mx-5 turbo vs impreza turbo wagon
Discussion
TLDR: In short: how much money does it take to get an mx5 with a reliable 230hp, and an impreza wagon with a reliable 300 hp, what are the running costs for both (considering the power increase).
The car would run on LPG, and be stripped, except for the passenger seat, stereo and central heating.
Yearly tax for the mx5 would be 285 euro, for the impreza wagon (light cargo!), it would be between 40 and 60 euro.
For your information: 1 pound = ~1,2 euro
Hi all!
I'm looking around to buy a new car. It has to be fun (no fwd, and be able to make pretty good progress!), rather cheap, and preferably reliable.
I've bought a standard mx-5 bbr turbo a few months ago, but the car has issues. Fixing those AND paying for the tuning to get it to the desired power level, would be more expensive than buying another one in a better state.
So my ideas:
another mx-5 turbo, around 230 hp, with at least semi-decent suspension and preferably a roll bar/cage. This should be around 3000-3500 gbp.
OR an impreza wagon. No idea about the prices, but non-wagon impreza's seem to be rather cheap too, and from what i've read, they are pretty reliable too.
The wrx would need about 300 hp to be comparable to the mx5 in straight line performance. I'm not sure how easy you can get that, and how reliable it stays?
The reason for a wagon is simple: tax advantage.
If the rear seats are removed, I can register it as 'lichte vracht', what roughly translates as 'light cargo'. Yearly tax would be 40-60 euro.
For normal cars, it would be this:
[quote]0 tot 0,7 € 73,79
0,8 tot 0,9 € 92,27
1 tot 1,1 € 133,32
1,2 tot 1,3 € 174,24
1,4 tot 1,5 € 215,42
1,6 tot 1,7 € 256,61
1,8 tot 1,9 € 297,4
2 tot 2,1 € 385,84
2,2 tot 2,3 € 474,41
2,4 tot 2,5 € 562,72
2,6 tot 2,7 € 651,16
2,8 tot 3 € 739,73
3,1 tot 3,2 € 968,88
3,3 tot 3,4 € 1198,16
3,5 tot 3,6 € 1427,58
3,7 tot 3,9 € 1656,34
4 tot 4,1 € 1885,62
[/quote](engine size in l, prices in euro. For the mx-5 it would be 256,61 euro, and for a 2l wrx without the 'light cargo', it would be 385,84 euro.
That's an important reason to go jap/turbo. I'd love an RX7 FD, but they are classified as a 2.6, so I would waste 650 euros a year, just to be allowed to drive it.
Insurance will probably be roughly the same. I'm paying a little over 700 euro for my mx5 turbo now, but apparantly it's near the highest category, so the impreza wouldn't be more expensive. In general, they only look at the power of the car, and if it's classified as a sportscar or not (the mx5 isn't, a honda crx is :lol
I'm not sure about the running costs. Tires on the mx5 are cheap (195/50/15). The impreza will be more expensive, but manageable (205 or 215 wide, not sure about the size). Discs and pads are pretty cheap for an mx5, no idea for the impreza. I also have no idea about the general maintenance/costs of (aftermarket) parts. I'll probably let a friend who's a mechanic do most of the work, so labor is not that expensive.
Fuel costs shouldn't differ that much either. I will buy a modern LPG installation. The advantage with the wrx is that the weightdistribution will probably be a bit better than before, and that the extra weight is less noticable than it is on the lighter mx5. I will still have enough bootspace too (although that is not really an issue for me).
Some notes:
No import. You need to go through a unique homologation procedure if there aren't any european (certificate of conformity) or belgian papers available. so cars only produced in japan are a no go. the homologation process is expensive and takes ages. An eunos roadster for example, has no european/belgian papers, so that wouldn't work, even though it is basicly the same car. This also ruins the possibility of a mr2 turbo.
I don't care about comfort. The plan is to strip the car of roughly all excess weight, except for the passenger seat, central heating and a stereo.
Lightweight is also good, so I'd prefer an old gen impreza, since they are lighter than the new ones (and probably cheaper too!). The mx5 would be a first gen 1.6, since it's the only (except for maybe some rare/expensive mazdaspeed version) version that has papers for a turbo (thanks to bbr!). The plus is that it's also the lightest mx5.
I will possibly be tempted to spend more money on aftermarket parts on the mx5, since they look seriously good with a lip, duckwing and some nice wheels. A wrx wagon is quite a bit harder to make it look good, and I would probably not be tempted to do so.
My driving style might be more suited to something rally like, than to something sporty. I don't like to brake for speedbumps, and a gravel road is fun. Something that's not really a smart idea to do with an mx5 on a firm suspension that is probably pretty low too.
