Camshaft wear - opportunities ?
Discussion
Been informed possible early stages of camshaft wear by garage doing service. So experienced PHers:
1. Is camshaft repalcement a DIY job if you have a bit or experience.
2. Any options for upgrade at the same time ? Note that this is a daily drive so any performance improvements need to maintain driveability.
Thanks
1. Is camshaft repalcement a DIY job if you have a bit or experience.
2. Any options for upgrade at the same time ? Note that this is a daily drive so any performance improvements need to maintain driveability.
Thanks
I looked at doing it myself but chose in the end to pay Rob Robertson from V8 Developments.
After I had bought the cam, cam chain kit, gaskets, antifreeze ect ect Robs price started looked like a great deal.
Sadly I no longer have access to a workshop
All I needed was to come up against one seized/sheared bolt and I would have cursed myself for trying to make a saving.
It turns out we found just such a bolt, so I am very pleased I went to Rob, but if you have the facilities and are methodical it looks like a straightforward job, plenty on here have done it.
Cam choice is a subject all on it's own, I went for Rob's "Stealth" profile & have been extremely happy with it.
In the end my cam wasn't that worn, Rob even kindly offered to put everything back together when the valley gasket came off, but to me it made sense to press on.
When the old cam came out you could see a couple of lobes were starting to wear & one was definitely dead.
After the Stealth cam was fitted there was a very noticeable boost in performance, so the job was well worth it in my opinion.
Good luck with it, Dave.
After I had bought the cam, cam chain kit, gaskets, antifreeze ect ect Robs price started looked like a great deal.
Sadly I no longer have access to a workshop
All I needed was to come up against one seized/sheared bolt and I would have cursed myself for trying to make a saving.
It turns out we found just such a bolt, so I am very pleased I went to Rob, but if you have the facilities and are methodical it looks like a straightforward job, plenty on here have done it.
Cam choice is a subject all on it's own, I went for Rob's "Stealth" profile & have been extremely happy with it.
In the end my cam wasn't that worn, Rob even kindly offered to put everything back together when the valley gasket came off, but to me it made sense to press on.
When the old cam came out you could see a couple of lobes were starting to wear & one was definitely dead.
After the Stealth cam was fitted there was a very noticeable boost in performance, so the job was well worth it in my opinion.
Good luck with it, Dave.
Not sure about doing it yourself but this thread covers a lot of bases
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
It seems wear of the OEM camshaft by around 50-70k miles is expected. Is this due to the height of the cam lobes, poor lubrication, or less than great cam followers ?
Do the upgrade camshafts like Piper and Stealth wear after a similar mileage or are they better in this regard ?
Anyone tried roller followers ?
Do the upgrade camshafts like Piper and Stealth wear after a similar mileage or are they better in this regard ?
Anyone tried roller followers ?
A couple of years ago I spoke with Piper Cams at the Race Retro show about the premature cam wear problem on TVR's/RV8.
Piper told me the problem was less to do with the cam & more the consequence of poor quality followers.
Specifically Piper man said the induction hardened followers being used in the mid 1990's were very bad.
I have no evidence to support this, but you have to listen when it's a well established cam manufacturer telling you.
At the end of the day the cam is not fed with oil under pressure, it gets by with splash.
If the engine sees significant periods of inactivity then the lobes & follower faces could easily end up dry.
That first start after a lay up will be when the wear occurs, perhaps thats why some cams seem to last and others don't.
If the car is used regularly I would expect the cam to last a lot longer than in a hobby car that only gets a run every couple of months.
Most of the cams available like the "Stealth" Rob fitted in my Chimaera are chill cast, you are really just choosing a grind that suits your requirements & driving style.
There are a few billet cams on the market, and arguably these may offer an extended life but I stand to be corrected here.
Ultimately, if what the guy from Piper said is correct you would do well to avoid induction hardened followers.
That's another good reason why I left my cam replacement in the hands of Rob Robertson.
He makes his living from such things and his reputation goes before him.
I'm in no doubt he wouldn't entertain anything other than very high quality & proven parts.
Piper told me the problem was less to do with the cam & more the consequence of poor quality followers.
Specifically Piper man said the induction hardened followers being used in the mid 1990's were very bad.
I have no evidence to support this, but you have to listen when it's a well established cam manufacturer telling you.
At the end of the day the cam is not fed with oil under pressure, it gets by with splash.
If the engine sees significant periods of inactivity then the lobes & follower faces could easily end up dry.
That first start after a lay up will be when the wear occurs, perhaps thats why some cams seem to last and others don't.
