Which Westfield?
Discussion
I'm looking to buy a Westfield over the next month or so, so just looking for advice from you knowledgable people about specs before I take the plunge.
I've got a little bit of a headstart, as my brother's got a red-top engined SeiW, so I've got some idead abotu what I definitely do and don't want.
Engine choice
The car will be doing a fair few motorway miles to attend english trackdays (I'm based in Edinburgh), so I don't want anything too highly strung. Motorbike engines are definitely out, and reliability concerns (and costs) put me off going for anything too highly tuned. That said, I'm ultimately looking to be knocking on the door of 450-500bhp per tonne.
I'm thinking Duratec with TBs and cams (fairly standard cost-effective option, but limited if I want to take it further), or a Honda S2000 lump (more power, better gearbox, but mounts higher in the chassis and may have a few fitment issues). Am I missing anything?
Chassis/body
Anyone care to give me a brief synopsis of the pros and cons of the various chassis options? Is there a strong reason to go for the newer FW style over the older SE?
I definitely want IRS rather than live axle and LSD is a must.
Not bothered about weather gear, but cage options for the future might be a factor, and luggage space (snigger) might add a certain amount of convenience.
Components
Lots of people seem to go for snazzy suspension/brake components. How critical is it on such a light car? My brother's car has the Gaz dampers and Wilwood 4-pots, and I've got no complaints in either the handling or braking departments. That said, I've been very impressed with the Nitron dampers on my TVR...
Anything else? Any must-have bits I might not have thought of.
I've got a little bit of a headstart, as my brother's got a red-top engined SeiW, so I've got some idead abotu what I definitely do and don't want.
Engine choice
The car will be doing a fair few motorway miles to attend english trackdays (I'm based in Edinburgh), so I don't want anything too highly strung. Motorbike engines are definitely out, and reliability concerns (and costs) put me off going for anything too highly tuned. That said, I'm ultimately looking to be knocking on the door of 450-500bhp per tonne.
I'm thinking Duratec with TBs and cams (fairly standard cost-effective option, but limited if I want to take it further), or a Honda S2000 lump (more power, better gearbox, but mounts higher in the chassis and may have a few fitment issues). Am I missing anything?
Chassis/body
Anyone care to give me a brief synopsis of the pros and cons of the various chassis options? Is there a strong reason to go for the newer FW style over the older SE?
I definitely want IRS rather than live axle and LSD is a must.
Not bothered about weather gear, but cage options for the future might be a factor, and luggage space (snigger) might add a certain amount of convenience.
Components
Lots of people seem to go for snazzy suspension/brake components. How critical is it on such a light car? My brother's car has the Gaz dampers and Wilwood 4-pots, and I've got no complaints in either the handling or braking departments. That said, I've been very impressed with the Nitron dampers on my TVR...
Anything else? Any must-have bits I might not have thought of.
Nefarious said:
That said, I'm ultimately looking to be knocking on the door of 450-500bhp per tonne. <snip> Am I missing anything?
Yes: about 150bhp/tonnne. 
Seriously though, how have you come up with that required bhp/tonne? Even coming from a TVR, suspect a more "normal" level of power will still entertain.
Personally I don't like the FW body (think it looks awkward) but each to their own. You can easily cage any of them, so don't worry too much about that.
Brake/suspension wise, as with anything you get what you pay for and the nitrons get some very positive reviews. However, diminishing returns seem to set in earlier than on heavier cars.
Ultimately, what you want to do with the car will determine what a good spec looks like.
If you want big power how about a cosworth turbo? Have a look at this one,its epic!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
To get a 500bhp/ton car you'll need about 300bhp realistically. You don't need it if all you want is track days and the ability to get there and back. I'm not one to talk about not needing loads of power but you honestly don't need it. I went out recently in a 200bhp 1800 zetec westfield recently. It was absurdly fast and genuinely is all you need. You might want/enjoy more but need... no.
The duratec and honda engines will give you about 200bhp I imagine.
Reliability... these cars need some tinkering regularly.
You don't need fancy brakes. I had a 300bhp 4.6l v8 and it was absolutely fine on track with the standard cortina solid disks with decent pads. I had 1144s so not even that special. Worked fine, never faded, loads of reliable stopping power.
Se vs wide - wide gives more space. If you're short you don't need it. If you're tall or fat you might.
Not much in it between IRS and live axle. I really wouldn't get hung up about it.