On the other hand: I'd love to give drifting a try, and it is likely that I will do some trackdays in the future.
I'm guessing that both cars are fun to drive, but just in another way.
I don't really care for an open top or not.
I like the idea of small, lightweight cars (performance through (lack of) weight). The (generally) cheaper running costs are a big plus too!
Other options are also welcome! These 2 seem to be the most interesting. The mx5 is a good handling car, with a small engine(tax!) and cheap servicing/parts. Most other interesting cars are at least 2l, and weigh a lot more (so bigger tires/brakes), so the main reason that the impreza is interesting, is the tax advantage, but the driving style looks like fun.
I would dare to consider a kitcar, but again, it's very hard to get them imported an registered here, if possible at all. The prices are also higher (well, for the brands that I know to be rather good(caterham, westfield)). An Elise/VX220 would be interesting too, but purchase price is again quite a bit higher, and they seem like more serious cars (less sideways fun). Also, LPG isn't really an option (it would mess up the weight/balance too much with such a light car, and it would matter more because they are more expensive). And a crash would be quite a bit worse/expensive on one of those too.
Like I said before: I'd love to have an RX7 FD. The purchasing price doesn't seem to be the problem, but the tax and the possible issues with the engine are. It's also a way to nice car to mess up, and I would be afraid to get it scratched, which would limit the fun I could have.
In short: how much money does it take to get an mx5 with a reliable 230hp, and an impreza wagon with a reliable 300 hp, what are the running costs for both (considering the power increase).
For your information: 1 pound = ~1,2 euro
Thanks for reading this way too long post. Once I'm on a roll, I can't seem to stop
The car would run on LPG, and be stripped, except for the passenger seat, stereo and central heating.
Yearly tax for the mx5 would be 285 euro, for the impreza wagon (light cargo!), it would be between 40 and 60 euro.
For your information: 1 pound = ~1,2 euro
Hi all!
I'm looking around to buy a new car. It has to be fun (no fwd, and be able to make pretty good progress!), rather cheap, and preferably reliable.
I've bought a standard mx-5 bbr turbo a few months ago, but the car has issues. Fixing those AND paying for the tuning to get it to the desired power level, would be more expensive than buying another one in a better state.
So my ideas:
another mx-5 turbo, around 230 hp, with at least semi-decent suspension and preferably a roll bar/cage. This should be around 3000-3500 gbp.
OR an impreza wagon. No idea about the prices, but non-wagon impreza's seem to be rather cheap too, and from what i've read, they are pretty reliable too.
The wrx would need about 300 hp to be comparable to the mx5 in straight line performance. I'm not sure how easy you can get that, and how reliable it stays?
The reason for a wagon is simple: tax advantage.
If the rear seats are removed, I can register it as 'lichte vracht', what roughly translates as 'light cargo'. Yearly tax would be 40-60 euro.
For normal cars, it would be this:
[quote]0 tot 0,7 € 73,79
0,8 tot 0,9 € 92,27
1 tot 1,1 € 133,32
1,2 tot 1,3 € 174,24
1,4 tot 1,5 € 215,42
1,6 tot 1,7 € 256,61
1,8 tot 1,9 € 297,4
2 tot 2,1 € 385,84
2,2 tot 2,3 € 474,41
2,4 tot 2,5 € 562,72
2,6 tot 2,7 € 651,16
2,8 tot 3 € 739,73
3,1 tot 3,2 € 968,88
3,3 tot 3,4 € 1198,16
3,5 tot 3,6 € 1427,58
3,7 tot 3,9 € 1656,34
4 tot 4,1 € 1885,62
[/quote](engine size in l, prices in euro. For the mx-5 it would be 256,61 euro, and for a 2l wrx without the 'light cargo', it would be 385,84 euro.
That's an important reason to go jap/turbo. I'd love an RX7 FD, but they are classified as a 2.6, so I would waste 650 euros a year, just to be allowed to drive it.
Insurance will probably be roughly the same. I'm paying a little over 700 euro for my mx5 turbo now, but apparantly it's near the highest category, so the impreza wouldn't be more expensive. In general, they only look at the power of the car, and if it's classified as a sportscar or not (the mx5 isn't, a honda crx is :lol
I'm not sure about the running costs. Tires on the mx5 are cheap (195/50/15). The impreza will be more expensive, but manageable (205 or 215 wide, not sure about the size). Discs and pads are pretty cheap for an mx5, no idea for the impreza. I also have no idea about the general maintenance/costs of (aftermarket) parts. I'll probably let a friend who's a mechanic do most of the work, so labor is not that expensive.
