E60 M5 Leather / HiFi Options query

[griffith400]

Can I ask you guys for some advice please. Been researching the E60 M5 over the last 6months and read Eddie's guides and everyone's posts with much interest. Just need finances to improve (don't we all)!

Anyway, two things that I'm not clear on and seems misleading from the way they're listed are the following:

- Extended or Full leather.
I realise the 'extended' leather is actually the standard option with 'Full' being the more expensive option with more leather. However, so many are advertised as 'Full Extended' leather??? What's the actual difference and how can you tell them apart? Also, can you tell from pictures to save lengthy travel only to find they've been advertised wrong?

- Logic 7 or Individual HiFi.
I usually upgrade my in car Stereo to 3rd party head unit, amp, speakers. However, the complexity of the E60 and integrated systems makes me wary of doing it in one of these. I understand the Logic 7 is good but that there is an upgraded 'Individual HiFi' option on the E60. Again, anyway to identify these as they again seem to be advertised in a confusing use of both terms! Any tell tale visual differences?

I'd be grateful for any advice, guidance or experience of these.

Thanks guys,

Steve.

[Cheburator mk2]

griffith400 said:

Can I ask you guys for some advice please. Been researching the E60 M5 over the last 6months and read Eddie's guides and everyone's posts with much interest. Just need finances to improve (don't we all)!

Anyway, two things that I'm not clear on and seems misleading from the way they're listed are the following:

- Extended or Full leather.
I realise the 'extended' leather is actually the standard option with 'Full' being the more expensive option with more leather. However, so many are advertised as 'Full Extended' leather??? What's the actual difference and how can you tell them apart? Also, can you tell from pictures to save lengthy travel only to find they've been advertised wrong?

- Logic 7 or Individual HiFi.
I usually upgrade my in car Stereo to 3rd party head unit, amp, speakers. However, the complexity of the E60 and integrated systems makes me wary of doing it in one of these. I understand the Logic 7 is good but that there is an upgraded 'Individual HiFi' option on the E60. Again, anyway to identify these as they again seem to be advertised in a confusing use of both terms! Any tell tale visual differences?

I'd be grateful for any advice, guidance or experience of these.

Thanks guys,

Steve.

I can help on the first one. Full leather was a £5k option from the factory and it really covers everything. There is not a single piece of plastic anywhere in the car. Everything is draped in leather - the dashboard, the centre console, the doors; and the roof lining, a, b and c pillars are covered in black alcantara. It took me 6mths to find a car with the option and I would not have one without as it makes the cabin special. Look for stitching on the dash board and on the door cards. That's the surest way to find out...

As with regards to the Logic 7 - my E61 has it and I think it was made by HK, thus I think you will be OK on the sound front. I think the individual system was a touch better, but not worth the same premium as a full leather interior over extended leather...

[Zod]

Full leather has leather dash and door cappings.

When I ordered mine, Logic 7 was the premium offering.

[foz01]

Logic 7 is very very good, had it in mine, you can find it in the audio options of the i drive.

[scz4]

I have Logic 7 in my 550i, fantastic sound system, best factory sound I've heard by miles. There are a few guides online on tuning the equaliser to improve the sound further.

[griffith400]

Cheburator mk2 said:

I can help on the first one. Full leather was a £5k option from the factory and it really covers everything. There is not a single piece of plastic anywhere in the car. Everything is draped in leather - the dashboard, the centre console, the doors; and the roof lining, a, b and c pillars are covered in black alcantara. It took me 6mths to find a car with the option and I would not have one without as it makes the cabin special. Look for stitching on the dash board and on the door cards. That's the surest way to find out...

As with regards to the Logic 7 - my E61 has it and I think it was made by HK, thus I think you will be OK on the sound front. I think the individual system was a touch better, but not worth the same premium as a full leather interior over extended leather...

Thanks for the replies guys.

Great info Cheburator. Now I know what to look for!
Clever marketing calling the basic leather 'extended', gives the impression of it being more than standard! Thanks for the tip on spotting the Full Leather variation. Just what I wanted :-)

You're probably right about Logic 7 being sufficient. Will know better once I hear but if it's not quite what I'm after, upgrading is likely to be too expensive after the fact. Just wondered how you tell the Logic 7 apart from the updated 'Individual HiFi'? Just like the leather, many cars are advertised using both keywords ("Individual Logic 7 HiFi installed") so wondered how to identify them? Anybody got the Individual system in an E60?

Thanks everyone!

Steve.

