Welded Cage?

[Lightningman]

Can anyone recommend someone to supply and weld a half-cage for a 964/993 track project?

[Henry Fiddleton]

Custom Cages are very good

[trackday addict]

Andy Robinson Race Cars is probably one of the best in Europe, Jon Webster at Webster Race Car Engineering also

[Nurburgsingh]

Not wanting to open the can orf worms that normally comes with cage questions but why weld only a half cage? You're more likely to have a T-boning or side on impact on track then you are to roll it... and most half cage installaions are bolt ins?

Why not do the full cage and have removeable door bars?

EMC in bham are the safety devices dealers/fitters.

[Lightningman]

Nurburgsingh said:

Not wanting to open the can orf worms that normally comes with cage questions but why weld only a half cage? You're more likely to have a T-boning or side on impact on track then you are to roll it... and most half cage installaions are bolt ins?

Why not do the full cage and have removeable door bars?

EMC in bham are the safety devices dealers/fitters.

My concern with a full cage is that I've heard horror stories when people use them for road use and get into an accident (head meeting front cage bars). Whilst I agree with your take on the track safety aspect, I want the car to be road legal and intend to drive it to and from track.

I would consider a nice bolt-in but I'm struggling a little to find a quality one. Is there a Southern distributor for Heigo or Matter?

[marky911]

Mornin',

if you decide to go for a bolt in apparently Cargraphic sell a one which is, according to the part number, actually a Heigo one. You could try Parr as I think they are Cargraphic dealers?

You need to spec a harness bar too, as it doesn't automatically come with a one.

Some info here, although not exactly thorough.

http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?/s,6,7,18,710,...

Off topic, did you ever find yourself a nice 964T? I remember you were looking for quite a while.


ETA - I think there is quite a wait for the Heigo ones mind. Last I heard was 12 weeks!!

[Lightningman]

marky911 said:

Off topic, did you ever find yourself a nice 964T? I remember you were looking for quite a while.


ETA - I think there is quite a wait for the Heigo ones mind. Last I heard was 12 weeks!!

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the link - I'll check into that.

As for the 964 3.6, I have to be honest, I gave up looking. The ones I looked at were all priced very high but poorly maintained often cosmetically and mechanically), minimal history and often suspect repairs; none seemed good value for money.

If a good example presented itself, I'd be tempted but I think people are holding onto those and it is only the over priced ropey examples that seem to be finding the light of day. I don't mind paying market value but market value + repair bills just seems stupid.

[marky911]

Yep, that pretty much sums up my 964 search over the winter. Lots of tat and the inflated prices are hard to swallow.
I didn't exactly have a limit-less budget but still. I think when you've owned a certain example a few years ago and then look to get back into one, it's hard to get your head around the modern day prices.

Your project sounds good. I was looking into a Carrera to strip out for track use, but even if I'd found a base car I was happy with, the costs would have spiralled quickly and eaten into my 964T refurb budget. Looks like I'm hot-hatching it this year as far as trackdays go.

Good luck with the project. I hope to see some pics eventually, or better still, see you out on track one day.

[Lightningman]

The problem with buying an older car is that my idea of "mint" or "good condition" is obviously considerably different to the sellers cars I looked at. When I sold my 968CS, it sold to the first person who looked at it; the exact same with another car I recently sold. Most of the 964 Turbos I looked at were described as mint but they were far from it; in the end I got tired of looking at wrongly described tat.

marky911 said:

Good luck with the project. I hope to see some pics eventually, or better still, see you out on track one day.

Absolutely. If you're ever doing Goodwood, let me know as I tend to be down there a fair bit.

[marky911]

Will do, although being up in Northumberland, I think besides crossing the channel you couldn't have chosen a further away track.

We have been down to the FOS before though, so who knows I may make the trip down at some point. I'll give you a shout if I ever am.

Off Topic
Coincedentally, the track car I'm about to buy used to get to Goodwood a bit. Ignore the chavvy title, I'm not buying it off that guy. My mate (and Porsche indy) has it now. It's just a suped up shopping car (Seat Leon) but it goes well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-pJckYOi0

Over £20k spent on mods. Whoever built it was clearly mad, but that's fine by me. It's mine for £4k next month. Cheap no hassle fun is the order of the day for this year. Fannied about with a bike-engined race car for the last couple of years but that was just too much like hard work.

Cadwell is my favourite track, although I'm yet to try Oulton which my mates reckon I will love.

Anyway, good luck with the project, bye for now.

[NJH]

Lightningman said:

Nurburgsingh said:

Not wanting to open the can orf worms that normally comes with cage questions but why weld only a half cage? You're more likely to have a T-boning or side on impact on track then you are to roll it... and most half cage installaions are bolt ins?

Why not do the full cage and have removeable door bars?

EMC in bham are the safety devices dealers/fitters.

My concern with a full cage is that I've heard horror stories when people use them for road use and get into an accident (head meeting front cage bars). Whilst I agree with your take on the track safety aspect, I want the car to be road legal and intend to drive it to and from track.

I would consider a nice bolt-in but I'm struggling a little to find a quality one. Is there a Southern distributor for Heigo or Matter?

Put the fireproof padding stuff on the cage, you need it anyway as with a helmet on, the outside of the helmet is another couple of inches closer to the cage and hence is far more likely to get cracked on that cage then your head is. Road legality isn't an issue many cars don't even have head lights fitted but are still road legal. I drove my S2 to Silverstone last autumn, took part in the 3x PCGB Championship races as an invitee then drove it home again on the Sunday. Steve Kevlin even gave me a tip which he used to do which is to put the sponsor decals on the back of the number plates so you can flip them back to front for when racing, then back to normal number plates for the drive home.

