Why don't manufacturers just do the easy mods themselves?
Discussion
why don't manufacturers fit bigger exhausts/bigger throttle bodies, larger injectors etc to performance cars, the cost over the OE stuff must be pennies to them and yet they leave cars basically unoptimised.
i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
I remember when the 'Sport' TT (Mk1) came out - the one with the black roof - and every review was talking about the 'hot' engine that Audi had 'boosted' to 240bhp (over the stock 225). Of course, anyone running 225bhp TT at that time had probably had it chipped to 270bhp for £500 by then...
Also, the manufacturers need to provide proper engine dyno "stabilised" power values, not made up down the pub ones.............
Generally these days the std components (injectors/exhaust/intake etc) are so good that you are more likely to loose power than gain it (or trade a 5bhp peak power increase for a 30bhp mid range loss.
Finally, the manufacture has to ensure the engine is reliable through the warantee period. Things like the peak cylinder pressure limit will be set to get a level of convidence (statisically speaking) in the durability of the engine. Aftermarket tuners tend not to bother with all that stuff (let alone peak exhaust temps and catalyst ageing etc).
Marketing and price also pay a part, with volume cost savings meaning the OEM will sell several models, all with different outputs, but with the same (or very similar) engine hardware. (325d/330d etc) This leaves an easy "chipping" route for the aftermarket tuners with no reliability penalty.
Generally these days the std components (injectors/exhaust/intake etc) are so good that you are more likely to loose power than gain it (or trade a 5bhp peak power increase for a 30bhp mid range loss.
Finally, the manufacture has to ensure the engine is reliable through the warantee period. Things like the peak cylinder pressure limit will be set to get a level of convidence (statisically speaking) in the durability of the engine. Aftermarket tuners tend not to bother with all that stuff (let alone peak exhaust temps and catalyst ageing etc).
Marketing and price also pay a part, with volume cost savings meaning the OEM will sell several models, all with different outputs, but with the same (or very similar) engine hardware. (325d/330d etc) This leaves an easy "chipping" route for the aftermarket tuners with no reliability penalty.
Greg_D said:
why don't manufacturers fit bigger exhausts/bigger throttle bodies, larger injectors etc to performance cars, the cost over the OE stuff must be pennies to them and yet they leave cars basically unoptimised.
i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
Do you really have to ask??? i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
Type approval
Emissions
Warranty
Serviceability
Manufacturing cost
Production simplification
R&D costs
And the simple fact that often there is no need. Even cars like a Porker Turbo are still aimed at a middle ground
mrloudly said:
Why don't Landrover do the popular Defender mod of lowering the bulkhead behind the seats and extending the seat rails so anyone over 6' can
drive in comfort??? Beggars belief that there must be loads of potential customers who don't buy 'cause they're too tall in a std car...
Drive a Defender in comfort?! Even our high spec XS was pretty testing on anything longer than a 50 mile trip!drive in comfort??? Beggars belief that there must be loads of potential customers who don't buy 'cause they're too tall in a std car...
in the days of flat caps and carburettors, some old boy told me that an engine-any engine- is a comprimise between power, emissions, fuel economy, relisbility, and nvh. Carefully chosen by the manufacturer, to tune an engine one way will be to the detrement of something else on that list. I guess its still relevent?
Greg_D said:
why don't manufacturers fit bigger exhausts/bigger throttle bodies, larger injectors etc to performance cars, the cost over the OE stuff must be pennies to them and yet they leave cars basically unoptimised.
i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
It isn't rocket science.i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
You are assuming that more power makes a car more optomised for road use?
You also seem to think that tuning companies know more than manufacturers who spend the GDP of a small country on R&D. For example, after market exhausts on modern cars add didly squat to performance. Do you really think after spending millions developing an engine they would go and ruin it by adding a duff exhaust. Tuners will of course tell you adding an aftermarket exhaust will add power, and will give you a handy RR print out to "prove it". A chap I know put a full milltek system on his 07' car at great expense for a total of 1 bhp! Yes, 20 years ago it might have been different but not anymore.
Yes, they could fit frutier cams, bigger TB's, larger injectors and agressive timing etc, but for a few more ponies they would sacrifice idle quality, throttle response, fuel economy etc, which 99% of customers will not appreciate, and would make the car a pig to drive in traffic.
Cars are designed for a market, and have to comply with market conditions, as well as stringent regulations. They are not race cars developed to the nth degree where these conditions don't apply.
300bhp/ton said:
Greg_D said:
why don't manufacturers fit bigger exhausts/bigger throttle bodies, larger injectors etc to performance cars, the cost over the OE stuff must be pennies to them and yet they leave cars basically unoptimised.
i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
Do you really have to ask??? i understand that they need to develop cars for a worldwide market and all the infinite variables that may occur regarding regulations/fuel variations etc. leaving a bit in the tank for model 'upgrades' is also a valid marketing ploy, but when you get cars like for example the 997 turbo that is clearly never going to be a bangladeshi taxi run on goat p155, why not release the ponies that all the tuning companies seem to find so easily, you don't need to run the engines to the point of exploding, i'm talking about better exhausts, a fruitier cam, fruitier intake, mildly pushing the timing/fuel/boost envelope, bigger injectors all easily attainable for maybe £100 (if that) to the manufacturer.
Type approval
Emissions
Warranty
Serviceability
Manufacturing cost
Production simplification
R&D costs
And the simple fact that often there is no need. Even cars like a Porker Turbo are still aimed at a middle ground
The alarm on my e36 bmw was not factory fitted, but it was manufacturer fitted as an aftermarket alarm. I also had something similar with an old jeep and it's cruise control setup.
The manufacturer could easily sell the car to you, but prior to you receieving it, upgrade certain parts as an aftermarket package, thereby bypassing emissions goals for the company, providing different warranty/service terms for those parts etc etc.
Vladimir said:
mrloudly said:
Why don't Landrover do the popular Defender mod of lowering the bulkhead behind the seats and extending the seat rails so anyone over 6' can
drive in comfort??? Beggars belief that there must be loads of potential customers who don't buy 'cause they're too tall in a std car...
Drive a Defender in comfort?! Even our high spec XS was pretty testing on anything longer than a 50 mile trip!drive in comfort??? Beggars belief that there must be loads of potential customers who don't buy 'cause they're too tall in a std car...
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