[Slurms]

Individual Audio was available as an option but wasn't it only on the post 2007 facelift?

[andygtt]

I've spent more than 3k on the sound system in some of my previous cars... and I think the one in my M5 is very good

I personally wouldnt buy a second hand M5 without full leather as it really does make the interior special, was it worht 5k extra? not a chance lol

[griffith400]

Thanks Slurms, I'd defo be after a facelift LCi model anyway. Prefer the updated LED lights, interior etc.


Cheers Andy, I agree. It would be a lot of money to get those options buying new and you never really get recoup the cost selling the cars on...although makes the car more desirable. As you suggest, I'd probably prefer to get a car that has Full Leather as I'm buying 2nd hand, particularly after the comments you guys have made about it

Which HiFi option does yours have, Logic 7 or Individual? Logic 7 is highly regarded and costs less so seems the usual option (although hard to tell as adverts often say " Individual Logic 7 HiFi"??, which is why I wondered how to spot the difference). However, like yourself, I often get upgraded kit for my cars (Alpine Head & Amp, replacement speakers, sub and upgraded cabling) so although Logic 7 is a good step from basic Manufacturer kit, it's got more to compete with for me.

Steve.

[ds666]

The logic 7 in my last one was really good - the best car audio I've heard . The std audio is ok but you will definately want to upgrade it ( although I have asked what people have done (as my current one only has std) and got no answers ).Local place wanted to put 2 subs in the passenger footwell ...
Full leather really lifts the inside .

[griffith400]

Thanks DS666,

I'm defo sold on the Full Leather. Once the coffers reach the required level and I start to actually looking at examples, I know what to look for. I'm in Scotland so it's an even rarer beast up here so can't even have an early look at some to see and hear these options.

I used to having custom HiFi installs, dumping standard kit so think I'm used to having kit at least Logic 7 comparable if not better. The complexity and integration of the M5's kit might make this too expensive so I'm interested in hearing the installed options but want to know how to tell the Logic 7 & Individual systems apart before travelling hundreds of miles as it seems adverts don't clearly differentiate the two!

Thanks mate!

[scz4]

Where in Scotland are you?

As I said above, I have a E61 550i with Logic 7 and more than happy with it, fantastic system. Think it's got 14 speakers, including two subs under each front seat. I'm located in Aberdeen if you want to listen\tinker with it, take your favourite tunes along

The going forward is I'm going to need this setup in every BMW I buy from now on and it's not easy to find on the used market unfortunately

Edited by scz4 on Thursday 15th March 16:55

[omniflow]

Full leather is very confusing in most adverts - lots of them use a phrase like "full extended leather interior", when in fact it's just bog standard extended leather. I THINK (but I'm not certain) that proper full leather goes hand-in-hand with the Alcantara roof lining - you probably won't spot that from photos, but if you ask the question, you might get an honest answer. If the leather is not black, you might be able to tell from a photo that shows the glovebox lid, and you might also be able to tell from the tops of the doors. Full vs. extended also has a big impact if you have a non-black leather, extended has some black elements that then meet together with the trim (alu for most cars) and the coloured leather. With the red leather this looks like a train wreck.

As for sound systems - that's just as confusing. I count either 11 or 13 speakers in my e61, but I'm almost certain that it's NOT Logic 7 - however, I've got absolutely no idea what it is. Reason for confusion over 11 or 13, is that there might be 2 speakers in each of the roof mounted rear units, but each speaker cover definitely has at least one working speaker under it - I can hear them when I listen up close. There are definitely subwoofers under each of the front seats. Personally I'm quite underwhelmed with whatever it is. I think you'll find it not appropriate to change the head unit, but you will be able to upgrade the amps and speakers fairly easily and probably the wiring too. If anyone can tell me what my system is likely to be I would like to know.

[ecain63]

omniflow said:

Full leather is very confusing in most adverts - lots of them use a phrase like "full extended leather interior", when in fact it's just bog standard extended leather. I THINK (but I'm not certain) that proper full leather goes hand-in-hand with the Alcantara roof lining - you probably won't spot that from photos, but if you ask the question, you might get an honest answer. If the leather is not black, you might be able to tell from a photo that shows the glovebox lid, and you might also be able to tell from the tops of the doors. Full vs. extended also has a big impact if you have a non-black leather, extended has some black elements that then meet together with the trim (alu for most cars) and the coloured leather. With the red leather this looks like a train wreck.

