Triumph Stag as next car Purchase, will I love it or hate it
Discussion
Hey up all so I'm new to this forum and it seems like a useful place to be for all car related stuff so I hope someone can help.
At the moment I'm 19 and am quite happy driving my '07 Fiat Grande Punto what I got last year for my Birthday, for the next few years, but I want my next car to be something rather special and I've always loved and have a soft spot for the Triumph Stag, although I would be in the market for one with the Rover V8 conversion as i've heard of so many horror stories about the Triumph V8.
What I wanted to know is, when I'm like 22/23 and my insurance premium comes down enough would I regret buying one or are they awesome cars, i've been told quite a few times never drive your dream car, because it'll not be what you expect and you'll be disappointed, but well the stag is on my top 10 list, but my number one is the mighty Audi Quattro.
Insurance is just totally insane at the moment I was quoted £11,500 a few weeks back on my own policy I guess the V8 engine is a no, no being 19
shame
thanks
At the moment I'm 19 and am quite happy driving my '07 Fiat Grande Punto what I got last year for my Birthday, for the next few years, but I want my next car to be something rather special and I've always loved and have a soft spot for the Triumph Stag, although I would be in the market for one with the Rover V8 conversion as i've heard of so many horror stories about the Triumph V8.
What I wanted to know is, when I'm like 22/23 and my insurance premium comes down enough would I regret buying one or are they awesome cars, i've been told quite a few times never drive your dream car, because it'll not be what you expect and you'll be disappointed, but well the stag is on my top 10 list, but my number one is the mighty Audi Quattro.
Insurance is just totally insane at the moment I was quoted £11,500 a few weeks back on my own policy I guess the V8 engine is a no, no being 19
shame thanks
Edited by rjnicko on Sunday 11th March 19:05
rjnicko said:
Hey up all so I'm new to this forum and it seems like a useful place to be for all car related stuff so I hope someone can help.
At the moment I'm 19 and am quite happy driving my '07 Fiat Grande Punto what I got last year for the next few years, but I want my next car to be special and I've always loved and have a soft spot for the Triumph Stag, although I would be in the market for one with the Rover V8 conversion as i've heard of so many horror stories about the Triumph V8.
What I wanted to know is, when I'm like 22/23 and my insurance premium comes down enough would I regret buying one or are they awesome cars, i've been told quite a few times never drive your dream car, because it'll not be what you expect and you'll be disappointed, but well the stag is on my top 10 list, but my number one is the mighty Audi Quattro.
Insurance is just totally insane at the moment I was quoted £11,500 a few weeks back on my own policy I guess the V8 engine is a no, no being 19 shame
thanks
Give MSM Insurance a call if you fancy a V8 At the moment I'm 19 and am quite happy driving my '07 Fiat Grande Punto what I got last year for the next few years, but I want my next car to be special and I've always loved and have a soft spot for the Triumph Stag, although I would be in the market for one with the Rover V8 conversion as i've heard of so many horror stories about the Triumph V8.
What I wanted to know is, when I'm like 22/23 and my insurance premium comes down enough would I regret buying one or are they awesome cars, i've been told quite a few times never drive your dream car, because it'll not be what you expect and you'll be disappointed, but well the stag is on my top 10 list, but my number one is the mighty Audi Quattro.
Insurance is just totally insane at the moment I was quoted £11,500 a few weeks back on my own policy I guess the V8 engine is a no, no being 19
shame thanks
I paid £1100 TPFT on my TVR when i was 19
I bought my first when I was your age (and all this was fields etc etc).
I have heard that, recently, classic car insurance for young uns has become an issue. The Triumph Sports Six club (and others) are trying to sort something.
umm..yeah. Classics. You either get them or you don't. Well from the point of view of attacking a road and feeling the car underneath you scythe through a corner as you balance it on the power then they just aren't like that. Relative to modern cars they are generally flopsy and wobbly and 'loose'. There are some exceptions, but a Triumph Stag is not one of them. In cold, hard sports car terms you Fiat will be better then a Stag, I'd probably rather drive that on a track day then my Stag. There are other pleasures to owning a classic (noise, and the directness of feeling with the mechanicals for example) but you need to know what you are getting yourself in for. Personally, for me, classics feel much more natural then a modern. I can go without driving my stag for months, jump in it and be happy at once however after using the XJ6 for a few weeks recently it took a fair bit of acclimatisation to get used to my BMW. The gearstick was in the wrong place, the engine needed revving the nuts off it to get anywhere, the wipers where on the wrong side, I couldn't see out of it etc etc. this despite me having owned the BMW for 5 years and using it as a daily driver.
Stag. Actually feels quite modern. Power steering, excellent brakes, nice smooth, revvy engine and it feels stiffer then a lot of classics. Excellent heating and ventilation, good driving position, quiet inside etc. As for handling well, yes it's a tourer. There is fun to be had punting it down a nice smooth flowing road but it just isn't like a modern. However it is very responsive, again, after driving the Stag the BMW feels very dull and sluggish and muted.
Everything you have heard about the Stag engine is correct. Unless it can be proved that it's been done recently then you need to factor in £2000+ for head rebuilds. That said it's a wonderful engine when working, much freer revving then the Rover, more like a sports car engine. There is a feature in this months Classics Monthly which agrees with me.
In my experience you need £7k+ for a decent Stag. Plenty look nice in the adverts but are horrible when you go to see them. Drive a few, especially if you haven't driven a classic before you need to know what's right and what is not. I've driven so many that have sluggish engines, loose suspension, over-light steering (because the pressure valve has gone), crap brakes etc etc I guess people put up with it because 'it's an old car, they are all like that'.
Also If you buy a classic you need either the willingness to learn how to fix it or very deep pockets and a friendly local specialist.
I liked my Stag so much that, when it all got too much and I sold it I couldn't find anything to replace it, so bought another one. It's outside now, I'm just changing the oil on it, waiting for the last few dregs to drain from the sump.
In answer to your question, yes. You will both love and hate it.
I have heard that, recently, classic car insurance for young uns has become an issue. The Triumph Sports Six club (and others) are trying to sort something.
umm..yeah. Classics. You either get them or you don't. Well from the point of view of attacking a road and feeling the car underneath you scythe through a corner as you balance it on the power then they just aren't like that. Relative to modern cars they are generally flopsy and wobbly and 'loose'. There are some exceptions, but a Triumph Stag is not one of them. In cold, hard sports car terms you Fiat will be better then a Stag, I'd probably rather drive that on a track day then my Stag. There are other pleasures to owning a classic (noise, and the directness of feeling with the mechanicals for example) but you need to know what you are getting yourself in for. Personally, for me, classics feel much more natural then a modern. I can go without driving my stag for months, jump in it and be happy at once however after using the XJ6 for a few weeks recently it took a fair bit of acclimatisation to get used to my BMW. The gearstick was in the wrong place, the engine needed revving the nuts off it to get anywhere, the wipers where on the wrong side, I couldn't see out of it etc etc. this despite me having owned the BMW for 5 years and using it as a daily driver.
Stag. Actually feels quite modern. Power steering, excellent brakes, nice smooth, revvy engine and it feels stiffer then a lot of classics. Excellent heating and ventilation, good driving position, quiet inside etc. As for handling well, yes it's a tourer. There is fun to be had punting it down a nice smooth flowing road but it just isn't like a modern. However it is very responsive, again, after driving the Stag the BMW feels very dull and sluggish and muted.
Everything you have heard about the Stag engine is correct. Unless it can be proved that it's been done recently then you need to factor in £2000+ for head rebuilds. That said it's a wonderful engine when working, much freer revving then the Rover, more like a sports car engine. There is a feature in this months Classics Monthly which agrees with me.
In my experience you need £7k+ for a decent Stag. Plenty look nice in the adverts but are horrible when you go to see them. Drive a few, especially if you haven't driven a classic before you need to know what's right and what is not. I've driven so many that have sluggish engines, loose suspension, over-light steering (because the pressure valve has gone), crap brakes etc etc I guess people put up with it because 'it's an old car, they are all like that'.
Also If you buy a classic you need either the willingness to learn how to fix it or very deep pockets and a friendly local specialist.
I liked my Stag so much that, when it all got too much and I sold it I couldn't find anything to replace it, so bought another one. It's outside now, I'm just changing the oil on it, waiting for the last few dregs to drain from the sump.
In answer to your question, yes. You will both love and hate it.
I suggest that you look for a Stag that has the Triumph engine and has been sorted out. The Stag could have been a world beating car if it had been developed and built properly. My dad worked on the project (industrial engineer team, mid level) and tells sad tales of mismanagement and of workforce messing about. The Rover conversion is not needed if you find a car which has had the right work done to the original set up. I know of a very good one for sale. The Stag is a delightful car, with a great exhaust note, and a wonderful stylish cruiser. As noted above, owning and running any classic car is a labour of love-hate, but the love usually outweighs the hate.
Be very, very choosy and look at several Stags before buying. Good ones are much better than "interesting" projects, and look long and hard to detect bodges. Take a professional with you, or a well informed friend. Take your time. enjoy!
Be very, very choosy and look at several Stags before buying. Good ones are much better than "interesting" projects, and look long and hard to detect bodges. Take a professional with you, or a well informed friend. Take your time. enjoy!
The Stag v8 engine is I think my favourite V8 noise, very "woofly" if you know what I mean. You'll end up paying a lot more for insurance if you buy one modified with a Rover v8, and because it's been done by a bloke in a shed there's no guarantee it'll be better than what used to be in there.
This all makes interesting reading, since a Stag is my shortlist, too. One thing I would like to know. I am aware that replacement cylinder heads and timing chains are a must have item. Is that a once and for all fix, or will the replacements be almost as fragile and short-lived as the originals?
The prices asked for Stags seems to vary considerably. I have seen cars described as "fully restored", with new body panels and a rebuilt engine for around £8,000, with other similarly described cars for £12,000+.
The prices asked for Stags seems to vary considerably. I have seen cars described as "fully restored", with new body panels and a rebuilt engine for around £8,000, with other similarly described cars for £12,000+.
OP, will the Stag be your only car? If so I`d think long and hard about that. Classics are great when the sun shines and everything is dry and warm. Cold wet winter early mornings are a different story altogether.
I love old Triumphs dearly but I wouldn`t use one as my only car. An old smoker wouldn`t cope with it, whereas something nice that possibly could stand up to it would slowly (or quickly) deteriorate into an old smoker. Also the more you use a classic the less "special" each drive feels. All IMHO of course.
My advice would be by all means get a Stag, they are fabulous when sorted, but also get a snotter for daily trundling.
I love old Triumphs dearly but I wouldn`t use one as my only car. An old smoker wouldn`t cope with it, whereas something nice that possibly could stand up to it would slowly (or quickly) deteriorate into an old smoker. Also the more you use a classic the less "special" each drive feels. All IMHO of course.
My advice would be by all means get a Stag, they are fabulous when sorted, but also get a snotter for daily trundling.
I am not sure if the OP envisages the Stag as the daily car. We have discussed the use of classic cars as dailies before. I ran my Interceptor as my main car for well over a year, adding about 13,000 miles to its record, and depleting the planet's oil reserves by another few billion barrels. Recent climate change effects are probably entirely down to me; sorry, people. My wallet also seemed strangely lighter than it used to be. I kept the car out and active all through the harsh winter of 2010/11. Fun? Certainly, but the poor old thing took a beating. I gave it the next winter off, and from now on it will be a weekend fun car only. I now have to spend a fair few quid on the car to bring it back to the sort of shiny state that it was in when I bought it. So, it can be done, but as in all things, there is a price.
Edited by Breadvan73 on Sunday 11th March 07:57
thanks for the advice guys its been really helpful. I can imagine i'll most likely have access to my parents car as well, my dads thinking about getting a BMW 635 (new shape) sadly not the gorgeous 1980s one , but the Stag would be my main car i'd buy myself and perhaps It would be better buying one with the original V8, as long as there isn't the head casket warping what i've heard so many times before.
I can understand that the Stag is not a sports car, I'm really not a fan of Ferraris or anything of the sort. I like larger GT cars and executive saloons like the A8, 7 Series, S-Class etc.
I know this is most likely a stupid question, but what sort of MPG does the Stag actually get? just out of curiosity of course.
And would I be better with a manual or Automatic, if I'm honest i'm not much of a fan of modern day automatics, but a lot of the stags seem to be autos with very few manuals around
thanks
, but the Stag would be my main car i'd buy myself and perhaps It would be better buying one with the original V8, as long as there isn't the head casket warping what i've heard so many times before. I can understand that the Stag is not a sports car, I'm really not a fan of Ferraris or anything of the sort. I like larger GT cars and executive saloons like the A8, 7 Series, S-Class etc.
I know this is most likely a stupid question, but what sort of MPG does the Stag actually get? just out of curiosity of course.
And would I be better with a manual or Automatic, if I'm honest i'm not much of a fan of modern day automatics, but a lot of the stags seem to be autos with very few manuals around
thanks
Edited by rjnicko on Sunday 11th March 09:36
Have you seen that bronze 1985 635i that's for sale for about 3 to 4K in Hertfordshire? It's on carandclassic. You could maybe start yourself on something that is or is becoming a classic, but is quite modern(ish).
Big old GTs are fun, and they work well for long Euro trips, touring Eire or the Highlands, and that sort of thing. Part of the pleasure of classic car ownership is that your car brings pleasure to others who see it. Allow extra time at each fuel stop to chat to people who come up to talk about the car. You can make up the time later, as people will let you out at junctions, let you change lanes etc, often with a grin and a wave. There will be a few negative comments, and some risk of nihilist vandalism, but many people like to see stylish old cars out and about.
RAC men will love you, because they can have a realistic shot at fixing your car by the roadside when (it is when and not if) it breaks down, whereas with modern cars they mostly have to stick them on a low loader and send them to the computer shop (there are exceptions - it is still an internal combustion engine under that plastic cover). Maybe the day is fast approaching when they will fix modern cars using an iPhone app, without even leaving base, but until that day, spanners and comedy swearing still have their uses.
Big old GTs are fun, and they work well for long Euro trips, touring Eire or the Highlands, and that sort of thing. Part of the pleasure of classic car ownership is that your car brings pleasure to others who see it. Allow extra time at each fuel stop to chat to people who come up to talk about the car. You can make up the time later, as people will let you out at junctions, let you change lanes etc, often with a grin and a wave. There will be a few negative comments, and some risk of nihilist vandalism, but many people like to see stylish old cars out and about.
RAC men will love you, because they can have a realistic shot at fixing your car by the roadside when (it is when and not if) it breaks down, whereas with modern cars they mostly have to stick them on a low loader and send them to the computer shop (there are exceptions - it is still an internal combustion engine under that plastic cover). Maybe the day is fast approaching when they will fix modern cars using an iPhone app, without even leaving base, but until that day, spanners and comedy swearing still have their uses.
Edited by Breadvan73 on Sunday 11th March 09:54
The Stag was unquestionably a fabulous concept, dogged, as said earlier by internal management disputes which hampered quality control. Without doubt the easiest and most cost effective route would have been to use the V8 Rover engine. It was internal politics not technical reasons that prevented that.
Manual or automatic is down to personal preference I guess, but expect consumption around 20 in town.
I always liked Stags, despite the fact that they would love you one day then slap you round the face and sulk the next. It never stopped me buying them.
With one of those as a Summer car and a Dolomite Sprint as a winter car the "great smell of Brut" was lost in a permanent whiff of anti-freeze" (the OP is too youg to remember that!)
Manual or automatic is down to personal preference I guess, but expect consumption around 20 in town.
I always liked Stags, despite the fact that they would love you one day then slap you round the face and sulk the next. It never stopped me buying them.
With one of those as a Summer car and a Dolomite Sprint as a winter car the "great smell of Brut" was lost in a permanent whiff of anti-freeze" (the OP is too youg to remember that!)
Tell me, please, about how practical running a well cared for Dolomite Sprint might be. I have often fell the pull, but thus far have resisted. Having said that, I want to buy one of pretty much every sporty or sporty-ish car ever made in Britain and some parts of Europe between the mid 60s and the late 70s*. Hey ho, better work harder.
- Except for the MGs (sorry to those who love them) and also I would not bother with all but a very few of the most uber-exotic supercars; and I would confine myself to one early and unbespoilered 911. Apart from that, kindly deliver the entire fleet to my place by Thursday. Do you take Amex?
2/3 of stags built where auto. Personally I think it's a shame to smother the V8 by hooking it up to an auto. It makes the car a bit slow and lazy, having only 3 speeds. It's fine but I like really driving my stag, as I said it's sharpness and responsivness is something I like about it, an auto lessens that. Having said all that the manual gearbox isn't great with baulky, slow shifts but the overdrive makes up for it.
As above, 25mpg from a well set up manual on a run, doing the same driving where my 328i would return 30+.
I drove my stag as my only car for a few months. As a car to get you about it's fine (mine had/has a hardtop for winter but the hood is weatherproof if a bit noisy at motorway speeds) and I enjoyed it however I couldn't cope with having to leaving it out in the rain, driving it on salt covered roads or with leaving it in dodgy town centre car parks over night. It was awesome in the snow though!
