lug bolts vs lug nuts
Discussion
pistonpie said:
I won't go into too much detail, but I have a Toyota at present, and would like to put some wheels from another model of Toyota onto it. The offset and bore size is correct, but the problem is that my car uses bolts whereas the new wheels use lug nuts..is there any way around this (safely of course) I know this'll be a stupid question, but would the old bolts work through the new wheels? I'm guessing not 
Cheers
Need more details - assuming the PCD is the same (Toyotas use 4x100, 4x114.3, 5x100 and 5x114.3 depending on age and load) you just need to measure the cone angle (if tapered) or plain shank diameter (if the flat washer type) of the nuts/bolts to check they are the same, and then measure the thickness of the wheel from mounting face to either the cone or the flat bolting face depending on fastener type so you know you have enough thread engagement. CheersThen as long as the new wheels have tool clearance for the socket for the old bolts you are away.
Job done.
Edit to add: even if they aren't the same kind of bolt/nut face and if the thread engagement is all wrong, you can still bolt them on, you'll just need to engineer the right bolts.
Edited by Captain Muppet on Wednesday 28th March 16:57
Thanks for the e-mail - I can't reply to it, but those should fit straight on.
The only tricky bit is getting the bolts to match the nuts - if both wheels have a taper under where each nut does up then you need to check that taper is the same for each wheel (60 degrees is very common, but some OE alloys use a weird spherical face which looks like a taper and works until the wheels fall off - thanks Honda, you b
ds).
If there is no taper (and my old MR2 wheels were like this) there will be a flat face that the nut/bolt sits on when it's done up. In this case it's nice and simple - just try fitting a bolt and if it isn't too big then it should be fine.
To get the thread engagement right - take off one of you current wheels and push a bolt through it like it was done up. Measure how far the thread sticks out on the other side (it should be something of the order of half an inch or more). Then push the bolt through your new wheels and see if it sticks out more of less. If it's more you should be OK (unless it's so long it fouls on something in the hub - but if the wheel turns it's probably fine), if it's less by more than a mm or so then you might need longer bolts.
If you aren't happy checking this sort of stuff then any friendly garage should be happy to help - worst case is that they charge you for a new set of bolts (which should be less than a quid each) plus half an hour of head scratching and wheel fitting.
Alternatively if you are in Norfolk I'd be happy to do check it all out for you - I had 40 spare wheels for my MX5 at one point, none of which were Mazda wheels, so I've done this sort of thing loads of times.
Edit to add: if doogz is right all you need to do is check the length of the thread that sticks through the wheel - unless that is drastically different you should be fine. Sorry for the long reply
The only tricky bit is getting the bolts to match the nuts - if both wheels have a taper under where each nut does up then you need to check that taper is the same for each wheel (60 degrees is very common, but some OE alloys use a weird spherical face which looks like a taper and works until the wheels fall off - thanks Honda, you b
ds).If there is no taper (and my old MR2 wheels were like this) there will be a flat face that the nut/bolt sits on when it's done up. In this case it's nice and simple - just try fitting a bolt and if it isn't too big then it should be fine.
To get the thread engagement right - take off one of you current wheels and push a bolt through it like it was done up. Measure how far the thread sticks out on the other side (it should be something of the order of half an inch or more). Then push the bolt through your new wheels and see if it sticks out more of less. If it's more you should be OK (unless it's so long it fouls on something in the hub - but if the wheel turns it's probably fine), if it's less by more than a mm or so then you might need longer bolts.
If you aren't happy checking this sort of stuff then any friendly garage should be happy to help - worst case is that they charge you for a new set of bolts (which should be less than a quid each) plus half an hour of head scratching and wheel fitting.
Alternatively if you are in Norfolk I'd be happy to do check it all out for you - I had 40 spare wheels for my MX5 at one point, none of which were Mazda wheels, so I've done this sort of thing loads of times.
Edit to add: if doogz is right all you need to do is check the length of the thread that sticks through the wheel - unless that is drastically different you should be fine. Sorry for the long reply
Edited by Captain Muppet on Wednesday 28th March 17:22
Thanks for the mail, I can't reply to it from here though.
As for the extra 1.5 inchers - if your current wheels are 0.75 inches clear of the suspension on the inside of the wheel, and 0.75 inches clear of the bodywork on the outside, then they should fit. Check clearances on full steering lock both ways, and don't forget the wheel moves up and down a lot - so check clearances above the wheel.
pistonpie said:
Hi again, i've found another set of wheels (from a Mazda this time) - they're exactly the same size, have a 60 degree taper like my current wheels but they've 1.5 inches wider than my current wheels. Would I need to buy new bolts to fit? Or would the current bolts still work? Thank you once again
Unfortunately there is no way of telling if you need new bolts without trying to fit them with the bolts you have. Once you have the wheels in front of you this sort of thing gets much easier. Worst case is you have to buy new ones for a quid each.As for the extra 1.5 inchers - if your current wheels are 0.75 inches clear of the suspension on the inside of the wheel, and 0.75 inches clear of the bodywork on the outside, then they should fit. Check clearances on full steering lock both ways, and don't forget the wheel moves up and down a lot - so check clearances above the wheel.
