Q for the vets re "putting a dog to sleep"
Discussion
A colleague has had his 5yr old GSD recently diagnosed with ACL rupture. The dog is otherwise healthy with no other health issues but isn't insured.
Chatting to my colleague today he indicated that he had been told that an op was needed and suggested that would be somewhere around £1k.
He said that he couldn't possibly afford that and would have to get the vet to put the dog to sleep. Notwithstanding the fact that he is a higher rate taxpayer and I am sure if he says money is that tight then it will be... but I was a bit taken aback at that.
Anyhow, I just wondered if this was a more common scenario these days and in general terms what, if anything, vets do (or can do) to facilitate a different outcome.
Chatting to my colleague today he indicated that he had been told that an op was needed and suggested that would be somewhere around £1k.
He said that he couldn't possibly afford that and would have to get the vet to put the dog to sleep. Notwithstanding the fact that he is a higher rate taxpayer and I am sure if he says money is that tight then it will be... but I was a bit taken aback at that.
Anyhow, I just wondered if this was a more common scenario these days and in general terms what, if anything, vets do (or can do) to facilitate a different outcome.
My vet outright refuses. He had a person say they wanted their cat PTS because it was diabetic and needed a daily injection. He demanded they show him how they would inject (after he showed them) and they did it easily, then kept the cat... But of course there are always vets who would be willing to act.
In that situation I would hope he would at least consider putting the dog up for rescue...
In that situation I would hope he would at least consider putting the dog up for rescue...
If the dog has ruptured its cruciate, £1k sounds about right (or even slightly low) for a gold standard repair. There's a couple of less sophisticated techniques which usually produce acceptable outcomes and cost less, so if finances are an issue its worth having another chat with the vet to see what other options there are. If he's not happy with the vet's answers, probably worth getting a 2nd opinon from another vet prior to euthanasia.
Alternatively amputation of the limb is much more straightforward surgery than cruciate repair, depends on the GSD's other leg and whether he'd be happy with a 3 legged dog.
Have seen some dogs which in the past have almost certainly ruptured their cruciates and not had any surgical repair, they usually end with an arthritic joint and a permanent lameness but some seem to tolerate it very well, depends on the dog and the owner's expectations.
Alternatively amputation of the limb is much more straightforward surgery than cruciate repair, depends on the GSD's other leg and whether he'd be happy with a 3 legged dog.
Have seen some dogs which in the past have almost certainly ruptured their cruciates and not had any surgical repair, they usually end with an arthritic joint and a permanent lameness but some seem to tolerate it very well, depends on the dog and the owner's expectations.
Sorry not a Vet and don't understand the acronims but who would "rescue" a dog with a £1000 price tag?
Not trying to be flippant or controversial here, just a serious question
We spent an inordinate amount of time trying to save our last Springer to no avail, the Vet said she was too far gone with a prolapsed disc causing paralysis and the best way forward was euthanasia. An operation in Glasgow "might" have saved her but the journey from Skye would have been too much for her. If she had been correctly diagonosed earlier then she might have lived I guess.
Back in '94 I spent every wednesday for 5 weeks trailing up and down from Northumberland to Cambridge with a Springer who needed cancer treatment, cost a lot in Vet bills and fuel but that was worth it for 6 months extra. Or so we thought at the time although towards the end she was suffering again.
Not trying to be flippant or controversial here, just a serious question
We spent an inordinate amount of time trying to save our last Springer to no avail, the Vet said she was too far gone with a prolapsed disc causing paralysis and the best way forward was euthanasia. An operation in Glasgow "might" have saved her but the journey from Skye would have been too much for her. If she had been correctly diagonosed earlier then she might have lived I guess.
Back in '94 I spent every wednesday for 5 weeks trailing up and down from Northumberland to Cambridge with a Springer who needed cancer treatment, cost a lot in Vet bills and fuel but that was worth it for 6 months extra. Or so we thought at the time although towards the end she was suffering again.
Skyedriver said:
Sorry not a Vet and don't understand the acronims but who would "rescue" a dog with a £1000 price tag?
My local rescue centre will take on any animal (this includes wild rabbit and pigeon) and they will then deal with vets etc and get everything up and running and then set about rehoming.Jasandjules said:
Skyedriver said:
Sorry not a Vet and don't understand the acronims but who would "rescue" a dog with a £1000 price tag?
My local rescue centre will take on any animal (this includes wild rabbit and pigeon) and they will then deal with vets etc and get everything up and running and then set about rehoming.OP, contact the PDSA, I think they'll help, if not your local vet may know of a charity, you could even ring and ask the RSPCA.
