911 now? That would be more through journalism.
Is there something wrong with the systems on the new 911; steering, and adjustable damping as evo say?
Edited by j123 on Sunday 4th March 21:20
I don't think most of you have read the article. In many ways I can't say I blame some of you, in that the editorial quality has- as many threads have attested to, gone down over the years. But alas this issue is a good one from- pulling pages (metaphorically at least) from the OLD evo, getting into
the details of how a car drives and why.
For those not up to speed on the main message of the "911 Beaten" article here it is:
"TO the majority of 911 buyers this probably won't matter- if anything it will give them more confidence. But to us it does...Some of this coldness is undoubtly down to the electric steering, but there's an inconsistency of connection with what's happening at the wheels too that saps confidence, and for that blame has to lie with the optional Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control active roll system. PDCC employs a set of hydraulic cylinders to counteract roll at the individual wheels. In a straight line the system relaxes to optimize ride comfort, while in the corners it acts to negate roll almost entirely...but the trade off is an unnerving moment of deadness in some corners." j
the details of how a car drives and why.
For those not up to speed on the main message of the "911 Beaten" article here it is:
"TO the majority of 911 buyers this probably won't matter- if anything it will give them more confidence. But to us it does...Some of this coldness is undoubtly down to the electric steering, but there's an inconsistency of connection with what's happening at the wheels too that saps confidence, and for that blame has to lie with the optional Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control active roll system. PDCC employs a set of hydraulic cylinders to counteract roll at the individual wheels. In a straight line the system relaxes to optimize ride comfort, while in the corners it acts to negate roll almost entirely...but the trade off is an unnerving moment of deadness in some corners." j
I think they may be explaining that they are not 100 pro Porsche. TBH have you ever been put off a car because a magazine says its crap, or been warmed to a car because a magazine says its good?
At the end of day its a bunch of blokes who write for a car magazine, yes its a good source to get an idea of a car but really, its all down to everyones personal preference.
At the end of day its a bunch of blokes who write for a car magazine, yes its a good source to get an idea of a car but really, its all down to everyones personal preference.
Don1 said:
So a ex sub-editor controlled the content of EVO? Please....
Every magazine and car show I have seen has criticised the same issue - steering feel. I'm not sure all can be incorrect, unless we need to start putting the tin foil hats on.
Steve Sutcliffe didn't on his Autocar 991 video...Every magazine and car show I have seen has criticised the same issue - steering feel. I'm not sure all can be incorrect, unless we need to start putting the tin foil hats on.
Translation: They have finally twigged what those of us who have been labelled "luddites" have been saying for years...too much f
king around with the steering robs feel.
There is nothing shocking or revealing there. The more "assistance" goes on up front, the less anyone has a bloody clue what the car is actually doing.
king around with the steering robs feel.There is nothing shocking or revealing there. The more "assistance" goes on up front, the less anyone has a bloody clue what the car is actually doing.
KennyGT said:
I think they may be explaining that they are not 100 pro Porsche. TBH have you ever been put off a car because a magazine says its crap, or been warmed to a car because a magazine says its good?
At the end of day its a bunch of blokes who write for a car magazine, yes its a good source to get an idea of a car but really, its all down to everyones personal preference.
Actually I have to disagree with you here. I do believe that on those roads with that car the evo drivers did have problems driving the 911- straight up I believe them. I think in recent years we have lost trust in what auto journalists have to say because they have become inconsistent and vague. But really few of us have the ability or means to take 5 or 8 of the best cars and drive them back to back with one another comparing notes along the way- month after month whereby writers develop an deeper understanding of how cars compare and how they drive with all sorts of different options and on different roads in direct comparison with one another. At the end of day its a bunch of blokes who write for a car magazine, yes its a good source to get an idea of a car but really, its all down to everyones personal preference.
Indeed such hard driving is rare and few are as gifted in this department as some of the editors at the main magazines. j
j123 said:
KennyGT said:
I think they may be explaining that they are not 100 pro Porsche. TBH have you ever been put off a car because a magazine says its crap, or been warmed to a car because a magazine says its good?
At the end of day its a bunch of blokes who write for a car magazine, yes its a good source to get an idea of a car but really, its all down to everyones personal preference.
