'05 e46 M3 vs '05 Audi S4
Discussion
I've been looking at e46 M3's for the past few months and think I understand the market. My plan was to find a suitable facelift car with a view of moving up to a later v8 car in a year or two.
My worries about the m3 are:
1) They make their power high up in the rev range. In a passenger ride we were caught out more than once by a high power diesel. I really enjoyed the lazy nature of my RV8 TVRs and my v8 Maserati 3200 and sometimes felt short changed in the t350c.
2) I'll have to occasionally passenger my son around (he's two). The lack of rear doors may make that a little tricky to manage.
Having said that, I do think I'd enjoy one even though I'll probably regret not saving for a v8 model instead.
However, I was looking at Audi S4's today and with more room, rear doors, a v8 and similar fuel consumption figures to the M3 (and better than the BMW v8) I figured they may be decent short term compromise. It's a shame they look so bland though.
To add to the confusion it would appear the convertible S4 is very good value (i.e. cheap) compared to the hard top and all M3s.
So, the question is - will the S4 be in the same league as an M3, and if not, will the M3 irritate me by lacking torque and 4 doors? If the S4 is a decent car, are the convertibles particularly bad (thus the price difference in the used car market)?
My worries about the m3 are:
1) They make their power high up in the rev range. In a passenger ride we were caught out more than once by a high power diesel. I really enjoyed the lazy nature of my RV8 TVRs and my v8 Maserati 3200 and sometimes felt short changed in the t350c.
2) I'll have to occasionally passenger my son around (he's two). The lack of rear doors may make that a little tricky to manage.
Having said that, I do think I'd enjoy one even though I'll probably regret not saving for a v8 model instead.
However, I was looking at Audi S4's today and with more room, rear doors, a v8 and similar fuel consumption figures to the M3 (and better than the BMW v8) I figured they may be decent short term compromise. It's a shame they look so bland though.
To add to the confusion it would appear the convertible S4 is very good value (i.e. cheap) compared to the hard top and all M3s.
So, the question is - will the S4 be in the same league as an M3, and if not, will the M3 irritate me by lacking torque and 4 doors? If the S4 is a decent car, are the convertibles particularly bad (thus the price difference in the used car market)?
Edited by yajeed on Saturday 10th March 22:34
S4 B6's in any form are great motors and the V8 is a really torquey lump. I'd rather have the S4 personally as an everyday car as I agree the e46 tends to need a good thrashing to get the most from it.
I had an RS4 cab for a month as a loaner and got on very well with it. The sound of the V8 in S mode with the roof down was just addictive.
I had an RS4 cab for a month as a loaner and got on very well with it. The sound of the V8 in S mode with the roof down was just addictive.
Contigo said:
S4 B6's in any form are great motors and the V8 is a really torquey lump. I'd rather have the S4 personally as an everyday car as I agree the e46 tends to need a good thrashing to get the most from it.
I had an RS4 cab for a month as a loaner and got on very well with it. The sound of the V8 in S mode with the roof down was just addictive.
That's really useful info - given the praise usually lavished on the M3, I was expecting a very one sided PH opinion and it's good to hear it's not that clear cut. I had an RS4 cab for a month as a loaner and got on very well with it. The sound of the V8 in S mode with the roof down was just addictive.
As for going out and driving both - I'll do that too, just hoped that the PH collective would be able to satisfy my curiousity before I had chance to do that.
Pig Skill said:
What about a 335i or 335d?
4 doors, M3 comparable real world performance, good on fuel and NOT made by Audi
Considered those too. I don't think I want a diesel (wife has a 5 series diesel and though it's a fantastic engine I wanted something a little different). The 335i is more expensive than the Audi, isn't a v8, will have the torque deficit and, well, may feel a bit too run of the mill?4 doors, M3 comparable real world performance, good on fuel and NOT made by Audi
edited to add: hmmm, given the 335 is a turbo, perhaps I'm being a bit hasty on the torque/run of the mill thing...
yajeed said:
As for going out and driving both - I'll do that too, just hoped that the PH collective would be able to satisfy my curiousity before I had chance to do that.
I will. It's an odd answer though. Telling me to 'drive them' feels almost like telling me not to discuss them. Hearing other peoples opinions/experience of cars is what I'll not get from a 30mins test drive, thus the questions/pondering.
yajeed said:
Considered those too. I don't think I want a diesel (wife has a 5 series diesel and though it's a fantastic engine I wanted something a little different). The 335i is more expensive than the Audi, isn't a v8, will have the torque deficit and, well, may feel a bit too run of the mill?
edited to add: hmmm, given the 335 is a turbo, perhaps I'm being a bit hasty on the torque/run of the mill thing...