[graemel]

NJH said:

Lightningman said:

Nurburgsingh said:

Not wanting to open the can orf worms that normally comes with cage questions but why weld only a half cage? You're more likely to have a T-boning or side on impact on track then you are to roll it... and most half cage installaions are bolt ins?

Why not do the full cage and have removeable door bars?

EMC in bham are the safety devices dealers/fitters.

My concern with a full cage is that I've heard horror stories when people use them for road use and get into an accident (head meeting front cage bars). Whilst I agree with your take on the track safety aspect, I want the car to be road legal and intend to drive it to and from track.

I would consider a nice bolt-in but I'm struggling a little to find a quality one. Is there a Southern distributor for Heigo or Matter?

Put the fireproof padding stuff on the cage, you need it anyway as with a helmet on, the outside of the helmet is another couple of inches closer to the cage and hence is far more likely to get cracked on that cage then your head is. Road legality isn't an issue many cars don't even have head lights fitted but are still road legal. I drove my S2 to Silverstone last autumn, took part in the 3x PCGB Championship races as an invitee then drove it home again on the Sunday. Steve Kevlin even gave me a tip which he used to do which is to put the sponsor decals on the back of the number plates so you can flip them back to front for when racing, then back to normal number plates for the drive home.

It is a good tip. I've driven home from quite a few race meetings with the number plates still reading Pirelli

[NJH]

What happened to those days? Its just getting too serious at all levels now and totally out of proportion. A couple of ppl have asked me recently what is my goal this year, why do it? I have thought about this a lot and ultimately there is only one reason, fun! There is no other reason for taking part in club level motorsport. Anyone doing it for pathetic ego reasons needs a blooming good slap. Personally I would start by banning list 1B tyres and get everyone back on a hard wearing road tyre, a bit like they do in the MX-5s.

Sorry for the OT, but this whole thing about cages touches on another point for me which is that you have race cars and road cars. You can drive either type on track days. Entirely MHO of course but as it happens this is how I got into racing in the first place, decided that I needed to make an out and out track car rather than something half baked, then thought hang on I've got a race car here I might as well race it!

[Lightningman]

NJH said:

Sorry for the OT, but this whole thing about cages touches on another point for me which is that you have race cars and road cars. You can drive either type on track days. Entirely MHO of course but as it happens this is how I got into racing in the first place, decided that I needed to make an out and out track car rather than something half baked, then thought hang on I've got a race car here I might as well race it!

NJH, for my part, I just don't want the hassle of a trailer, towing the track car, etc. In an ideal world, that would be a great route to go but practicality means I need a good halfway house.

[NJH]

You certainly don't have to trailer cars that is more a preference thing. I would prefer to always use a trailer but I don't have anywhere secure to keep one so its a PITA for me using rental trailers. Track wheels/tyres depends on the model I guess, in the front engined cars there is enough space to stuff in a set of wheels and some tools/top up oil etc.

I can't remember his name but there is a guy with a really nice silver 964 I spotted at one of the Goldtrack days at Silverstone last year. I believe he was selling it to go racing but ISTR that car was near enough a full on track car and I remember seeing him driving it home down the M40.

[marky911]

^^^ Sounds like Lee.

This one?

http://www.cagedcar.com/Gallery/Gallery.html

Probably one of the best 964s out there. Owned by another guy on here now.


Another member of the "Trailers are a right royal PITA" club here. Never again if I can help it.

[Lightningman]

NJH said:

decided that I needed to make an out and out track car rather than something half baked, then thought hang on I've got a race car here I might as well race it!

Guess I got the wrong end of the stick and assumed this meant you were in favour of a proper non-road legal track/race car. I don't want to drive my road car on track (too much of a risk) but like the idea of proper road legal track biased car (hence the cage question).

[NJH]

That definitely looks like the 964 I spotted, stunningly nice car and well driven too.

OP the thing is what is the difference between a road legal but purpose built tin top race car and a non-road legal one? I can tell you looking at mine its only difference to the other EMC built S2 and 968 race cars is a horn, side turn indicators and window washers. I now have a proper LSD rebuilt gearbox courtesy of Baz Hart and rebuilt front GAZ struts so no excuses left on the car front, lol. The road legal stuff weighs practically nothing, simple example stuff like for the horn I have a Momo with the little button push in the middle. Washer bottle is one of the little rally car ones. I even kept the electric windows on mine as we found the difference in weight is just not worth bothering with. Half the battle is getting it all working together well as a complete car anyway rather than having all the 'right' bits.

[graemel]

NJH said:

What happened to those days? Its just getting too serious at all levels now and totally out of proportion.

Yes I know full well what you mean. When I first started out I used to drive my first 3.2 SSE with the missus to every race. Including Zandvoort in Holland. But the race team carried the spare wheels and spannered the car at the circuit. It was this way for about two years. After I broke the gearbox at Oulton Park and waited 5 hours for the RAC to recover me and the car I started renting a trailer and used my works van for hauling the spare wheels etc in. When I raced at Zandvoort in 1996 we kipped in the back of the van and luckily the facilities at the circuit were excellent. I was not going to race at Zandvoort due to lack of funds but I was leading the championship so it had to be done.
Fast forward a bit, I have done other stuff which was arrive and drive, only 911's though. So now I have come full circle and have my own purpose built 3.2 SSE. A road legal race car. Full cage by custom cages. Plenty of roll bar padding. No knee breaker dash bar. It still retains its electric windows as you say there is no huge weight saving. Radio with CD not that I ever listened to it. Centre console which is a must for slinging my phone and ciggies in. Hope to actually race it this year. You only forgot one thing. The adrenalin rush or buzz that you only get from racing. The best drug in the world.
A mate said to me years ago, this really is better than sex isn't it ?. I said absolutely. If I get to come first the missus still cudles and kisses me