Actually I have to disagree with you here. I do believe that on those roads with that car the evo drivers did have problems driving the 911- straight up I believe them. I think in recent years we have lost trust in what auto journalists have to say because they have become inconsistent and vague. But really few of us have the ability or means to take 5 or 8 of the best cars and drive them back to back with one another comparing notes along the way- month after month whereby writers develop an deeper understanding of how cars compare and how they drive with all sorts of different options and on different roads in direct comparison with one another. At the end of day its a bunch of blokes who write for a car magazine, yes its a good source to get an idea of a car but really, its all down to everyones personal preference.
Indeed such hard driving is rare and few are as gifted in this department as some of the editors at the main magazines. j
I often find my own findings of cars are the complete opposite of what the journos say aswell.
I think one of the key issues with the 911, is quite simply, that the competitor, the GT-R, wasn't just close in terms of delivery, but it was absolutely outstanding.
Porsche have to move on with the next revision of the car and the involves bringing in new technology. If you think about the revisions from MY09 GTR to MY12 GTR the revisions are sizable and I think people need to concede that Porsche is effectively piloting a new piece of tech.
Give them some time to work on it before you declare them 'beaten', they deserve better - as do EVO's writers.
I think we have been flattered by Porsche's willingness to deliver phenomenal drivers cars towards the end of the last design & we need to give them chance to get into their stride on this.
It's the same with the people criticising the GTR for not being track-ready (or, for those of you who contest that, not AS track ready) as labelled porsche performance offerings. Perhaps see what nissan do on the MY revisions over the next two years for more track-orientated cars.
On the note of EVO editorial content. Personally if they focused less on talking about the latest hot hatches (popular as they might be) and added a detailed section from a Supercar onwer - with detailed ins and outs i'd be far happier paying my subscription charges.
New golf GTI great, bothered. Pagani Zonda has a carbon fuse-box holder, now i'm interested.
Porsche have to move on with the next revision of the car and the involves bringing in new technology. If you think about the revisions from MY09 GTR to MY12 GTR the revisions are sizable and I think people need to concede that Porsche is effectively piloting a new piece of tech.
Give them some time to work on it before you declare them 'beaten', they deserve better - as do EVO's writers.
I think we have been flattered by Porsche's willingness to deliver phenomenal drivers cars towards the end of the last design & we need to give them chance to get into their stride on this.
It's the same with the people criticising the GTR for not being track-ready (or, for those of you who contest that, not AS track ready) as labelled porsche performance offerings. Perhaps see what nissan do on the MY revisions over the next two years for more track-orientated cars.
On the note of EVO editorial content. Personally if they focused less on talking about the latest hot hatches (popular as they might be) and added a detailed section from a Supercar onwer - with detailed ins and outs i'd be far happier paying my subscription charges.
New golf GTI great, bothered. Pagani Zonda has a carbon fuse-box holder, now i'm interested.
I'm a bit surprised (or am I?) no one seems to give much thought/notice to evo's 911 test.
Heres my take on it. Evo started the article with this...
"TO the majority of 911 buyers this probably won't matter- if anything it will give them more confidence. But to us it does..."
That tells me they no longer think that buyers care all that much about what "evoness" IS so much anymore- at least with regard to the core evo tenants of steering feel and chassis faithful handling behavior.
And to this I'd say that they have lost their authority they once had- now when they make statement very few listen. Why? because they let their standards go down and choose to put people like Harris front and center to represent evoness. So i'd say they are partly to blame for no one caring about things like chassis behavior in varying conditions and things like steering feel. I'm glad however that they have rediscovered it. (at least for this month)
Heres my take on it. Evo started the article with this...
"TO the majority of 911 buyers this probably won't matter- if anything it will give them more confidence. But to us it does..."
That tells me they no longer think that buyers care all that much about what "evoness" IS so much anymore- at least with regard to the core evo tenants of steering feel and chassis faithful handling behavior.
And to this I'd say that they have lost their authority they once had- now when they make statement very few listen. Why? because they let their standards go down and choose to put people like Harris front and center to represent evoness. So i'd say they are partly to blame for no one caring about things like chassis behavior in varying conditions and things like steering feel. I'm glad however that they have rediscovered it. (at least for this month)
Edited by j123 on Monday 5th March 19:10
R1gtr said:
Im guessing it was beaten because it came up against a GTR which is superb in all departments, looking forward to the new Porsche Turbo against the GTR, that will be a battle
GTR =£70k New Turbo at a guess £120k. GTR has already won. As for this new 991 bores me to death.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff