'87 Land Rover 90 with 5.9l 12v Cummins 6BT
Discussion
Heres a copy (and update) of the write up i did on LandyZone as some people were interested in my Cummins engined 90:
15miles into the Harper 4x4 trip to Bala my recon injection pump failed, leaving me and my cousin at the side of the road as the rest of the convoy continued on. This coupled with the turbos and heads i demolished in the search for power from a Disco 200TDi engine lead me to search for something abit more durable and bigger.
I saw a 110 6bt hicap on youtube and researched the conversion. I found a common belief in people that had done the conversion that the ZF S5-42 gearbox that comes with the Cummins (from a Daf 45) couldnt be close coupled with a lt230 transfer box and that even it could it would leave a stupidly small rear prop.
A few days later i found myself flying up the motorway in the van with engine and box firmly strapped to the back determined to make it fit into a 90.
When we got it into the workshop we measured up the situation. theres roughly 59" from the front x-member to the transfer box input seal, and the engine and box were 63" from the front pulley to the end of the geabox casing so something had to give.
We first weighed up moving the rad and the front x-member forward, and on hindsight im glad that strength worrys prevented us doing so. This meant we would end up moving the transfer box back 5" and down 1" to mate with the truck engine and box.
Other issues with this conversion are:
Mounting the engine
Connecting the two boxes together
Selecting gears
Converting to 12v
Supplying Vacuum for the Brakes
Air assist clutch
PAS pump puts out twice the flow and pressure of a LR one
Bottom water pipe is pointing downwards so plumbing is impossible
I mounted the engine using 200tdi Defender mounts believe it or not! I redrilled the long drivers side mount top hole, fitted a new rubber and bolted it on. for the drivers side the mount needed to be custom made but its very close to the land rover one. The hole needed to be 10mm further away from the block and 1" back from the block holes. For this i used a lifelong friend of my mothers who is a fabricator as i wanted it to be right and he does beautiful metalwork. Where the transfer box is now mounted has given me prop lengths of 800mm on the front and 545mm on the rear.
To connect the two gearboxes i got a FTC5090 input shaft from Ashcrofts and took it, along with the prop flange off the ZF S5-42 to my mate who runs Metcalfe Engineering. He machined them both and pressed them together with 10ton of force and welded them up into an impressive and well made adaptor shaft. This fitted like a glove and alowed us to make the brackets to brace the gearboxes together and to hold the transfer box to the chassis on the original front output mount.
Making a gear linkage set up to allow me to select gears caused much of a headache. Using parts from the DAF 45 shifter would of meant having a custom tunnel and a gearlever next to the handbrake so we had to think of another way as i wasnt paying silly money for a shifter from a dodge stateside. The solution was to extend the ball of the LT77 downwards and have it bolted to an adapter plate. This has worked well though the narrow gate might not be to everyones taste it will be a godsend for the middle passenger! Just need an R380 tunnel now.
The conversion to 12V was relatively easy. I part-exchanged the 24v starter for a new 12v one off a non-turbo DAF 45, however this needs to be spaced from the bellhousing by 1cm to prevent it being in constant mesh. I did this with washers for the time being but i will get a plate made up eventually. The other part of the conversion is the alternator. For this i used a LRB 381 Transit alternator with the vacuum pump on the rear to work my brakes. The cheapest i found was at Manchester Auto Electrics.
The air assist clutch requires on-board air, so i piped up the compressor on the engine to a D2 limiter valve (makes the compressor blow off at the desired pressure) and i piped the air clutch to the air tank and its nice n light (though currently suffering leak back so you have to be quick). It also needed a series 2/3 109 brake master cylinder (non servo) as its a 1" bore similar to the Daf 45 clutch master. I found the reserviour for the clutch at demon tweeks which is neat and does the job well.
For the PAS i originally fitted a hydraulic flow limiter with 3/4BSP connectors (the 1/2BSP would work fine and be cheaper) this splits the pressure and flow so the PAS box doesnt blow a seal (though i need to turn it up as its abit heavy at the mo). I later found out that it could be piped up directly so i removed the flow limiter. I also found out that with the new found pressure that the compression fitting holding the hose onto the input pipe on the PAS box wasnt good enough so i had the compression fitting welded to the pipe and it works well.
The bottom water pipe i had made up by my local custom exhaust manufacturer JP Exhausts (who also built the stack) and as per usual they did a cracking job.
Id like to thank my cousin Sam as he was a great help in getting this done (does help his hands and arms are half the size of mine) and Richard Metcalfe for making the connector shaft when everyone else said they couldnt!
So thats how a silly sized engine is squeezed into a 90!
its now running a 160hp Bosch VE pump, 40hp fuel pin and an ERF EC6 turbo (HX35?)
Axles been upgraded with Kam/Multidrive internals and ARB Lockers!
Hope you enjoyed the read
Heres some Links:
www.youtube.com/user/NRS91
www.photobucket.com/LR90Cummins6BT
www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.336363150384.333...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_rqizXl6CA
Thanks
Nick
15miles into the Harper 4x4 trip to Bala my recon injection pump failed, leaving me and my cousin at the side of the road as the rest of the convoy continued on. This coupled with the turbos and heads i demolished in the search for power from a Disco 200TDi engine lead me to search for something abit more durable and bigger.