Mark
The duratec and honda engines will give you about 200bhp I imagine.
Reliability... these cars need some tinkering regularly.
You don't need fancy brakes. I had a 300bhp 4.6l v8 and it was absolutely fine on track with the standard cortina solid disks with decent pads. I had 1144s so not even that special. Worked fine, never faded, loads of reliable stopping power.
Se vs wide - wide gives more space. If you're short you don't need it. If you're tall or fat you might.
Not much in it between IRS and live axle. I really wouldn't get hung up about it.
Mark
LooneyTunes said:
Yes: about 150bhp/tonnne.
Seriously though, how have you come up with that required bhp/tonne? Even coming from a TVR, suspect a more "normal" level of power will still entertain.
It's not just the comparison to the TVR (1100kg, 415-ish bhp), but to my bro's Westie (500-ish kg, 225bhp). Of course I don't *need* more power, but I did find that even at a fairly twisty track like Oulton, the power isn't overwhelming (decent-ish set-up, r888 tyres), and there are times when you could defintely use a bit more if it were there.Seriously though, how have you come up with that required bhp/tonne? Even coming from a TVR, suspect a more "normal" level of power will still entertain.
Plus, of course, I can be having my *little* brother outpacing me
In all seriousness, I'm buying in addition to the TVR, and a Westie is clearly a more compromised car, so there needs to be a decent amount of compensation in terms of superior performance, otherwise it's just not going to see as much use as it should.
If you're set on that the level of power and that low weight you're looking at a small subset of the market in my experience so you'll probably have to wait and see what comes up rather than looking for a specific set of specifications.
For example, there will be some duratec engined cars out there that may have 200bhp but many will kitted out with carpet, comfy seats, windscreens etc and will weigh more than 500kgs.
There's nothing in the classified at the moment that would really satisfy your requirements I don't think. Maybe you could buy something more 'standard' and modify it but it would end up costing you a lot more money.
For example, there will be some duratec engined cars out there that may have 200bhp but many will kitted out with carpet, comfy seats, windscreens etc and will weigh more than 500kgs.
There's nothing in the classified at the moment that would really satisfy your requirements I don't think. Maybe you could buy something more 'standard' and modify it but it would end up costing you a lot more money.
Went to see this car before buying my Sylva...
http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/896...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3533723.htm
Tom's a great bloke and that's a cracking car. Admittedly it's not the prettiest westfield you'll see but as a track weapon it's extremely well thought out and put together.
I was about to make an offer on it when unfortunately the gearbox developed a fault. He's now refreshed the box which means it has recently refreshed box and diff and a really fresh engine. Had I not found my sylva for sale I'd have bought it from Tom after he fixed the gearbox.
Mark
http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/896...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3533723.htm
Tom's a great bloke and that's a cracking car. Admittedly it's not the prettiest westfield you'll see but as a track weapon it's extremely well thought out and put together.
I was about to make an offer on it when unfortunately the gearbox developed a fault. He's now refreshed the box which means it has recently refreshed box and diff and a really fresh engine. Had I not found my sylva for sale I'd have bought it from Tom after he fixed the gearbox.
Mark
Edited by dern on Saturday 31st March 13:16
Nefarious said:
It's not just the comparison to the TVR (1100kg, 415-ish bhp), but to my bro's Westie (500-ish kg, 225bhp). Of course I don't *need* more power, but I did find that even at a fairly twisty track like Oulton, the power isn't overwhelming (decent-ish set-up, r888 tyres), and there are times when you could defintely use a bit more if it were there.
Plus, of course, I can be having my *little* brother outpacing me
In all seriousness, I'm buying in addition to the TVR, and a Westie is clearly a more compromised car, so there needs to be a decent amount of compensation in terms of superior performance, otherwise it's just not going to see as much use as it should.
Agree - you can often find yourself wishing for an extra few ponies on track (heading out of the chicane and over Hill Top I always want more!), but if I wanted to be sure of beating my my little bro, I'd spend the money on driver training + car set-up and try to wring more out of the car. Having the confidence to brake later and being able to carry a little more speed through the corners is worth quite a bit when it comes to avoiding being outpaced.Plus, of course, I can be having my *little* brother outpacing me
In all seriousness, I'm buying in addition to the TVR, and a Westie is clearly a more compromised car, so there needs to be a decent amount of compensation in terms of superior performance, otherwise it's just not going to see as much use as it should.
