Prince2 v MSP

[StuStu]

I have been managing projects and programmes for many years and was trained in Summit Ascendant (IBMs version of Prince2) back in the early noughties.

I giving up the monotony of salary and heading out into the world of freelance contracting and feel I ought to brush up on my accreditations.
So the choice is:
Prince2 (been using it for years, a bit nave, possibly outdated but seems to be the default ask for employers)
MSP (More useful to me, more up to date, less requested by employers)

For clarity, I appreciate the two are different beasts and I am not looking to debate the merits of the two approaches, just the perceived value of the accreditation in the marketplace

Your thoughts/opinions?

Edited by StuStu on Thursday 15th March 13:12

[bigandclever]

Fom itjobswatch.co.uk.... might give you a hint

3 months to March 15 2012

Prince 2
Matching contract IT job ads 2630
As % of all contract IT jobs located in the UK 4.695 %
As % of the Processes & Methodologies category 7.127 %
Number of daily rates quoted 1574
Average daily rate 413
Average daily rate % change year-on-year -2.94 %
90% of contracts offered a daily rate of more than 257
10% of contracts offered a daily rate of more than 550


MSP
Your search - MSP - did not match any results.

[StuStu]

nice

[V8mate]

MSP - Managing Successful Programmes

You're comparing a project management approach to a programme management approach. What kind of work are you proposing to be doing and will your clients be public or private sector?

[liner33]

My wife is a successful programme manager in the IT industry and she has had to have both during her career , some companies like one and others companies the other

[Cyrus1971]

Be cautious of taking statistics at face value. There are loads more Prince 2 jobs because being Project Manager (which Prince 2 is all about) is a far junior role to managing a program. Both conceptually and from a skills base. Projects are about Outputs and a Program is about an outcome and that's a big differentiator. Also life is a pyramid. There is less space at the top. Also Program's by their nature are about deep Business Change (which have some technical enablers but are by no means all about IT) and so they are often not trusted to external people (I.E Contractors) unless there is a high incapability in the organisation to deliver them well. In which case due to very senior managers tending to commission such programs and their scale and criticality they err towards the cautious and hire the skills in from the likes of any number of professional services and management consultancies. In effect you would become one of these PS or MCs but with 1 employee - and you will be competing against such people. Certifications get the door open but when I recruit it is ALWAYS the soft skills I go for because that mean a person can deliver in the current business environments I come across.

As an aside 40 years ago a project manager was an emerging role that had quite strict definition and franky meant something, same is true of programme management. The Apollo Programmes were REAL Programmes ! These days you get 22 year old vainglorious retards on the Apprentice "Project Managing" making a cake ! and they still fk it up. So IMHO the role has been de-valued. PRINCE and MSP both are UK Government sponsored methodologies and good ones on the international market too.

However depending on your career plans and the area of technology business you have skills in you should seriously look at Agile. It's the only genuinely innovative thing in our line of work for a number of years. For 5 to 10 years it has been taken pretty seriously by every telco and bank so you should look in to it's approach at the very least. It's origins in extreme programing and being a very "coding centric" approach has been lost. Now quite unlikely things are starting to use the principles of Agile - fail early, time boxing, acceptance of risk, inclusion of user rep in scrum etc etc. Agile like delivery is becoming a bit of growth area. Anyway I could waffle on all day. Good luck in the hunt.

[marcosgt]

liner33 said:

My wife is a successful programme manager in the IT industry and she has had to have both during her career , some companies like one and others companies the other

And are you a powerfully built company director?

I suppose it's nice that you're proud of her success, but that does read a bit like a Press Release to me...

Anyway, no slight intended, I'm sure she's brilliant at what she does.

M.

[liner33]

No I'm a man of leisure with a successful wife but thanks for your post

My point was badly made and much better made by Cyprus

[toby9980]

Hi Stu

Just to throw something else into the mix, how about PMP?

PRINCE and PMP can work alongside eachother, neither is spot on but more of a mixture of both. It is also pretty commonly asked for.

Other thing, what kind of software do you use to manage your projects? I am more Oracle/Primavera based but if you have knowledge in those lines and are willing to do freelance as you say ytou are, maybe become registered with a software provider and consult along with earning a few more pounds in sales/presales?

[Pulse]

I'd go for PRINCE2, personally. As someone has already said though, they are completely different, so it depends what you're after.

I reckon there's likely better out there (for example, as someone has said, PMP), but PRINCE2 is sadly asked for a lot (despite being ludicrously easy to pass).

[dsgrnmcm]

Time to flog the donkey.

Now it is 2020, what are the feelings on PM quals?

I'm looking at moving in to the construction, infrastructure and transport sector.

I have a background in Operations and project management in the maritime and defence domain, but with no qualifications. My employer has put me on a MSP course (just 2.5 days and an exam....) and I can use sponsorship to get either Agile or PMQ (Was APMP)

Any advice from you PM experts would be greatly received!

[V8mate]

Really tough to get into construction and infrastructure project management without being a qualified surveyor, especially quantity surveying. They've just got that sector sewn-up, so it becomes the default requirement. Probably why so many construction projects go awry

By transport, if you mean roads, then the above will apply, though more often they want a qualified civil engineer as PM.

Network Rail is more meritocratic, so could be an option though?

[CoupeKid]

I did PRINCE2, Foundation and Practitioner, at evening classes. I've never managed a project before or since, which should tell you something. I wanted a new job and saw that lots of job ads asked for PRINCE2 so I had to get it to put it on my CV. I was in something IT related at the time.

Friend of mine was a real project manager in Civil Engineering / Facilities Management. He looked into PRINCE2 and was very dismissive of it compared to PMP (or whatever it is called now).

So I guess what it comes down to is what are job ads looking for and that probably depends on which industry you work in.

My issue with PRINCE2 is that it doesn't take resources (financial or manpower) into account. It came out of government so the answer to running out of resources is to go to your project sponsor and ask for more (my memory is a bit hazy; there might be more to it), which is great if you have unlimited resources. Most private sector organisations don't.

And as for Agile.... I've seen Agile evangelists try to push it outside of IT development but I'd like to see someone design and build a ship or bridge that way.

[Rev Limit]

Most definitely Prince2.

I’ve been a PM (IT Infra) for around 6 years, worked for a few firms in that time and have only ever been asked if I had Prince2.

[Rev Limit]

CoupeKid said:

And as for Agile.... I've seen Agile evangelists try to push it outside of IT development but I'd like to see someone design and build a ship or bridge that way.

I’ve never seen Agile applied to anything outside of web/software Dev. I struggle to believe you could run an infrastructure project using Agile?!

[VR99]

I work in finance and much of the work is project/program based usually of a regulatory nature.
I did PRINCE2 many years back while going through a a period of unemployment...wanted to improve my profile so paid up and did an intense course etc The irony is I never actually used it and probably need a refresher lol So that's not to say it doesn't have its merits and certainly is useful but I guess it depends on your job role etc If paying for the course out of your own pocket think carefully first whether it be of any use to you...it looks good on the CV I guess. I eventually got back into work albeit not I'm a role that used much proj mgnt but times have changed now.

Edited by VR99 on Thursday 19th March 12:29