How many 'affordable' lightweights ??

[lou556]

So, here I am, wondering just how many truly affordable lightweights there actually exist, that you could live with daily?

I suppose in the world of near as makes no difference 2000kg saloon cars, that the definition of lightweight has changed somewhat. So, for all intensive purposes I shall define lightweight as around the 1000kg mark.

Here are my thoughts so far;

MR2 MK3
MX5 MK1/2
106 GTI
Panda 100hp
SportKa
Ignis Sport
Yaris T-Sport
Lupo GTI
Fiesta Zetec S Mk5
Swift Sport
Barchetta
Clio Sport 172/Cup
206 GTi

Better steering feel, body control, performance, economy these are all advantages of less weight, plus trackday's will not be as hard on the components hence you could stay on track longer!!

It's good to see manufactures losing weight from their cars as a response to the rise in motoring costs, but wouldn't it be great if the likes of the M GmbH, Ford RS, Quattro GmbH, Renault Sport etc... could find a way to lose that extra weight they have put on over the years, and really get back to what made them great in the first place.

Lew

[crofty1984]

I've not traditionally been a french car fan, I just got rid of a 2001 Clio (a pretty nice and modern car for me) because it was st. I've had it's replacement, a 205 NA diesel in white for two days and honestly I think it's brilliant. One day I'll have an Mi16 one, but for now finances don't allow.

So I'll just plod along in my angular french tin box with the radio tuned into my phone's FM transmitter for now and enjoy 60 mpg and a characterful wee car.

[Addymk2]

Toyota Starlet GT Turbo/Glanza

I'm going to live with one for a while longer!

I'm tempted by that one! (Prepares to be flamed as a chav)

[twazzock]

Depends on what you can tolerate day to day and if you can do a bit of fiddling yourself. Older cars are a bit more work but often so much lighter and less complex.

+1 on the 205 anyway. I've got an XS which is peppy enough for its 85bhp. GTis are obviously quicker. Also consider the AX GT which has the same engine as the XS but is even lighter. Easy enough to drive daily, just not amazing on motorways.

I've had a Cinquecento Sporting too which is similar. Except slower, hilariously rolly and even tinnier I think. Also the 106 Rallye. My one was an utter shed but they are great cars.

Mk2 Scirocco, E30s (a bit over a ton but light compared to modern 3 series), classic Mini, Reliant SS1, 306 Rallye, Mk1 MR2.

[lou556]

Addymk2 said:

Toyota Starlet GT Turbo/Glanza

I'm going to live with one for a while longer!

I'm tempted by that one! (Prepares to be flamed as a chav)

Good example there buddy.

The starlet certainly falls into the lightweight category. Alas, it doesn't give the thrill of driving, it doesn't impress in standard form. I was thinking more along the lines of cars that are lightweight and deliver driving thrills out of the box, with a everyday usability about them e.g Panda 100hp.

I did however, have quite a wild ride in a modified 250bhp+ starlet around the ring, it had standard brakes with up-rated pads, so was quite hairy in places!! Would be great if Toyota were to produce a modern day Starlet; it could be Aygo size with a 1.4 4cyl DFI Turbo engine, independent suspension, hydraulic steering and a sub 1000kg kerb wieght. Actually this http://www.c1gti.co.uk/ gets quite close, it's just a tad pricey and a little unsophisticated.

[twazzock]

Mk1 or 2 Golf GTI. Corrado is apparently 1100ish kg.

Polo G40. Rover 200 BRM (and the similar MGs). MG Metro or Rover 114 GTA (or the Talon conversions with the 1.8 VVC)

I'm on a roll here, is this the sort of stuff you're thinking of or not refined enough for daily use?

[lou556]

twazzock said:

Depends on what you can tolerate day to day and if you can do a bit of fiddling yourself. Older cars are a bit more work but often so much lighter and less complex.

My definition of 'usability' is rather suited to the modern petrol head, with no need for practicality in the way of a big boot
The car must be 'modern' in the sense that it is easy to service (i.e no hunting Ebay for parts) and would protect reasonably well in a impact. The last one is a requirement based on the weight other cars have put on, and the potential damage they could cause in a impact with any 'classic' lightweight.

[lou556]

twazzock said:

Mk1 or 2 Golf GTI. Corrado is apparently 1100ish kg.

Polo G40. Rover 200 BRM (and the similar MGs). MG Metro or Rover 114 GTA (or the Talon conversions with the 1.8 VVC)

I'm on a roll here, is this the sort of stuff you're thinking of or not refined enough for daily use?

Hey,
Great ideas. Lack of refinement a small price to pay for driving enjoyment. If you check out my last post you will see why the likes of the Metro and Polo don't meet the mark.

I think many people will start to go down the lightweight route, the price of motoring is going up, this does not mean driving thrills are lost yet!! We just need to appreciate that numbers aren't everything and that adding lightness can go a long way to delivering the thrill of driving!

[HustleRussell]

Satria GTI?