I saw a 110 6bt hicap on youtube and researched the conversion. I found a common belief in people that had done the conversion that the ZF S5-42 gearbox that comes with the Cummins (from a Daf 45) couldnt be close coupled with a lt230 transfer box and that even it could it would leave a stupidly small rear prop.
A few days later i found myself flying up the motorway in the van with engine and box firmly strapped to the back determined to make it fit into a 90.
When we got it into the workshop we measured up the situation. theres roughly 59" from the front x-member to the transfer box input seal, and the engine and box were 63" from the front pulley to the end of the geabox casing so something had to give.
We first weighed up moving the rad and the front x-member forward, and on hindsight im glad that strength worrys prevented us doing so. This meant we would end up moving the transfer box back 5" and down 1" to mate with the truck engine and box.
Other issues with this conversion are:
Mounting the engine
Connecting the two boxes together
Selecting gears
Converting to 12v
Supplying Vacuum for the Brakes
Air assist clutch
PAS pump puts out twice the flow and pressure of a LR one
Bottom water pipe is pointing downwards so plumbing is impossible
I mounted the engine using 200tdi Defender mounts believe it or not! I redrilled the long drivers side mount top hole, fitted a new rubber and bolted it on. for the drivers side the mount needed to be custom made but its very close to the land rover one. The hole needed to be 10mm further away from the block and 1" back from the block holes. For this i used a lifelong friend of my mothers who is a fabricator as i wanted it to be right and he does beautiful metalwork. Where the transfer box is now mounted has given me prop lengths of 800mm on the front and 545mm on the rear.
To connect the two gearboxes i got a FTC5090 input shaft from Ashcrofts and took it, along with the prop flange off the ZF S5-42 to my mate who runs Metcalfe Engineering. He machined them both and pressed them together with 10ton of force and welded them up into an impressive and well made adaptor shaft. This fitted like a glove and alowed us to make the brackets to brace the gearboxes together and to hold the transfer box to the chassis on the original front output mount.
Making a gear linkage set up to allow me to select gears caused much of a headache. Using parts from the DAF 45 shifter would of meant having a custom tunnel and a gearlever next to the handbrake so we had to think of another way as i wasnt paying silly money for a shifter from a dodge stateside. The solution was to extend the ball of the LT77 downwards and have it bolted to an adapter plate. This has worked well though the narrow gate might not be to everyones taste it will be a godsend for the middle passenger! Just need an R380 tunnel now.
The conversion to 12V was relatively easy. I part-exchanged the 24v starter for a new 12v one off a non-turbo DAF 45, however this needs to be spaced from the bellhousing by 1cm to prevent it being in constant mesh. I did this with washers for the time being but i will get a plate made up eventually. The other part of the conversion is the alternator. For this i used a LRB 381 Transit alternator with the vacuum pump on the rear to work my brakes. The cheapest i found was at Manchester Auto Electrics.
The air assist clutch requires on-board air, so i piped up the compressor on the engine to a D2 limiter valve (makes the compressor blow off at the desired pressure) and i piped the air clutch to the air tank and its nice n light (though currently suffering leak back so you have to be quick). It also needed a series 2/3 109 brake master cylinder (non servo) as its a 1" bore similar to the Daf 45 clutch master. I found the reserviour for the clutch at demon tweeks which is neat and does the job well.
For the PAS i originally fitted a hydraulic flow limiter with 3/4BSP connectors (the 1/2BSP would work fine and be cheaper) this splits the pressure and flow so the PAS box doesnt blow a seal (though i need to turn it up as its abit heavy at the mo). I later found out that it could be piped up directly so i removed the flow limiter. I also found out that with the new found pressure that the compression fitting holding the hose onto the input pipe on the PAS box wasnt good enough so i had the compression fitting welded to the pipe and it works well.
The bottom water pipe i had made up by my local custom exhaust manufacturer JP Exhausts (who also built the stack) and as per usual they did a cracking job.
Id like to thank my cousin Sam as he was a great help in getting this done (does help his hands and arms are half the size of mine) and Richard Metcalfe for making the connector shaft when everyone else said they couldnt!
So thats how a silly sized engine is squeezed into a 90!
its now running a 160hp Bosch VE pump, 40hp fuel pin and an ERF EC6 turbo (HX35?)
Axles been upgraded with Kam/Multidrive internals and ARB Lockers!
Hope you enjoyed the read
Heres some Links:
www.youtube.com/user/NRS91
www.photobucket.com/LR90Cummins6BT
www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.336363150384.333...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_rqizXl6CA
Thanks
Nick
king cool, gotta love Cummins engines.
thanks for the praise guys
shes already running 160hp pump, +40 fuel pin and a HX35 Turbo (off an ERF) which puts out 20psi currently so shes running a clean 215hp and 500ft/lb approx... after i get my silly tyres today (37x12.50x17) the gearing should be spot on and i will tune the pump for some dirty power :P got to have smoke trails from my stack!!