As for sound systems - that's just as confusing. I count either 11 or 13 speakers in my e61, but I'm almost certain that it's NOT Logic 7 - however, I've got absolutely no idea what it is. Reason for confusion over 11 or 13, is that there might be 2 speakers in each of the roof mounted rear units, but each speaker cover definitely has at least one working speaker under it - I can hear them when I listen up close. There are definitely subwoofers under each of the front seats. Personally I'm quite underwhelmed with whatever it is. I think you'll find it not appropriate to change the head unit, but you will be able to upgrade the amps and speakers fairly easily and probably the wiring too. If anyone can tell me what my system is likely to be I would like to know.

The alcantara head lining was a seperate option.

[griffith400]

scz4 said:

Where in Scotland are you?

As I said above, I have a E61 550i with Logic 7 and more than happy with it, fantastic system. Think it's got 14 speakers, including two subs under each front seat. I'm located in Aberdeen if you want to listen\tinker with it, take your favourite tunes along

The going forward is I'm going to need this setup in every BMW I buy from now on and it's not easy to find on the used market unfortunately

Thanks Scz4, that's a very kind offer. I'm
In the Stirling area so a bit far really. Guess I'll hear them when I start looking but was very interested how to tell Logic 7 apart from the Individual system since adverts seem a confusing mix of both.

You're right though, once you've got used to enjoying the better quality setup, there's no going back!!!

[griffith400]

omniflow said:

Full leather is very confusing in most adverts - lots of them use a phrase like "full extended leather interior", when in fact it's just bog standard extended leather. I THINK (but I'm not certain) that proper full leather goes hand-in-hand with the Alcantara roof lining - you probably won't spot that from photos, but if you ask the question, you might get an honest answer. If the leather is not black, you might be able to tell from a photo that shows the glovebox lid, and you might also be able to tell from the tops of the doors. Full vs. extended also has a big impact if you have a non-black leather, extended has some black elements that then meet together with the trim (alu for most cars) and the coloured leather. With the red leather this looks like a train wreck.

Cheburator gave a good tip about looking for stitching if the seller is unclear!

As for sound systems - that's just as confusing. I count either 11 or 13 speakers in my e61, but I'm almost certain that it's NOT Logic 7 - however, I've got absolutely no idea what it is. Reason for confusion over 11 or 13, is that there might be 2 speakers in each of the roof mounted rear units, but each speaker cover definitely has at least one working speaker under it - I can hear them when I listen up close. There are definitely subwoofers under each of the front seats. Personally I'm quite underwhelmed with whatever it is. I think you'll find it not appropriate to change the head unit, but you will be able to upgrade the amps and speakers fairly easily and probably the wiring too. If anyone can tell me what my system is likely to be I would like to know.

You've hit the nail of my problem on the head Omniflow! Adverts seem to imply a mix of both....with both the Leather AND HiFi options. Yes, I'll be able to tell the Leather when I view a car in person, of course! Bit if a bummer if I travel a couple hundred miles to see a car I think is full leather only to find its Extended!

The HiFi is a different issue. Still confusing wording on adverts but there seems no clear way to identify one from the other and little on any website to help. You're a good example as an owner of one and still not sure yourself! Yes, once again, it may be more obvious in person but if I decide I really prefer the Individual option, I'd love to know how to tell if it has it before travelling hundreds of miles!

Steve.

Edited by griffith400 on Thursday 15th March 21:57

[PeterNem]

You can spot the Individual Hi-Fi system as the speakers in the door cards have metal trim around them - seems to be a pretty rare option.

See: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou...

[griffith400]

PeterNem said:

You can spot the Individual Hi-Fi system as the speakers in the door cards have metal trim around them - seems to be a pretty rare option.

See: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou...

Perfect, thanks Peter, exactly what I was after!

I always struggle doing searches on the M5Board as it seems to bombard you with irrelevant posts so thanks for finding and linking that one. Precisely what I needed.

[Cheburator mk2]

ecain63 said:

The alcantara head lining was a seperate option.

No it was not - it came as standard on the full leather interior... Never seen a standard car with alcantara...

[griffith400]

Typically, I've just found a 2009 M5 Options & Price List brochure!
http://205.196.121.164/f4upgfgbo0pg/nyo31h9vm39xnz...

It lists the HiFi Options, leather options (says Full leather comes with dashboard in leather and Alcantara headlining), lists a description of things like Comfort Access or Sun Protection Glass (which are a bit vague if you don't know what they are).

It's obviously for the LCi Facelifted models but covers all options and prices for both the E60 & E61 Touring!

Steve.