Fingers Crossed
Discussion
Well, sparking and Firing on all 8.. alot healthier... Than it was...
BUT !!!!!!! Theres always a but... The crypton showed 7 cylinders to be healthy and firing away and cyl 8 to have no power.. The lads pulled the plug out and did a full compression test and it showed all 8 cylinders have full, fighting fit compression, so not a shonky valve or nasty broken ring.. Phew, i thought - - - until a V8 man and the garage said the following.
Its either a leak via the valley gasket - crap injector on no 8 or a worn cam....
My thoughts, the plugs show'd no oil on when pulled them out (no8), it was wet, so the injector is shooting something in and it helps with compression.. So, in my huble, (and i know nowt) opinion. Its the gasket or a worn cam like allllll Chimies and Griffs with the same engine...
Mind, mine isnt like or exactly like the 390's (i'm sure they were built better than the later ones)Slightly different spec and 49cc's bigger..
So, worst case, a new cam.. What ever next eh..... At least all the electrics are in tip top condition.
Out o cash now.... The cars getting layed up... I bought i duff wan... Anyone, want a newly resprayed 400SE with a new hood etc, it looooks the dogs wotsits!! Taxed and Mot'd - Just stick a gasket on or a cam and you'll have a cracker...
Si
BUT !!!!!!! Theres always a but... The crypton showed 7 cylinders to be healthy and firing away and cyl 8 to have no power.. The lads pulled the plug out and did a full compression test and it showed all 8 cylinders have full, fighting fit compression, so not a shonky valve or nasty broken ring.. Phew, i thought - - - until a V8 man and the garage said the following.
Its either a leak via the valley gasket - crap injector on no 8 or a worn cam....
My thoughts, the plugs show'd no oil on when pulled them out (no8), it was wet, so the injector is shooting something in and it helps with compression.. So, in my huble, (and i know nowt) opinion. Its the gasket or a worn cam like allllll Chimies and Griffs with the same engine...
Mind, mine isnt like or exactly like the 390's (i'm sure they were built better than the later ones)Slightly different spec and 49cc's bigger..
So, worst case, a new cam.. What ever next eh..... At least all the electrics are in tip top condition.
Out o cash now.... The cars getting layed up... I bought i duff wan... Anyone, want a newly resprayed 400SE with a new hood etc, it looooks the dogs wotsits!! Taxed and Mot'd - Just stick a gasket on or a cam and you'll have a cracker...
Si
You don't mention if your guys tried the easiest and cheapest option first. Change the plug for a different one and try a different lead on no.8.
If the plug was wet from fuel then it's not likely to be the injector as you say.
Also, if the compression was good/equal on all eight, then I wouldn't be thinking cam neither. Surely No.8 would be showing higher compression if the cam wasn't opening the valves. Not 100% on that as it's a while since I played with compresion testers.
If the plug was wet from fuel then it's not likely to be the injector as you say.
Also, if the compression was good/equal on all eight, then I wouldn't be thinking cam neither. Surely No.8 would be showing higher compression if the cam wasn't opening the valves. Not 100% on that as it's a while since I played with compresion testers.
Well last week. I replaced dizzy and all the leads, cap, rotor arm and Ign amp, oh and coil..
I haven't done the plugs as the previous owner changed them the day before I collected it. Maybe, just maybe it's a shonky plug.
As you say, if the cam was worn it wouldn't let fuel in, but that depends on how worn it is.. But all the cylinders are showing the same compressions... So the bottom ends healthy.. And by that I mean pistons n rings n bores..
My tuners said change the valley gasket and then check the injector on no8. The bloke from RPi V8 when I went to order a valley gasket got talking and said it could be more than likely a worn cam, like the Chimies as it is the same engine as fitted to them.. In previous posts people have mentioned valley gaskets..
So, where from here. Valley Gasket first, checking the cam lobes and tappets for heavy wear! More expense..
You know I just want someone in the know to say " Si, it's this n that". Then it's all sorted, but it ain't working out that way.. No matter who I talk to... (should have bought that mk3 mx5)
I haven't done the plugs as the previous owner changed them the day before I collected it. Maybe, just maybe it's a shonky plug.
As you say, if the cam was worn it wouldn't let fuel in, but that depends on how worn it is.. But all the cylinders are showing the same compressions... So the bottom ends healthy.. And by that I mean pistons n rings n bores..