What torque deficit??!!!! 295 lb ft from just 1300 RPM, are you kdding me? A 335i will out drag either E46 M3 or S4 from low revs, believe me!!edited to add: hmmm, given the 335 is a turbo, perhaps I'm being a bit hasty on the torque/run of the mill thing...
StevieB said:
What torque deficit??!!!! 295 lb ft from just 1300 RPM, are you kdding me? A 335i will out drag either E46 M3 or S4 from low revs, believe me!!
But then you run out of revs all that Torque but it's lacking top end power and revs both S4 and M3 have 340bhp. What is BMWs answer to the RS4? If the S4 is the M3's match then the rs4??
Welshbeef said:
But then you run out of revs all that Torque but it's lacking top end power and revs both S4 and M3 have 340bhp.
What is BMWs answer to the RS4? If the S4 is the M3's match then the rs4??
The RS4 was Audis answer to the E46 M3 and the forth coming e92 M3 and only just beat it in comparison tests of the day vs the M3CS IIRC, by the time the RS4 came out the e46 was due for replacement so the RS4 overlapped with the e46/e92 M3s.What is BMWs answer to the RS4? If the S4 is the M3's match then the rs4??
The S4 produced around 302ft/lb vs the 269ft/lb of the M3 but the Audi weighs 110kg more so the lbft/tonne diffence is negligable with the S4 is very front heavy when pressing on.
Both nice cars but I think the M3 is the better drivers car.
This is a good vid that shows both cars good/bad points vs each other.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/194-fifth-gear-aud...
The RS4 just gets it in the wet, so I would imagine the S4 wouldn't have kept up. (I know lifes not a race track)
http://www.streetfire.net/video/194-fifth-gear-aud...
The RS4 just gets it in the wet, so I would imagine the S4 wouldn't have kept up. (I know lifes not a race track)
I drove both, and settled on a the S4 for several reasons, these being:
1. The S4 is understated, which means that a) people don't race me, b) police don't want to stop me, and c) I can park it anywhere and it doesn't get a second glance
2. It's available as an estate (I have a young child with a lot of baggage!)
3. It's easily as real-world quick as an M3, 4wd a boon in winter
4. It's rarer, and has less of a "rudeboy" image than the M3
5. They have a solid reliability reputation (mine has been rock-solid, and costs relative peanuts to run)
As others have said, the M3 is probably the more "dynamic" of the two, and would probably show it a clean pair of heels on track... But how often are you in that situation?
Hope this helps
1. The S4 is understated, which means that a) people don't race me, b) police don't want to stop me, and c) I can park it anywhere and it doesn't get a second glance
2. It's available as an estate (I have a young child with a lot of baggage!)
3. It's easily as real-world quick as an M3, 4wd a boon in winter
4. It's rarer, and has less of a "rudeboy" image than the M3
5. They have a solid reliability reputation (mine has been rock-solid, and costs relative peanuts to run)
As others have said, the M3 is probably the more "dynamic" of the two, and would probably show it a clean pair of heels on track... But how often are you in that situation?
Hope this helps
In my opinion it depends what you want from the car.
Among many reasons why I love my CS so much as is that when driving around normally you know, hear and feel from the S54 engine that its a caged animal that just is dying to be let go. Rather than having near peak power low / mid range. When you do come out of a corner just right and let the car rev it really lets go and sounds incredible. That said for me I've never found the car to lack torque, granted the engine feels uncomfortable under 2k but anything over 2k it feels strong and within seconds of 2k - 4k half throttle acceleration your up to motorway speed limit. Cant speak for the normal M3 but the handling is also pretty intoxicating with perfect balance and RWD. My final piece of M3 propaganda
is the looks. Every time I see the car it makes me chuckle because of the massive arches, bonnet bulge and very aggressive looks. All just my opinion.
However I do really like the fast Audi's and can definitely see the appeal. Absolutely love the B7 RS4, out of the Audis that would be my choice as its supposed to be a real drivers car and pretty well balanced. They look the business as well.
Among many reasons why I love my CS so much as is that when driving around normally you know, hear and feel from the S54 engine that its a caged animal that just is dying to be let go. Rather than having near peak power low / mid range. When you do come out of a corner just right and let the car rev it really lets go and sounds incredible. That said for me I've never found the car to lack torque, granted the engine feels uncomfortable under 2k but anything over 2k it feels strong and within seconds of 2k - 4k half throttle acceleration your up to motorway speed limit. Cant speak for the normal M3 but the handling is also pretty intoxicating with perfect balance and RWD. My final piece of M3 propaganda
is the looks. Every time I see the car it makes me chuckle because of the massive arches, bonnet bulge and very aggressive looks. All just my opinion.However I do really like the fast Audi's and can definitely see the appeal. Absolutely love the B7 RS4, out of the Audis that would be my choice as its supposed to be a real drivers car and pretty well balanced. They look the business as well.
Edited by leeson660 on Sunday 11th March 22:57
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