Megaflow you sound alot like my mate Brownie who loves his MF tractors... but im afraid theres nowt like a Hummin Cummins or a Growlin Gardner
shes already running 160hp pump, +40 fuel pin and a HX35 Turbo (off an ERF) which puts out 20psi currently so shes running a clean 215hp and 500ft/lb approx... after i get my silly tyres today (37x12.50x17) the gearing should be spot on and i will tune the pump for some dirty power :P got to have smoke trails from my stack!!
Megaflow you sound alot like my mate Brownie who loves his MF tractors... but im afraid theres nowt like a Hummin Cummins or a Growlin Gardner
NRS91 said:
thanks for the praise guys
shes already running 160hp pump, +40 fuel pin and a HX35 Turbo (off an ERF) which puts out 20psi currently so shes running a clean 215hp and 500ft/lb approx... after i get my silly tyres today (37x12.50x17) the gearing should be spot on and i will tune the pump for some dirty power :P got to have smoke trails from my stack!!
Megaflow you sound alot like my mate Brownie who loves his MF tractors... but im afraid theres nowt like a Hummin Cummins or a Growlin Gardner
Whats the difference detween yours and the Gen2 24v engines? Migyht be worth looking at for cheap power upgrade. Is there anyone in the UK that can mod these motors? I hear of US guys putting out over 1000bhp (probably a bit much for the landy lol) from the 12v engines!shes already running 160hp pump, +40 fuel pin and a HX35 Turbo (off an ERF) which puts out 20psi currently so shes running a clean 215hp and 500ft/lb approx... after i get my silly tyres today (37x12.50x17) the gearing should be spot on and i will tune the pump for some dirty power :P got to have smoke trails from my stack!!
Megaflow you sound alot like my mate Brownie who loves his MF tractors... but im afraid theres nowt like a Hummin Cummins or a Growlin Gardner
Chris.
the 24v is common rail and 6.3l IIRC
the 12v is easy to find over here and with the Bosch VE pump like whats fitted to mine then basic tuning is the same as a Landy TDi lump
my turbo is off a ERF EC6 and is a Holset HX35 IIRC. Its wastegated and set to 20psi which is about 215hp... it gives a good improvement and little lag tbh.
with the Bosch VE pump the most to be gotten out of it is 750hp with NOS. Thats on the stock bottom end too!!
so that might be what the future holds for my landy after ive got a galv chassis. That is when i can find axles and gearbox that would hack 1500ft/lb haha
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/dodge/1010d...
EDIT: Forgot to add that tuning parts like compound turbo set ups are easily availiable state side... if your feeling stong and have a tough bag you should book a yankie holiday
the 12v is easy to find over here and with the Bosch VE pump like whats fitted to mine then basic tuning is the same as a Landy TDi lump
my turbo is off a ERF EC6 and is a Holset HX35 IIRC. Its wastegated and set to 20psi which is about 215hp... it gives a good improvement and little lag tbh.
with the Bosch VE pump the most to be gotten out of it is 750hp with NOS. Thats on the stock bottom end too!!
so that might be what the future holds for my landy after ive got a galv chassis. That is when i can find axles and gearbox that would hack 1500ft/lb haha
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/dodge/1010d...
EDIT: Forgot to add that tuning parts like compound turbo set ups are easily availiable state side... if your feeling stong and have a tough bag you should book a yankie holiday
NRS91 said:
the 24v is common rail and 6.3l IIRC
the 12v is easy to find over here and with the Bosch VE pump like whats fitted to mine then basic tuning is the same as a Landy TDi lump
my turbo is off a ERF EC6 and is a Holset HX35 IIRC. Its wastegated and set to 20psi which is about 215hp... it gives a good improvement and little lag tbh.
with the Bosch VE pump the most to be gotten out of it is 750hp with NOS. Thats on the stock bottom end too!!
so that might be what the future holds for my landy after ive got a galv chassis. That is when i can find axles and gearbox that would hack 1500ft/lb haha
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/dodge/1010d...
EDIT: Forgot to add that tuning parts like compound turbo set ups are easily availiable state side... if your feeling stong and have a tough bag you should book a yankie holiday
Wqantd to mention Compound turboing erlier but thought better of it. Would be intresting to see a Big turbo mounted above the bonnet of the Landy! the 12v is easy to find over here and with the Bosch VE pump like whats fitted to mine then basic tuning is the same as a Landy TDi lump
my turbo is off a ERF EC6 and is a Holset HX35 IIRC. Its wastegated and set to 20psi which is about 215hp... it gives a good improvement and little lag tbh.
with the Bosch VE pump the most to be gotten out of it is 750hp with NOS. Thats on the stock bottom end too!!
so that might be what the future holds for my landy after ive got a galv chassis. That is when i can find axles and gearbox that would hack 1500ft/lb haha
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/dodge/1010d...
EDIT: Forgot to add that tuning parts like compound turbo set ups are easily availiable state side... if your feeling stong and have a tough bag you should book a yankie holiday
Must admit this deisel tuning game is really intresting. Cant believe how much power the stock stuff takes! that trck in the link is a great example.
Chris.
hey guys heres all the vids of my truck so far for those interested:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL68B82DD616B...
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL68B82DD616B...
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