Is surgery the only answer?? It may not be the best approach but is it not possible to try conservative management? I am aware this will always mean the leg may have an issue but I can't believe a vet would accept euthanasing it just for this.
If his own vet will do it will they not accept some payments by installments. Ie half at time of op and rest over 3 months.
Tbh it sounds like a good price and really anyone who owns Shepherds should always be prepared for costly bills when they get a problem (nature of th breed unfortunately)
I would be shocked if any of the vets I work with would agree to this (obviously I can't spk for them but I know how they tick pretty well) unless the dog has other issues which may put a different perspective on the decision.
ETa Just read the dog has no other problems so my last sentence irrelevant.
If his own vet will do it will they not accept some payments by installments. Ie half at time of op and rest over 3 months.
Tbh it sounds like a good price and really anyone who owns Shepherds should always be prepared for costly bills when they get a problem (nature of th breed unfortunately)
I would be shocked if any of the vets I work with would agree to this (obviously I can't spk for them but I know how they tick pretty well) unless the dog has other issues which may put a different perspective on the decision.
ETa Just read the dog has no other problems so my last sentence irrelevant.
Nigel Worc's said:
Although your local rescue center are obviously a good bunch, having the dog destroyed or rescued probably isn't going to feel that much different to the family that own it at present.
OP, contact the PDSA, I think they'll help, if not your local vet may know of a charity, you could even ring and ask the RSPCA.
OP, contact the PDSA, I think they'll help, if not your local vet may know of a charity, you could even ring and ask the RSPCA.
PDSA said:
Who can PDSA help?
PDSA Vet Care services are available to pet owners who receive either Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit, and live within a defined catchment area around each PDSA PetAid hospital or practice.
All popular domestic pets are treated, dogs, cats and those described as ‘small furries’.
If the guy is a high rate tax payer he'll not be eligible.PDSA Vet Care services are available to pet owners who receive either Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit, and live within a defined catchment area around each PDSA PetAid hospital or practice.
All popular domestic pets are treated, dogs, cats and those described as ‘small furries’.
I would talk to the vet and see if he can spread the payments. £1000 might be hard in one lump but if the vet will spread the bill over 4 months it may be easier to accommodate.
Rich1973 said:
I'm sorry but how can euthanasia ever be the answer just because a vets bill is too expensive?
To be honest that was really my thoughts initially, particularly in a case like this when at the end of the day, the guy does have the ability to take a loan and borrow and repay the money. Not ideal, but part of the responsibility of owning a dog I would have thought. I was quite taken aback at the black and white picture he painted of what he would do.That aside, not meaning to judge anyones finances but there will be folk out there who do have nowhere to go at this point and I was just wondering if vets offer ad hoc "payment plans" or the like or if, in a scenario like above, it really is euthanasia on demand.
Skyedriver said:
Sorry not a Vet and don't understand the acronims but who would "rescue" a dog with a £1000 price tag?
Not trying to be flippant or controversial here, just a serious question
We spent an inordinate amount of time trying to save our last Springer to no avail, the Vet said she was too far gone with a prolapsed disc causing paralysis and the best way forward was euthanasia. An operation in Glasgow "might" have saved her but the journey from Skye would have been too much for her. If she had been correctly diagonosed earlier then she might have lived I guess.
Back in '94 I spent every wednesday for 5 weeks trailing up and down from Northumberland to Cambridge with a Springer who needed cancer treatment, cost a lot in Vet bills and fuel but that was worth it for 6 months extra. Or so we thought at the time although towards the end she was suffering again.
O/T sounds like you were 'commuting' to Dick White Referrals near Cambridge. Excellent set up.Not trying to be flippant or controversial here, just a serious question
We spent an inordinate amount of time trying to save our last Springer to no avail, the Vet said she was too far gone with a prolapsed disc causing paralysis and the best way forward was euthanasia. An operation in Glasgow "might" have saved her but the journey from Skye would have been too much for her. If she had been correctly diagonosed earlier then she might have lived I guess.
Back in '94 I spent every wednesday for 5 weeks trailing up and down from Northumberland to Cambridge with a Springer who needed cancer treatment, cost a lot in Vet bills and fuel but that was worth it for 6 months extra. Or so we thought at the time although towards the end she was suffering again.
Back on topic - we rescued a 2y/o GSD who developed cancer after about 2 years with us. She was insured but it ran out at 2.5K and we paid a further 1.5K in treatement before it became obvious that the poor girl wasn't going to make it and complications made her life unbearrable and we had to make 'the decision'.
Our bill would have been significantly higher had the vet (at Dick White's) not taken pity on us and stopped charging his time. Thanks Rob (forget surname) it was much appreciated as I was effectively without work at the time and the savings were running low.