[twazzock]

Alfa 145/146. Clio Williams or RSi. Older Honda Civics and CRXs. Saxo VTS/VTR. Suzuki Swift GTI. Renault 5 GT Turbo.

There's quite a lot out there really but obviously the numbers dwindle rapidly if crash protection is an issue. So far I've only had these sorts of cars (small/oldish/light) and currently feel no urge for anything bigger or heavier! There's a lot of fun to be had with minimal weight and modern cars would appeal to me a lot more if they were lighter. I agree, hopefully in the future we'll have cars that are as light as before as well as very safe in a crash.

[Addymk2]

HustleRussell said:

Satria GTI?

Very good shout! Massively underrated little cars. The misses has one, I love the thing!

twazzock said:

Alfa 145/146. Clio Williams or RSi. Older Honda Civics and CRXs. Saxo VTS/VTR. Suzuki Swift GTI. Renault 5 GT Turbo.

There's quite a lot out there really but obviously the numbers dwindle rapidly if crash protection is an issue. So far I've only had these sorts of cars (small/oldish/light) and currently feel no urge for anything bigger or heavier! There's a lot of fun to be had with minimal weight and modern cars would appeal to me a lot more if they were lighter. I agree, hopefully in the future we'll have cars that are as light as before as well as very safe in a crash.

Another good shout, I miss my old 145 Cloverleaf.

[Motorrad]

An unmessed up Saxo VTS.

Unfashionable I know but undeniably relatively lightweight and fun

[Vladimir]

Motorrad said:

An unmessed up Saxo VTS.

Unfashionable I know but undeniably relatively lightweight and fun

Agreed. I had the lesser VTR (because I was young, naive and stupid enough to think "free insurance" was useful) and even that was an absolute hoot.

Also our boat - 60bhp, a third of a tonne. Looks like a Dory, goes like the clappers.

[Carpal]

twazzock said:

Mk1 or 2 Golf GTI. Corrado is apparently 1100ish kg.

Polo G40. Rover 200 BRM (and the similar MGs). MG Metro or Rover 114 GTA (or the Talon conversions with the 1.8 VVC)

I'm on a roll here, is this the sort of stuff you're thinking of or not refined enough for daily use?

My (standard) mk3 Golf GTi only weighed 1050 Kg and had 150bhp

[dave stew]

I've never driven one, but quite fancy a Panda 100HP.

[vrooom]

Problem is, most of them are FWD... we at PH tower want RWD!

[intrepid44]

lou556 said:

Addymk2 said:

Toyota Starlet GT Turbo/Glanza

I'm going to live with one for a while longer!

I'm tempted by that one! (Prepares to be flamed as a chav)

Good example there buddy.

The starlet certainly falls into the lightweight category. Alas, it doesn't give the thrill of driving, it doesn't impress in standard form. I was thinking more along the lines of cars that are lightweight and deliver driving thrills out of the box, with a everyday usability about them e.g Panda 100hp.

I did however, have quite a wild ride in a modified 250bhp+ starlet around the ring, it had standard brakes with up-rated pads, so was quite hairy in places!! Would be great if Toyota were to produce a modern day Starlet; it could be Aygo size with a 1.4 4cyl DFI Turbo engine, independent suspension, hydraulic steering and a sub 1000kg kerb wieght. Actually this http://www.c1gti.co.uk/ gets quite close, it's just a tad pricey and a little unsophisticated.

Yep the handling on a Starlet isn't exactly what I would describe as being good, mine's starting to get there but still have some more bits to buy.

The 214 bhp engine in mine sort of makes up for it though, even though it currently has the standard brakes, and I don't think you could describe them as even being adequate on the standard Glanza V!

[moribund]

RWD? The Smart Roadster is around 800kg and makes the most of its wee engine in the back. I managed 20k miles in a year and 500 miles in a day coming back from Le Mans with a short kip on the ferry. Quite practical in coupe form too.

I can only get it sideways on gravel or a very wet road though.

The post above about less wear is spot on. The Smart does 30k miles on a set of tyres. Trackdays seem to make no impact at all on brakes and tyres. Virtuous circle!

Was shocked to realise that it's no lighter than a 205GTI with 4 seats and a decent boot, but I know which would be safer in a crash :-)

Edited by moribund on Monday 26th March 21:37

[intrepid44]

Carpal said:

twazzock said:

Mk1 or 2 Golf GTI. Corrado is apparently 1100ish kg.

Polo G40. Rover 200 BRM (and the similar MGs). MG Metro or Rover 114 GTA (or the Talon conversions with the 1.8 VVC)

I'm on a roll here, is this the sort of stuff you're thinking of or not refined enough for daily use?

My (standard) mk3 Golf GTi only weighed 1050 Kg and had 150bhp

I thought the Mk3 was more around the 1080 Kg mark, but it is a fair bit stiffer chassis than the Mk2, which probably makes up for the extra weight.

[kambites]

moribund said:

RWD? The Smart Roadster is around 800kg and makes the most of its wee engine in the back.

So is the ForTwo.