If the car is used regularly I would expect the cam to last a lot longer than in a hobby car that only gets a run every couple of months.
Most of the cams available like the "Stealth" Rob fitted in my Chimaera are chill cast, you are really just choosing a grind that suits your requirements & driving style.
There are a few billet cams on the market, and arguably these may offer an extended life but I stand to be corrected here.
Ultimately, if what the guy from Piper said is correct you would do well to avoid induction hardened followers.
That's another good reason why I left my cam replacement in the hands of Rob Robertson.
He makes his living from such things and his reputation goes before him.
I'm in no doubt he wouldn't entertain anything other than very high quality & proven parts.
Out of interest, how did the garage predict that the cam showed early signs of wear?
The reason I ask is, I am currently looking for a Chim 400 (non HC) and obviously want to avoid buying one that might have a camshaft that is on the way out?
So any tips on spotting the worn cams will be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Tim
The reason I ask is, I am currently looking for a Chim 400 (non HC) and obviously want to avoid buying one that might have a camshaft that is on the way out?
So any tips on spotting the worn cams will be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Tim
Grey Ghost said:
Not sure about doing it yourself but this thread covers a lot of bases
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
LOL - That's my rough running / cutting out issues ... not actually cam related. http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Phil
CHEF_GOLF said:
MC1 from v8 developments
Would love to be able to drive the MC1, Stealth and H404 camshafts back to back to feel the differences...What I found interesting was that for the H404 V8D say on the website "idle is slightly compromised on a standard injection system (aftermarket injection systems cope far better)" but when I suggested maybe getting an H404 to them as a replacement for the cam on my 4.0HC (so it should already have the pocketed pistons and double valve springs as far as I understand) I was told "the 404 was really designed as a track day camshaft and it will not be nice to drive in traffic at all".
Just be interesting to actually FEEL the differences back to back...
Phil
Edited by Bassfiend on Sunday 11th March 10:12
Bassfiend said:
CHEF_GOLF said:
MC1 from v8 developments
Would love to be able to drive the MC1, Stealth and H404 camshafts back to back to feel the differences...What I found interesting was that for the H404 V8D say on the website "idle is slightly compromised on a standard injection system (aftermarket injection systems cope far better)" but when I suggested maybe getting an H404 to them as a replacement for the cam on my 4.0HC (so it should already have the pocketed pistons and double valve springs as far as I understand) I was told "the 404 was really designed as a track day camshaft and it will not be nice to drive in traffic at all".
Just be interesting to actually FEEL the differences back to back...
Phil
Edited by Bassfiend on Sunday 11th March 10:12
all though on paper specs the 404 is a more severe profile 
i think i would be inclined to go solid lifter version 404 with adjustable push-rods with that baby though 
Simon says said:
trange this, as when i questioned V8D some time back about the H404 compared to the 500 cammed 400 he said the 404 was a later design (obviously) but the low speed manners are similar to what i have already but with a better midrange & top-end i didn't argue with this as they build RV8's all though on paper specs the 404 is a more severe profile i think i would be inclined to go solid lifter version 404 with adjustable push-rods with that baby though
Yeah well I'm getting that itchy feeling (and I don't need a visit to the docs and penicillin) and now thinking about extracting a bit more grunt... all though on paper specs the 404 is a more severe profile i think i would be inclined to go solid lifter version 404 with adjustable push-rods with that baby though Phil
Timward said:
Out of interest, how did the garage predict that the cam showed early signs of wear?
The reason I ask is, I am currently looking for a Chim 400 (non HC) and obviously want to avoid buying one that might have a camshaft that is on the way out?
So any tips on spotting the worn cams will be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Tim
Sorry to be slow at coming back, have only just got car back from garage and had a good talk about this issue. They just thought it was down on power a bit but other indications such as tappet noise were lacking. I guess that's why he said early signs. It could be many other things though. I suspect part of it might be a partially collapsed induction hose (which they didn't appear to notice) - I have an ACT kit to fit so that should prove/disprove that.The reason I ask is, I am currently looking for a Chim 400 (non HC) and obviously want to avoid buying one that might have a camshaft that is on the way out?
So any tips on spotting the worn cams will be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Tim
I had a 'Stealth Cam' from V8 Developments fitted to my 500 Chim about 3 years ago as rolling road showed only 240bhp - on removal found original cam well worn. Stealth has been great - can hold 30mph in 5th if required no problem. Power up around 25bhp (also had ACT smooth bore air intake fitted) - very happy with results. All work was done by Neil Garner. Have not tried other V8D cams but have read plenty of posts here suggest you search PH for more stories. Hope this helps.
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