Fuel costs shouldn't differ that much either. I will buy a modern LPG installation. The advantage with the wrx is that the weightdistribution will probably be a bit better than before, and that the extra weight is less noticable than it is on the lighter mx5. I will still have enough bootspace too (although that is not really an issue for me).
Some notes:
No import. You need to go through a unique homologation procedure if there aren't any european (certificate of conformity) or belgian papers available. so cars only produced in japan are a no go. the homologation process is expensive and takes ages. An eunos roadster for example, has no european/belgian papers, so that wouldn't work, even though it is basicly the same car. This also ruins the possibility of a mr2 turbo.
I don't care about comfort. The plan is to strip the car of roughly all excess weight, except for the passenger seat, central heating and a stereo.
Lightweight is also good, so I'd prefer an old gen impreza, since they are lighter than the new ones (and probably cheaper too!). The mx5 would be a first gen 1.6, since it's the only (except for maybe some rare/expensive mazdaspeed version) version that has papers for a turbo (thanks to bbr!). The plus is that it's also the lightest mx5.
I will possibly be tempted to spend more money on aftermarket parts on the mx5, since they look seriously good with a lip, duckwing and some nice wheels. A wrx wagon is quite a bit harder to make it look good, and I would probably not be tempted to do so.
My driving style might be more suited to something rally like, than to something sporty. I don't like to brake for speedbumps, and a gravel road is fun. Something that's not really a smart idea to do with an mx5 on a firm suspension that is probably pretty low too.
On the other hand: I'd love to give drifting a try, and it is likely that I will do some trackdays in the future.
I'm guessing that both cars are fun to drive, but just in another way.
I don't really care for an open top or not.
I like the idea of small, lightweight cars (performance through (lack of) weight). The (generally) cheaper running costs are a big plus too!
Other options are also welcome! These 2 seem to be the most interesting. The mx5 is a good handling car, with a small engine(tax!) and cheap servicing/parts. Most other interesting cars are at least 2l, and weigh a lot more (so bigger tires/brakes), so the main reason that the impreza is interesting, is the tax advantage, but the driving style looks like fun.
I would dare to consider a kitcar, but again, it's very hard to get them imported an registered here, if possible at all. The prices are also higher (well, for the brands that I know to be rather good(caterham, westfield)). An Elise/VX220 would be interesting too, but purchase price is again quite a bit higher, and they seem like more serious cars (less sideways fun). Also, LPG isn't really an option (it would mess up the weight/balance too much with such a light car, and it would matter more because they are more expensive). And a crash would be quite a bit worse/expensive on one of those too.
Like I said before: I'd love to have an RX7 FD. The purchasing price doesn't seem to be the problem, but the tax and the possible issues with the engine are. It's also a way to nice car to mess up, and I would be afraid to get it scratched, which would limit the fun I could have.
In short: how much money does it take to get an mx5 with a reliable 230hp, and an impreza wagon with a reliable 300 hp, what are the running costs for both (considering the power increase).
For your information: 1 pound = ~1,2 euro
Thanks for reading this way too long post. Once I'm on a roll, I can't seem to stop
Interesting reading, very confusing the different way things are done over there, makes your purchasing hard work by the sounds of it!
I'm not going to give the most detailed answer unfortunately, but I would imagine both cars are similar in terms of running cost, but are obviously two different beasts to own / live with. Perhaps drive some and see which you prefer?
I'm not going to give the most detailed answer unfortunately, but I would imagine both cars are similar in terms of running cost, but are obviously two different beasts to own / live with. Perhaps drive some and see which you prefer?
Sorry for bumping this, but I am revisiting the question.
I own an mx-5 turbo (1.8 NA with an FlyinMiata3 kit (the precurser to the current FM2 now), LSD, NB sport brakes, and the FM suspension package (adjustable dampers with harder lowering springs), and a few other bits).
The car is still running on petrol, but I started to doubt my decision.
To be honest, I am not THAT impressed with the mx-5. It drives good, it's not slow, but I somewhat expected more. It's not as pure as I hoped (it has power steering and abs, but I doubt that removing those would solve my 'problem'). The sensation isn't that good imo, and the car is still pretty big (I am used to small hatchbacks without any options).
As for power: a golf 6 gti that has an expensive exhaust and has been remapped, and should make around 260hp, is slightly faster, starting from 30mph in second gear. I feel that I would win from a standard GTI.
I think that I can get some more power by getting my car properly mapped, but I'm not sure how much difference it would make.