Captain Muppet said:
Thanks for the e-mail - I can't reply to it, but those should fit straight on.
The only tricky bit is getting the bolts to match the nuts - if both wheels have a taper under where each nut does up then you need to check that taper is the same for each wheel (60 degrees is very common, but some OE alloys use a weird spherical face which looks like a taper and works until the wheels fall off - thanks Honda, you bds).
If there is no taper (and my old MR2 wheels were like this) there will be a flat face that the nut/bolt sits on when it's done up. In this case it's nice and simple - just try fitting a bolt and if it isn't too big then it should be fine.
To get the thread engagement right - take off one of you current wheels and push a bolt through it like it was done up. Measure how far the thread sticks out on the other side (it should be something of the order of half an inch or more). Then push the bolt through your new wheels and see if it sticks out more of less. If it's more you should be OK (unless it's so long it fouls on something in the hub - but if the wheel turns it's probably fine), if it's less by more than a mm or so then you might need longer bolts.
If you aren't happy checking this sort of stuff then any friendly garage should be happy to help - worst case is that they charge you for a new set of bolts (which should be less than a quid each) plus half an hour of head scratching and wheel fitting.
Alternatively if you are in Norfolk I'd be happy to do check it all out for you - I had 40 spare wheels for my MX5 at one point, none of which were Mazda wheels, so I've done this sort of thing loads of times.
Edit to add: if doogz is right all you need to do is check the length of the thread that sticks through the wheel - unless that is drastically different you should be fine. Sorry for the long reply
Great advice - really comprehensive and exactly what I'd have written but probably better put.The only tricky bit is getting the bolts to match the nuts - if both wheels have a taper under where each nut does up then you need to check that taper is the same for each wheel (60 degrees is very common, but some OE alloys use a weird spherical face which looks like a taper and works until the wheels fall off - thanks Honda, you b
ds).If there is no taper (and my old MR2 wheels were like this) there will be a flat face that the nut/bolt sits on when it's done up. In this case it's nice and simple - just try fitting a bolt and if it isn't too big then it should be fine.
To get the thread engagement right - take off one of you current wheels and push a bolt through it like it was done up. Measure how far the thread sticks out on the other side (it should be something of the order of half an inch or more). Then push the bolt through your new wheels and see if it sticks out more of less. If it's more you should be OK (unless it's so long it fouls on something in the hub - but if the wheel turns it's probably fine), if it's less by more than a mm or so then you might need longer bolts.
If you aren't happy checking this sort of stuff then any friendly garage should be happy to help - worst case is that they charge you for a new set of bolts (which should be less than a quid each) plus half an hour of head scratching and wheel fitting.
Alternatively if you are in Norfolk I'd be happy to do check it all out for you - I had 40 spare wheels for my MX5 at one point, none of which were Mazda wheels, so I've done this sort of thing loads of times.
Edit to add: if doogz is right all you need to do is check the length of the thread that sticks through the wheel - unless that is drastically different you should be fine. Sorry for the long reply
Edited by Captain Muppet on Wednesday 28th March 17:22
to another PH'r from Norfolk 'n Good - you doing the F&C run?Captain Muppet said:
B'stard Child said:
Great advice - really comprehensive and exactly what I'd have written but probably better put.
to another PH'r from Norfolk 'n Good - you doing the F&C run?
Thanks! to another PH'r from Norfolk 'n Good - you doing the F&C run? Nope, not doing the F&C run, don't even know what it is.
saaby93 said:
Waiting to hear what your insurance says when you tell them about the 'modification'
Really? It won't be interesting, almost certainly not worth waiting for.Mrs muppet phoned her's to tell them about non-standard wheels and they just thanked her for calling and added a note on her policy. Total non-event. Worth doing, obviously, but as a spectator sport it's duller than snail racing.
Captain Muppet said:
Really? It won't be interesting, almost certainly not worth waiting for.
Mrs muppet phoned her's to tell them about non-standard wheels and they just thanked her for calling and added a note on her policy. Total non-event. Worth doing, obviously, but as a spectator sport it's duller than snail racing.
Must be a novel insurerMrs muppet phoned her's to tell them about non-standard wheels and they just thanked her for calling and added a note on her policy. Total non-event. Worth doing, obviously, but as a spectator sport it's duller than snail racing.
As soon as you tick 'modification' and 'alloy wheels' on the only quote finder the available insurers can drop from about 100 to nearer 3 and the quote can jump £100.
Lug nuts
saaby93 said:
Captain Muppet said:
Really? It won't be interesting, almost certainly not worth waiting for.
Mrs muppet phoned her's to tell them about non-standard wheels and they just thanked her for calling and added a note on her policy. Total non-event. Worth doing, obviously, but as a spectator sport it's duller than snail racing.
Must be a novel insurerMrs muppet phoned her's to tell them about non-standard wheels and they just thanked her for calling and added a note on her policy. Total non-event. Worth doing, obviously, but as a spectator sport it's duller than snail racing.
As soon as you tick 'modification' and 'alloy wheels' on the only quote finder the available insurers can drop from about 100 to nearer 3 and the quote can jump £100.
Lug nuts
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