Reminder to self: Take Rob a case of beer on this year's open day!
ETA - Rob = Rob Foale and I have just emailed them to see if they are having an open day this year so we call all turn up in posh cars as an added attraction
Edited by Tyre Tread on Tuesday 6th March 16:19
Rich1973 said:
I'm sorry but how can euthanasia ever be the answer just because a vets bill is too expensive?
Completely agree.When you take on a pet, you become responsible for them no matter what.
I've spent nearly a grand on one of our bloody rabbits. How did he repay me? By eating the sofa. Another grand down. But I'm responsible for him so can't complain.
What price is a life? Surely all animals should be shown compassion even if it is a 7quid hamster (and that sodding hamster cost us a fortune too...)
littlegreenfairy said:
Rich1973 said:
I'm sorry but how can euthanasia ever be the answer just because a vets bill is too expensive?
Completely agree.When you take on a pet, you become responsible for them no matter what.
I've spent nearly a grand on one of our bloody rabbits. How did he repay me? By eating the sofa. Another grand down. But I'm responsible for him so can't complain.
What price is a life? Surely all animals should be shown compassion even if it is a 7quid hamster (and that sodding hamster cost us a fortune too...)
It's not a nice scenario. But times are hard for a lot of people. And if you ask someone to choose between the health of their pet, or housing and feeding their kids, it looks bad for the pet.
If this guy is not your boss then tell him you reckon he is bang out of order, tell him to talk to vet about it and explain financially they will struggle, most vets will try to arrange some kind of agreement, always better to be upfront rather than having the OP then when the bill arrives declare that paying it will be a problem.
Or if it was me I would casually ask the guy what vet he uses as you are planning a cat/dog, or not happy with your current vet etc, then phone them and explain one of their clients who could prob afford the treatment is planning to get animal put to sleep, Vets will then be ready to take appropriate action shoud owner try to procede, possibly by offering payment plan, vet may offer their time, contact local rescue to see if they could help etc.
Or if it was me I would casually ask the guy what vet he uses as you are planning a cat/dog, or not happy with your current vet etc, then phone them and explain one of their clients who could prob afford the treatment is planning to get animal put to sleep, Vets will then be ready to take appropriate action shoud owner try to procede, possibly by offering payment plan, vet may offer their time, contact local rescue to see if they could help etc.
Perhaps this is not the time to be flippant, but it irks me to hear this story, albeit reported by 2nd hand rather than as a direct question, how many threads have there been on here about vets recommending/asking about pet insurance, and so being only interested in profit. Insurance is what it says, Insurance. It's only one animal's story, although that is one too many, but probably reflects the fact that a proportion of pet owners do not expect to have to pay for private pet healthcare above the vaccinations and neutering. We often try to facilitate a solution for a pet, but often get stiffed financially by the owners of the treated pet, despite a so-called payment plan. Many of our clients would rather pay for something necessary for their pets, but a number would say they can't afford to pay and shouldn't have to pay.
It would be pertinent to suggest to the owner involved that the situation reflects his values of the lives of his dependent friends, and if they don't begin to re-evaluate, then hopefully contacting their vets would provoke a salvational solution for the innocent dog.
It would be pertinent to suggest to the owner involved that the situation reflects his values of the lives of his dependent friends, and if they don't begin to re-evaluate, then hopefully contacting their vets would provoke a salvational solution for the innocent dog.
Priority is the poor dog, so OP I would try to find out what vet and give them a ring, next time the guy takes dog in a well timed comment from the vet may be enough to get owner to go ahead and pay for the Operation, something like ' It's a pity you don't have insurance, but luckily Rex/Benji(insert dog name) has such loving owners, we have had people sell cars to pay for operations before, they are part of the family, if money is an issue we could arrange a payment schedule etc'.
That would be my advice but someone may think that this is a bad idea,thoughts welcome
That would be my advice but someone may think that this is a bad idea,thoughts welcome
I can't afford a Ferrari! Well, at a push, using all my savings and taking out a bank loan, I probably could. It's just that in the grand scheme of things I have greater priorites.
When this guy says he can't afford £1k to put his dog right, I'd suggest he probably could; just doesn't consider it enough of a priority. The lack of insurance sort of backs up my view (IMHO). What’s his plan when he's got rid of the defective one? Get another?
When this guy says he can't afford £1k to put his dog right, I'd suggest he probably could; just doesn't consider it enough of a priority. The lack of insurance sort of backs up my view (IMHO). What’s his plan when he's got rid of the defective one? Get another?
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