Engineered, or just lucky?

[mike9009]

Hi

Why are some cars considered great drivers cars ( integra, 205, etc, just for example) and other 'sporty' cars simply miss the mark?

Surely there must be a formula to create excellent handling characteristics and what 'pistonheads' look for in a car? Yet, why do some manufacturers or models miss the mark so widely (206, for example).

Is this down to economics, compromising other features or luck?

As an engineer not involved in car design, why the hit or miss approach?


(or have I completely missed something?)

Mike

[interloper]

I think some of this is down to the relationship between the test drivers and engineers at a company. The difference between a good drivers car and a dull one can be down to fairly subtle differences in set up. The next stage is whether the manufacturer follows the findings that the engineers and test drivers come up with or make further changes and screw things up!

[Condi]

mike9009 said:

Surely there must be a formula to create excellent handling characteristics and what 'pistonheads' look for in a car?

(or have I completely missed something?)

Not everyone is a 'pistonhead' and some people look for other things in a car?

[GarryA]

Fanboi-ism.

[fozzymandeus]

I recall editorial suggesting that Audis, for example, are specifically engineered towards inert, benign handling characteristics that some people might find... dull. Allegedly this is what the customer wants, which I suppose is plausible.

Other marques may want to engineer cars that are forgiving in the handling department to stop drivers losing control and binning them. I've lost count of the number of comments people have made about 1980s BMWs being "treacherous in the wet" etc.

Is it possible for one moment that manufacturers do not like this kind of press? Whilst it might seem romantic to a certain type of "enthusiast" demographic ("Look at me in my testosterone-fuelled knife-edge widowmaker"), perhaps to most people (or those that are aware at least) it might just seem like a turn-off.

It's all intended, and it's all part of the brand identity IMO.

[mike9009]

GarryA said:

Fanboi-ism.

Sorry?

[EDLT]

What I want to know is how cars that were considered a bit dull when they were new have become ultimate driving machines as time goes on. The Volvo 340, for example.

[TameRacingDriver]

To comment on your particular examples:-

205 GTI - What were the alternatives at the time? It was light, punchy engine, great steering feel, in a car with a fundamentally decent chassis. A car made by driving enthusiasts, for driving enthusiasts.

Integra Type-R - Back in 1995, when it was first released in Japan, we had a bespoke high revving engine, torsen diff in a FWD (rare back then), double wishbone suspension all round, bracing all round, etc etc. A car made by driving enthusiasts, for driving enthusiasts.

206 GTI - Based on a mediocre, mass market hatchback, just with slightly better suspension, and a slightly more powerful engine. Cashing in on its past credentials (205 GTI). A car made by accountants, for driving enthusiasts. It didn't work.

[Robb F]

mike9009 said:

GarryA said:

Fanboi-ism.

Sorry?

He's suggesting the cars aren't good at all, just that people want to like them as they are fans of that brand or whatever.

Although according to this theory, there are no good cars, only ones that 'fanbois' like

[GarryA]

mike9009 said:

Sorry?

When people start wnaking over a certain model and everyone jumps on the bandwagon even though 90% of them have never driven the model concerned they will all say how great it is. A bad word against the car is shot down and rubbished immediately.

E30 M3 is a prime example.

Emotion / mind games play a large role imho.

[v8will]

Sometimes things happen by luck, look at the original 1959 Mini for example.

[deeen]

Robb F said:

mike9009 said:

GarryA said:

Fanboi-ism.

Sorry?

He's suggesting the cars aren't good at all, just that people want to like them as they are fans of that brand or whatever.

Although according to this theory, there are no good cars, only ones that 'fanbois' like

That's nonsense. If you drive them blindfolded, you can quite clearly tell the difference.

Even if only briefly.

[Special K]

v8will said:

Sometimes things happen by luck, look at the original 1959 Mini for example.

Not sure that was really by luck though ....

[Robb F]

GarryA said:

mike9009 said:

Sorry?

When people start wnaking over a certain model and everyone jumps on the bandwagon even though 90% of them have never driven the model concerned they will all say how great it is. A bad word against the car is shot down and rubbished immediately.

E30 M3 is a prime example.

Emotion / mind games play a large role imho.

Well people don't talk about them being good by accident. Its because they're good.

[s m]

EDLT said:

What I want to know is how cars that were considered a bit dull when they were new have become ultimate driving machines as time goes on. The Volvo 340, for example.

I'd like to know that one for sure

Joking aside, I think the car has to have a certain something, might not necessarily be best in class or fastest etc.... just to capture the imagination - a few well-written articles reviving interest always helps