My tuners said change the valley gasket and then check the injector on no8. The bloke from RPi V8 when I went to order a valley gasket got talking and said it could be more than likely a worn cam, like the Chimies as it is the same engine as fitted to them.. In previous posts people have mentioned valley gaskets..
So, where from here. Valley Gasket first, checking the cam lobes and tappets for heavy wear! More expense..
You know I just want someone in the know to say " Si, it's this n that". Then it's all sorted, but it ain't working out that way.. No matter who I talk to... (should have bought that mk3 mx5)
Sorry to hear you are having this mind f
k of a problem..As i have learnt the problem with these cars is nothing seems to be straight forward..The biggest challenge is finding the answer..Not 10 could be's but 1 definite..Yes its a good idea to go the cheapest route but as i found out it still ended up expensive..Take a little break from scratching your brain out and come back to it..There must be someone who can point at the main problem or has had the very same issue..The forum is a wealth of knowledge but sometimes you have to sift through loads of it to find what you need..I wish i could help more..Ziga
k of a problem..As i have learnt the problem with these cars is nothing seems to be straight forward..The biggest challenge is finding the answer..Not 10 could be's but 1 definite..Yes its a good idea to go the cheapest route but as i found out it still ended up expensive..Take a little break from scratching your brain out and come back to it..There must be someone who can point at the main problem or has had the very same issue..The forum is a wealth of knowledge but sometimes you have to sift through loads of it to find what you need..I wish i could help more..ZigaOh. I made sure I was present during the crypton and comp tests to see the results. Love that kinda stuff. They can't pull the wool over then either.
Oh. All 8 spikes/sparks fat n healthy showing good leads n plugs. So can't be a lead or plug.
Maybe the injector ain't putting enough in. Where the other 7 are firing fine.
Oh. All 8 spikes/sparks fat n healthy showing good leads n plugs. So can't be a lead or plug.
Maybe the injector ain't putting enough in. Where the other 7 are firing fine.
Don't see how an inlet leak on the gasket would be relevant.
If the cam was worn and/or the valves not lifting properly then you'd probably get lower compression since there would be less air able to get into the cylinder in the first place.
The injectors on each bank all fire simultaneously so there's always a reserve of fuel/air sitting in the inlet runners ready to be drawn down by the next intaking cylinder. So just because the plug is wet it doesn't follow that the fuel came from the injector on that cylinder.
However a failure to ignite whatever fuel is there would be down to an ignition fault so I'd be looking at new plug and HT lead before I started reaching for the spanners.
If the cam was worn and/or the valves not lifting properly then you'd probably get lower compression since there would be less air able to get into the cylinder in the first place.
The injectors on each bank all fire simultaneously so there's always a reserve of fuel/air sitting in the inlet runners ready to be drawn down by the next intaking cylinder. So just because the plug is wet it doesn't follow that the fuel came from the injector on that cylinder.
However a failure to ignite whatever fuel is there would be down to an ignition fault so I'd be looking at new plug and HT lead before I started reaching for the spanners.
Simon,
Hang in there, it will be worth it !!!!
Valley gasket/compression does not way up, it has no bearing on a cylinders compression, cam! well easy test is to take the rocker cover off and rotate the engine by hand, you probably need to take all the plugs out but you will see the rockers working, you can compare heights with the other rockers. A slightly worn cam lobe will affect higher speeds and give misfire symptoms, same with a fully worn down cam, this affects the timing of the opening/closing of the valves so the cylinder is out of sync. Other case is the injector !!!
One good thing is that you can do the cam check easily at home.
Cheers
Hamish
Hang in there, it will be worth it !!!!
Valley gasket/compression does not way up, it has no bearing on a cylinders compression, cam! well easy test is to take the rocker cover off and rotate the engine by hand, you probably need to take all the plugs out but you will see the rockers working, you can compare heights with the other rockers. A slightly worn cam lobe will affect higher speeds and give misfire symptoms, same with a fully worn down cam, this affects the timing of the opening/closing of the valves so the cylinder is out of sync. Other case is the injector !!!
One good thing is that you can do the cam check easily at home.
Cheers
Hamish
Well been tinkering again tonight, I did drop links on ma everyday motor so I thought I'd tackle one more job on Thunderpants before it got tooooo cold ! The temp has defo dropped tonight. Brrrrrrrrr
Hamish, see when you cleaned your injectors, how was it done. My neighbour has a sonic bath he uses for cleaning printer jets.. How would I clean them using the bath and with what fluid.. Or give them to a specialist..