One of the main reasons that I am doubting, is because of the LPG. I thought about running LPG only, since the extra weight and location of the tank make a difference in the light mx5, but that set up makes it quite a bit more expensive. Also, there's not much info on mx5's on lpg, let alone on turbo 5's. There are however quite a lot of impreza's on lpg.
Also, since I don't think the mx5 is all that great, the downgrade (as a 'driver's car') might not bother me that much. For some reason, I don't seem to care that much about the lpg setup on the impreza. Possibly because it most likely won't have a stand alone engine management, which makes it quite a bit harder to set the car up to start on lpg. Also, the weight balance would more likely become better instead of worse, compared to the mx5. The rally-like setup of the suspension might also be more suited to my driving and prefered roads (the 5 is pretty low, you have to be careful on bumpy roads).
Another important factor, is that I wouldn't lose money on the 5. I've got a great deal on it, and it's worth quite a bit more than I paid. It might be possible that I can get the impreza+lpg install for the money I'd get for the 5.
Also, the car might fail the technical inspection each year, because of the turbo setup, as it's a 1.8, and not the 1.6 that has been homologated by mazda (as the bbr turbo), although this might also be an issue for the impreza that caught my eye (1994 sti in a GL chassis, because the sti chassis had a lot of rust. so on paper it's a GL, but in fact, it's an STI, which I doubt Subaru will rectify, but I'll be contacting them tomorrow. Tax advantage if I get a wagon, but this is also not the case for the car that caught my eye.
Things in favor for the 5: I have the car, no need to go looking for another one. It looks pretty cool (it has the finish line bodykit with big (but heavy) wheels), even though the paintwork is crap and there's silver anti-rust paint on the rear sills/arches/doors). It -should- be the drivers car, and the basics are sorted (decent suspension, good brakes, turbo setup). Running costs should be cheaper (a lot of spare parts, cheaper parts, possibly cheaper tires (if I ditch the big wheels), easier to work on engine. Has had all the fluids/filters changed 2 months ago (but there's an oil leak somewhere, the car runs hot when fooling around (noticed that the main fan doesn't turn on), the gasket of the thermostat is leaky, and the gearbox is not perfect (hard to get in 3rd when booting it, 5th gear crunches from time to time)
The LPG is a very important car of any car I'll -realistically- own. 70+ euro's for driving 260 km's is not doable for a daily driver, for me at least.
(if only they made that formula ford 1l car for <10k!)
Buying a cheap secondary car is not that interesting financially, and it's a whole lot less fun.
-I really need to work on cutting down to the important stuff-
Anyway, idea's/suggestions?
I own an mx-5 turbo (1.8 NA with an FlyinMiata3 kit (the precurser to the current FM2 now), LSD, NB sport brakes, and the FM suspension package (adjustable dampers with harder lowering springs), and a few other bits).
The car is still running on petrol, but I started to doubt my decision.
To be honest, I am not THAT impressed with the mx-5. It drives good, it's not slow, but I somewhat expected more. It's not as pure as I hoped (it has power steering and abs, but I doubt that removing those would solve my 'problem'). The sensation isn't that good imo, and the car is still pretty big (I am used to small hatchbacks without any options).
As for power: a golf 6 gti that has an expensive exhaust and has been remapped, and should make around 260hp, is slightly faster, starting from 30mph in second gear. I feel that I would win from a standard GTI.
I think that I can get some more power by getting my car properly mapped, but I'm not sure how much difference it would make.
One of the main reasons that I am doubting, is because of the LPG. I thought about running LPG only, since the extra weight and location of the tank make a difference in the light mx5, but that set up makes it quite a bit more expensive. Also, there's not much info on mx5's on lpg, let alone on turbo 5's. There are however quite a lot of impreza's on lpg.
Also, since I don't think the mx5 is all that great, the downgrade (as a 'driver's car') might not bother me that much. For some reason, I don't seem to care that much about the lpg setup on the impreza. Possibly because it most likely won't have a stand alone engine management, which makes it quite a bit harder to set the car up to start on lpg. Also, the weight balance would more likely become better instead of worse, compared to the mx5. The rally-like setup of the suspension might also be more suited to my driving and prefered roads (the 5 is pretty low, you have to be careful on bumpy roads).
Another important factor, is that I wouldn't lose money on the 5. I've got a great deal on it, and it's worth quite a bit more than I paid. It might be possible that I can get the impreza+lpg install for the money I'd get for the 5.
Also, the car might fail the technical inspection each year, because of the turbo setup, as it's a 1.8, and not the 1.6 that has been homologated by mazda (as the bbr turbo), although this might also be an issue for the impreza that caught my eye (1994 sti in a GL chassis, because the sti chassis had a lot of rust. so on paper it's a GL, but in fact, it's an STI, which I doubt Subaru will rectify, but I'll be contacting them tomorrow. Tax advantage if I get a wagon, but this is also not the case for the car that caught my eye.
