ESPN Classic - British Grand Prix 1975
Discussion
Watched this last night and couldn't believe how dangerous the sport looked.
No run off areas
No armco
Catch fencing that looked like something out of B&Q
Crowd trackside with no protective fencing
Deep ditches at the side of the track
Unbelievable how much the sport has came on.
PS Jackie Stewart was definately a great driver but as a commentator he was
No run off areas
No armco
Catch fencing that looked like something out of B&Q
Crowd trackside with no protective fencing
Deep ditches at the side of the track
Unbelievable how much the sport has came on.
PS Jackie Stewart was definately a great driver but as a commentator he was
Edited by pattyg on Wednesday 14th March 22:02
Edited by pattyg on Wednesday 14th March 22:02
Chunkychucky said:
Eric Mc said:
Pity they don't have any races on tape from 1955. They would make 1975 look easy peasy.
or even 1965The advent of downforce in 1968 raised cornering speeds massively in a very short space of time. Failures of components (including the new aerodynamic devices) due to heavier cornering and G-loads went up rapidly too as the cars had also become quite a bit lighter than (say) their 50s counterparts.
Formula 1 has reached 2 'critical masses' in terms of safety IMHO. As mentioned above 68-70 was one, and for me, 1994 was the other. Suddenly shorn of driver aids and clever suspension, cars such as the FW16 were still enormously fast, but very hard to drive (I know thats the point, but they were tough even relatively speaking). Coupled with fast circuits, cockpits that were very short, and only ended below the shoulder. IIRC Sauber pioneered the raised cockpit side in this season.
Both periods where speed had outstripped safety to an alarming degree and the latter suddenly caught up.
Both periods where speed had outstripped safety to an alarming degree and the latter suddenly caught up.
Edited by Vocal Minority on Thursday 15th March 11:42
Chris Sideways said:
Was this the race where a lot of cars were going off at the same corner after a sudden rain shower (Hunt included)in to each other and when they quickly panned back to all the wreckage you could see maybe a marshal being pulled unconscious from under a car? That looked really nasty 
I can see the picture you mean. I always thought that was one of the bearded Germans of the period.I'm pretty sure he was sat in a car and a catch fence pole had struck him on the head.
Chris Sideways said:
Was this the race where a lot of cars were going off at the same corner after a sudden rain shower (Hunt included)in to each other and when they quickly panned back to all the wreckage you could see maybe a marshal being pulled unconscious from under a car? That looked really nasty
That's the one...definately looked like a marshalI was on the pit wall in '73 when Jody Scheckter decided to take out half of the grid as he exited the old Woodcote corner at Silverstone....
How no-one on the track or in the pits got killed or seriously injured that day i will never know. The film footage was scary enough - being there was even worse.
Thankfully safety of the drivers improved year after year thanks, in no small part, to JYS.
I agree he was awful when commentating however his contribution to F1 safety should never be forgotten.
How no-one on the track or in the pits got killed or seriously injured that day i will never know. The film footage was scary enough - being there was even worse.
Thankfully safety of the drivers improved year after year thanks, in no small part, to JYS.
I agree he was awful when commentating however his contribution to F1 safety should never be forgotten.
There was a thread on another forum I use about the classic British GPs on ESPN. I made the rather contentious point that, despite how awesome Grand Prix racing was back then, I'd never wish us to go back to the 1970s. I accept the flaws of the current regime and I find Bahrain as dull as anyone else but the safety of the cars and circuits was unbearable. I went to pay tribute to the Tom Pryce memorial in Rhuthin on Sunday and it brings a tear to my eye to recall the number of special men we lost in unforgiveable circumstances. I adore motor racing history - I live for it - but I count myself extremely fortunate that as a regular race-goer for over 20 years I've only witnessed a single fatality. I can guarantee that would be a very different number had I been born 30 years earlier.
What is interesting is that many of the cars from that era continue to be raced quite hard today - and they occasionally crash - sometimes very heavilly. Yet we are not seeing the levels of fatalities we saw back then.
Surely that must indicate that the REAL safety improvements have been in track safety features, removal of hazards from teh trackside, better safety equipment in the cars and helmets/clothing, better fire prevention and better trained marshalls.
The cars themselves are pretty much as fragile and "dangerous"c as they were when originally built.
Surely that must indicate that the REAL safety improvements have been in track safety features, removal of hazards from teh trackside, better safety equipment in the cars and helmets/clothing, better fire prevention and better trained marshalls.
The cars themselves are pretty much as fragile and "dangerous"c as they were when originally built.
Eric Mc said:
What is interesting is that many of the cars from that era continue to be raced quite hard today - and they occasionally crash - sometimes very heavilly. Yet we are not seeing the levels of fatalities we saw back then.
Surely that must indicate that the REAL safety improvements have been in track safety features, removal of hazards from teh trackside, better safety equipment in the cars and helmets/clothing, better fire prevention and better trained marshalls.
The cars themselves are pretty much as fragile and "dangerous"c as they were when originally built.
Well there's an interesting point.Surely that must indicate that the REAL safety improvements have been in track safety features, removal of hazards from teh trackside, better safety equipment in the cars and helmets/clothing, better fire prevention and better trained marshalls.
The cars themselves are pretty much as fragile and "dangerous"c as they were when originally built.
One of the 1960's Lotus Mechanics recently said that any ally monocoque in original condition from the period is not safe and that it wasn't safe back then.
Apparently rivets and glue have come on a lot since then and the sheet metal used in repairs/reskinning is far better.
It'll be an interesting argument if 72 R2 ever sees the light of day again.
It just dawned on me while I was thinking of the years 1970 to 73 (which were particularly awful) and I was wondering why these self same cars aren't killing as many drivers as they did back then.
Were drivers more aggressive and reckless back then?
Did they drive with more conviction than their current (mostly amateur) owner/drivers?
Did drivers of that era have a more fatalistic atitude to their proferssion?
Or was it just that the environment in which they drove was just a lot more dangerous than it is today?
Were drivers more aggressive and reckless back then?
Did they drive with more conviction than their current (mostly amateur) owner/drivers?
Did drivers of that era have a more fatalistic atitude to their proferssion?
Or was it just that the environment in which they drove was just a lot more dangerous than it is today?
I'd argue it could be a combination of all of your points, Eric.
- There were more things to hit in the 1970s and they were generally much closer to you.
- The overall level of car preparation was probably lower.
- The races were longer so vehicles were necessarily more likely to break.
- The drivers were the fastest in the world and competing for a World Championship - unlike today's historic racers - who do it for fun.
- Driver attitudes to safety and their own mortality were different then - just look at the treatment of JYS in period.
- Safety clothing was considerably less safe. Harnesses too.
- Marshalling and medical care at the circuits was haphazard. I'd cite Roger Williamson's death as a case in point.
- I also suspect fire is much less of a concern these days. I'd need to consult an expert but I presume most historic racers don't run with their original fuel tanks?
- There were more things to hit in the 1970s and they were generally much closer to you.
- The overall level of car preparation was probably lower.
- The races were longer so vehicles were necessarily more likely to break.
- The drivers were the fastest in the world and competing for a World Championship - unlike today's historic racers - who do it for fun.
- Driver attitudes to safety and their own mortality were different then - just look at the treatment of JYS in period.
- Safety clothing was considerably less safe. Harnesses too.
- Marshalling and medical care at the circuits was haphazard. I'd cite Roger Williamson's death as a case in point.
- I also suspect fire is much less of a concern these days. I'd need to consult an expert but I presume most historic racers don't run with their original fuel tanks?
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