Sandy, that check hasn't been done yet.. It's a 2 or 3 man job. 3rd man would be me making coffee while you and John kindly check all me connections...Ha Ha.
Oh. While I'm at it, check out me old Volvo C70 on PH.. It's for sale.. Nice retro coupe.. Have a look, make an offer. Nothing checks gents!
Hamish, see when you cleaned your injectors, how was it done. My neighbour has a sonic bath he uses for cleaning printer jets.. How would I clean them using the bath and with what fluid.. Or give them to a specialist..
Sandy, that check hasn't been done yet.. It's a 2 or 3 man job. 3rd man would be me making coffee while you and John kindly check all me connections...Ha Ha.
Oh. While I'm at it, check out me old Volvo C70 on PH.. It's for sale.. Nice retro coupe.. Have a look, make an offer. Nothing checks gents!
Simon
In the absence of Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda (aka Jonny & Sandy but I'll let them work out which is which
)to test the ecu connections have a visual of the connections, make sure there is no damage/loose wires etc etc, rocker removal is a breeze being No 8 cylinder that's drivers side so no removing of the plenum. Rocker off, plugs out and rotate engine, then you can tick that off. I cleaned my injectors in a sonic bath (The freebe injectors from the LR guy) used one for dental products believe it or not!!! but I also pulsed them using a small battery to flow through them and check the spray, maybe overkill as they are pretty robust. Most of the dirt in my system was large particles that would not pass through the injectors just blocked the input side, basically after I stopped the engine then restarted the turbulence in the injector rail dislodged the dirt and injectors worked until next time, well that's my theory.
I'll be about this evening if you want to give me a shout you have my mob
Hang in there
Cheers
Hamish
In the absence of Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda (aka Jonny & Sandy but I'll let them work out which is which
)to test the ecu connections have a visual of the connections, make sure there is no damage/loose wires etc etc, rocker removal is a breeze being No 8 cylinder that's drivers side so no removing of the plenum. Rocker off, plugs out and rotate engine, then you can tick that off. I cleaned my injectors in a sonic bath (The freebe injectors from the LR guy) used one for dental products believe it or not!!! but I also pulsed them using a small battery to flow through them and check the spray, maybe overkill as they are pretty robust. Most of the dirt in my system was large particles that would not pass through the injectors just blocked the input side, basically after I stopped the engine then restarted the turbulence in the injector rail dislodged the dirt and injectors worked until next time, well that's my theory. I'll be about this evening if you want to give me a shout you have my mob
Hang in there
Cheers
Hamish
Ok peoples. Do you want a positive update that includes going out tonight for 90 mins to blast around the back roads where I live... Which was alot of fun when running right, what a blast.
Things are looking up. But as always, still some thing just not right, not far away now..
So I put a new set of plugs in last night. Started and sounded like a healthy V8. Magic... So left it until I got home this afternoon, double check timing, 6degrees or there abouts... Starts and sounds magic.. So I'll now check the voltage on the A.F.M. (hotwire) According to www.v8engines.com/carbs-2.htm there is an instruction on how to set the Hotwire AFM. It has to have 1.0/1.5 volts running through it to run properly.. It was sitting at 2.5volts or there abouts.. So I adjusted it back as per the above link, I set it to 1.30 volts.
I have a spare AFM, so I put that on and set it up ready for my test drive to see if the AFM's are different. I now have a tank of gas so I'm going out to test drive, as the beast sounds nice and seems to run nice. So Far !
Up the back roads, alls going well, so I pull over and swap AFM.. Check voltage and pull off for another drive.. Just the same as the old one..
The new problem is - hot running problem.. So I start it, pull away and it's phuttery again and then after 2 or 3 minutes it seems to clear its throat and runs fine... You pull over, stop and start and again it's running crapp-ish and then a short time later it clears itself and runs ok..
So I swap afm's and adjust the AFM back to 1.0 volt, ran crap and back fired.. Strange, so back to 1.20volts. And eventually run out of fuel and head home.. Not literally run out, just being cautious..
So a shonky plug me thinks. a set seems to have smoothed things out...
(I've never changed the plugs as the previous owner changed them the day before I collected it from him)
This new issue, which could have been there during the poor running is the hot running.. It's rough then clears itself.. It's like it's choking and then begins to breath ok.
So I'm thinking I need the timing fine tuned..