Things in favor for the 5: I have the car, no need to go looking for another one. It looks pretty cool (it has the finish line bodykit with big (but heavy) wheels), even though the paintwork is crap and there's silver anti-rust paint on the rear sills/arches/doors). It -should- be the drivers car, and the basics are sorted (decent suspension, good brakes, turbo setup). Running costs should be cheaper (a lot of spare parts, cheaper parts, possibly cheaper tires (if I ditch the big wheels), easier to work on engine. Has had all the fluids/filters changed 2 months ago (but there's an oil leak somewhere, the car runs hot when fooling around (noticed that the main fan doesn't turn on), the gasket of the thermostat is leaky, and the gearbox is not perfect (hard to get in 3rd when booting it, 5th gear crunches from time to time)
The LPG is a very important car of any car I'll -realistically- own. 70+ euro's for driving 260 km's is not doable for a daily driver, for me at least.
(if only they made that formula ford 1l car for <10k!)
Buying a cheap secondary car is not that interesting financially, and it's a whole lot less fun.
-I really need to work on cutting down to the important stuff-
Anyway, idea's/suggestions?
TameRacingDriver said:
You said you like rallying, not slowing down for speed humps and you want LPG - Impreza for me.
You said you like a lightweight car. Early Imprezas are not heavy for what they are.
I would imagine with some rear drive bias the Impreza will drift too.
Fit beefy adjustable ARB's and have a good geometry setup and you can dial it in to "drive" a bit more from the back. I had my type ra set so that the back would just start to break when accelerating hard out of a corner.You said you like a lightweight car. Early Imprezas are not heavy for what they are.
I would imagine with some rear drive bias the Impreza will drift too.
I've moved away from Impreza's now and have a standard power 1.6 eunos. Much more fun than any of the Imprezas I owned.
I would indeed be looking for an early model, mainly for the lower weight (lower price is a plus too, of course)
I guess I'll have to get a ride in one to compare. I registered myself on the local Subaru forums, I'd better make a thread!
@mneame: what model(s) did you have? Why do you enjoy the Eunos more?
I guess I'll have to get a ride in one to compare. I registered myself on the local Subaru forums, I'd better make a thread!
@mneame: what model(s) did you have? Why do you enjoy the Eunos more?
Impreza tuning stuff here:
http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/58901.html
300bhp could easily be reached for £1500...
http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/58901.html
300bhp could easily be reached for £1500...
I had 3. First was a JDM WRX MY 94. Spent more on what it looked like than making it go and handle better. As a result, fine in the dry, not so good in the wet.
Second was a JDM WRX Type RA MY93. Great as standard but I spent a fortune on handling mods. Great car on the country lanes. Shocking on the motorway though due to the short ratio box. This was my favourite. A great car but still needed to be "pushed" to have any real fun.
Third was a JDM STi MY 97. More refined and quick out of the box. But again unless you were pushing it was all a bit like driving on rails in the dry.
The MX5 is much more fun at slower speeds. The back will start to let go a little but it's just set up so well. In the wet you can drift it nicely but it will pitch fully sideways if you get it wrong or push a little too much.
I'm thinking of going FI with mine but I'm on the fence with that because at the moment it's so driveable as it is.
Ok the Impreza and most other cars on the road will walk all over it for top speed, but there's so much more of a sense of occasion after driving the mx.
Second was a JDM WRX Type RA MY93. Great as standard but I spent a fortune on handling mods. Great car on the country lanes. Shocking on the motorway though due to the short ratio box. This was my favourite. A great car but still needed to be "pushed" to have any real fun.
Third was a JDM STi MY 97. More refined and quick out of the box. But again unless you were pushing it was all a bit like driving on rails in the dry.
The MX5 is much more fun at slower speeds. The back will start to let go a little but it's just set up so well. In the wet you can drift it nicely but it will pitch fully sideways if you get it wrong or push a little too much.
I'm thinking of going FI with mine but I'm on the fence with that because at the moment it's so driveable as it is.
Ok the Impreza and most other cars on the road will walk all over it for top speed, but there's so much more of a sense of occasion after driving the mx.
Thank you for the feedback! I've got 2 people who offered to take me for a drive, both have a MY 99 GT Turbo, 1 is stock, the other 1 is stripped (and probably has some other mods, I guess), so that should give me a good idea
Is there a lot of difference between the earlier classics, and the later classics?
Is there a lot of difference between the earlier classics, and the later classics?
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