As above, 25mpg from a well set up manual on a run, doing the same driving where my 328i would return 30+.
I drove my stag as my only car for a few months. As a car to get you about it's fine (mine had/has a hardtop for winter but the hood is weatherproof if a bit noisy at motorway speeds) and I enjoyed it however I couldn't cope with having to leaving it out in the rain, driving it on salt covered roads or with leaving it in dodgy town centre car parks over night. It was awesome in the snow though!
I think that if I ever had a Stag I would prefer it to be a manual one. Do people ever fit four or five speed autoboxes to Stags? There were only a handful of manual Interceptors (all Mark 1s), and a slushbox suits the Jensen, but one expensive upgrade that is possible is to fit a four or even five speed auto in place of the three speed Torqueflite. This apparently makes the fuel consumption merely terrible, instead of absolutely catastrophic, and presumably makes the car a bit more interactive with road and driver. I shall leave mine as it is, I think. I think that I once saw an Alfa Montreal that had an autobox, and I really wasn't sure about that.
FarmerJim said:
This all makes interesting reading, since a Stag is my shortlist, too. One thing I would like to know. I am aware that replacement cylinder heads and timing chains are a must have item. Is that a once and for all fix, or will the replacements be almost as fragile and short-lived as the originals?
The prices asked for Stags seems to vary considerably. I have seen cars described as "fully restored", with new body panels and a rebuilt engine for around £8,000, with other similarly described cars for £12,000+.
Good question. Remanufactured cylinder heads are available from the stag owners club, it depends what they are made from (original heads seem to be made of poor quality alloy, or at least it's different to what they use in modern cars which I am sure doesn't help.) You can fit German made duplex chains which sort that issue, and modern, high quality payen head gaskets are available. With that, and some mods to the cooling system (i.e. fitting a header tank and moving the water pump) should fix most of the issues.The prices asked for Stags seems to vary considerably. I have seen cars described as "fully restored", with new body panels and a rebuilt engine for around £8,000, with other similarly described cars for £12,000+.
Might be worth talking to someone like Tony Heart at enginuity.
I was actually very surprised to see how cheap recon. Stag engines are on eBay.
You seem to get a big spread of values with lots of classics. Detail and originality make the difference I suppose.
...Oh the Interceptor.
I remember sitting in traffic in one about 25 years ago at the start of a longish journey. Before long all that was left on the fuel guage was the maker's name.
I parked it and completed the journey by train.
Best way to run a Dolomite Sprint is to find one that's had everything done and pay top money. A good one is rare but worth paying for and that investment will repay in terms of enjoyment and use, if not necessarily in financial gain.
I remember sitting in traffic in one about 25 years ago at the start of a longish journey. Before long all that was left on the fuel guage was the maker's name.
I parked it and completed the journey by train.
Best way to run a Dolomite Sprint is to find one that's had everything done and pay top money. A good one is rare but worth paying for and that investment will repay in terms of enjoyment and use, if not necessarily in financial gain.
rjnicko said:
.....I can imagine i'll most likely have access to my parents car as well, my dads thinking about getting a BMW 635 (new shape) sadly not the gorgeous 1980s one , but the Stag would be my main car i'd buy myself......
As 19 year old's do not have the best reputation for being sensible when driving cars (no disrespect to the OP), I'd be surprised if any insurance company would be happy to have a 19 year old as a named driver on a new shape 635i without putting the premium up to a ridiculous level TBH. That's a group 45~50 car!, but the Stag would be my main car i'd buy myself...... Edited by rjnicko on Sunday 11th March 09:36
Thanks, Motorist. I am not quite sure that I want a Dolomite quite enough to pay the top wonga, given how many other cars I also want, so it will have to get in the queue.
In the Interceptor, I just drive merrily from one petrol station to another. In traffic, to pass the time and to distract myself from the horror story being told by the fuel gauge; I stare in an obsessive fashion at the voltmeter, particularly if using wipers, demister, lights and stereo. I have had a radiator and fans upgrade, so I no longer have to glue my eyes to the temperature needle.
In the Interceptor, I just drive merrily from one petrol station to another. In traffic, to pass the time and to distract myself from the horror story being told by the fuel gauge; I stare in an obsessive fashion at the voltmeter, particularly if using wipers, demister, lights and stereo. I have had a radiator and fans upgrade, so I no longer have to glue my eyes to the temperature needle.
Edited by Breadvan73 on Sunday 11th March 11:47
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