So someone must know what I've to set my AFM at. Also, what's the recommended timing.. The bible says 8 degrees, but that was when it was new.. The garage reckon 6 degrees is about right.. Remember my car did back fire twice tonight..which it's never done before.. And that was only when I was heading back up the hill to my house, I did nail it to get through the rough running to clear it. . Strange!
Who can give me figures that they're using on there 400SE.
Cleaning the injectors wouldnt be a bad thing, but I'm not doing that right now coz it looks a pest of a job... "Hamish what fluids did you use in your sonic bath to clean them ?"
Sandy/John. I had the ECU out last week and checked the connections at the ecu, but never checked continuity to the injectors..
Anyone. Where from here.
Good news it's getting it's new hood next week, so it'll look great soon if not running great. LOL
Si
Things are looking up. But as always, still some thing just not right, not far away now..
So I put a new set of plugs in last night. Started and sounded like a healthy V8. Magic... So left it until I got home this afternoon, double check timing, 6degrees or there abouts... Starts and sounds magic.. So I'll now check the voltage on the A.F.M. (hotwire) According to www.v8engines.com/carbs-2.htm there is an instruction on how to set the Hotwire AFM. It has to have 1.0/1.5 volts running through it to run properly.. It was sitting at 2.5volts or there abouts.. So I adjusted it back as per the above link, I set it to 1.30 volts.
I have a spare AFM, so I put that on and set it up ready for my test drive to see if the AFM's are different. I now have a tank of gas so I'm going out to test drive, as the beast sounds nice and seems to run nice. So Far !
Up the back roads, alls going well, so I pull over and swap AFM.. Check voltage and pull off for another drive.. Just the same as the old one..
The new problem is - hot running problem.. So I start it, pull away and it's phuttery again and then after 2 or 3 minutes it seems to clear its throat and runs fine... You pull over, stop and start and again it's running crapp-ish and then a short time later it clears itself and runs ok..
So I swap afm's and adjust the AFM back to 1.0 volt, ran crap and back fired.. Strange, so back to 1.20volts. And eventually run out of fuel and head home.. Not literally run out, just being cautious..
So a shonky plug me thinks. a set seems to have smoothed things out...
(I've never changed the plugs as the previous owner changed them the day before I collected it from him)
This new issue, which could have been there during the poor running is the hot running.. It's rough then clears itself.. It's like it's choking and then begins to breath ok.
So I'm thinking I need the timing fine tuned..
So someone must know what I've to set my AFM at. Also, what's the recommended timing.. The bible says 8 degrees, but that was when it was new.. The garage reckon 6 degrees is about right.. Remember my car did back fire twice tonight..which it's never done before.. And that was only when I was heading back up the hill to my house, I did nail it to get through the rough running to clear it. . Strange!
Who can give me figures that they're using on there 400SE.
Cleaning the injectors wouldnt be a bad thing, but I'm not doing that right now coz it looks a pest of a job... "Hamish what fluids did you use in your sonic bath to clean them ?"
Sandy/John. I had the ECU out last week and checked the connections at the ecu, but never checked continuity to the injectors..
Anyone. Where from here.
Good news it's getting it's new hood next week, so it'll look great soon if not running great. LOL
Si
First thing is, dont believe the timing mark on the pulley wheel. Find your own and mark with tipex or something of the like.
Take plugs out and hand turn the engine over, insert a probe into No.1 cylinder (i use a BBQ scewer) to find when the piston comes to the top. Take dizzy cap off and check to see if the rotor arm is pointing at No.1 plug lead and put a mark on the pulley at that position.
The last time i timed mine, I set it at 6 deg. Of course remembering to remove and plug advance vac pipe before timing it with a strobe.
Sorry if I'm telling you how to do something you already know. Glad it hasn't turned out to be cam or valley gasket, but it didn't sound like it was going to be.
Take plugs out and hand turn the engine over, insert a probe into No.1 cylinder (i use a BBQ scewer) to find when the piston comes to the top. Take dizzy cap off and check to see if the rotor arm is pointing at No.1 plug lead and put a mark on the pulley at that position.
The last time i timed mine, I set it at 6 deg. Of course remembering to remove and plug advance vac pipe before timing it with a strobe.
Sorry if I'm telling you how to do something you already know. Glad it hasn't turned out to be cam or valley gasket, but it didn't sound like it was going to be.
Have a read here. Some good information on setting, checking afm and throttle pot.
http://www.g33.co.uk/fuel_injection.htm
http://www.g33.co.uk/fuel_injection.htm
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