You see a few cars come up around the 200bhp mark, but far fewer at 250+ so (as others have said) you're limiting choice quite a bit.
BTW, out of interest, did he let you out by yourself at Oulton? If not, 2-up really does take the edge off the performance.
Yeah, most of my track time at Oulton was solo.
We have a special arrangement with car - I get to drive anything of his, but I'd be a cold day in hell before he gets a shot of the TVR!
I hear what you're saying re: training - I try and get a bit of tuition when I can - you never stop learning. It also helps to have the best possible tool under you!
I'm not just chasing big power, BTW, just aware that I'm used to some quite nippy stuff, and don't want to be in the position of wanting to upgrade/swap 6 months down the line - hence why I think Duratec or F20C is probably the best choice (just wondering if I'd missed something). Zetec Blacktop is pretty good, but I think they're probably a bit too highly tuned for what I want once they get to 200-ish.
T'other factor is that I find my bro's red-top just a fraction too peaky for my tastes (or at least a bit too peaky for his gearbox), so I want something that's maintained a least a *bit* of tractability below 4k rpm!
We have a special arrangement with car - I get to drive anything of his, but I'd be a cold day in hell before he gets a shot of the TVR!
I hear what you're saying re: training - I try and get a bit of tuition when I can - you never stop learning. It also helps to have the best possible tool under you!
I'm not just chasing big power, BTW, just aware that I'm used to some quite nippy stuff, and don't want to be in the position of wanting to upgrade/swap 6 months down the line - hence why I think Duratec or F20C is probably the best choice (just wondering if I'd missed something). Zetec Blacktop is pretty good, but I think they're probably a bit too highly tuned for what I want once they get to 200-ish.
T'other factor is that I find my bro's red-top just a fraction too peaky for my tastes (or at least a bit too peaky for his gearbox), so I want something that's maintained a least a *bit* of tractability below 4k rpm!
Nefarious said:
Of course I don't *need* more power, but I did find that even at a fairly twisty track like Oulton, the power isn't overwhelming (decent-ish set-up, r888 tyres), and there are times when you could defintely use a bit more if it were there.
Setup, setup, setup. A well set-up car can be underwhelming because you really can pile it on everywhere; do not mistake that for 'slow'.You could get probably get bigger thrills with a good Pinto and a poor chassis geo if you want excitement
NB I have a Fury , with a bike engine and about 160HP/430Kg. It is certainly quick by absolute standards, but for the few times I think it could take more - the reality is it would not likely prove significantly faster. As it is it's so nicely balanced I can really exploit what I have, just enough / most of the time. It is, <gasp> just right.
I was at Knockhill last weekend with a few of the WSCC and was out as passenger in a Hyabusa engined Westfield. This car was running slicks, but other than that was practically standard set up. It was set up properly, corner weighted etc and we were passing most cars including Subarus etc, and not to mention a Nissan Skyline.
Dont get me wrong, I have a Pinto engined estfield and it is nowhere near as well set up as some of the others, but it is also a quick car, and once I have had a rolling road session to set it up properly, I would like to think it will see of most cars on the track.
I appreciate your brother situation which makes it so hard.
I would recommend taking a look at the WSCC boardroom forum. Most people on there will say that power is not as important as a good set up car with less power. A lot of it is aso down to the driver and his ability to handle the car as well.
Dont get me wrong, I have a Pinto engined estfield and it is nowhere near as well set up as some of the others, but it is also a quick car, and once I have had a rolling road session to set it up properly, I would like to think it will see of most cars on the track.
I appreciate your brother situation which makes it so hard.
I would recommend taking a look at the WSCC boardroom forum. Most people on there will say that power is not as important as a good set up car with less power. A lot of it is aso down to the driver and his ability to handle the car as well.
Huff said:
Setup, setup, setup. A well set-up car can be underwhelming because you really can pile it on everywhere; do not mistake that for 'slow'.
You could get probably get bigger thrills with a good Pinto and a poor chassis geo if you want excitement
I'd agree with this.You could get probably get bigger thrills with a good Pinto and a poor chassis geo if you want excitement
Ironically, the biggest problem I can see for you, coming from a TVR, is that a well set-up 'Seven' simply won't feel lairy enough.
My Westfield is much quicker in terms of acceleration <100mph, and (particularly) circuit lap speeds, yet it feels much more composed, predictable and (dare I say it) relaxed than my Griffuth ever did when I was pressing on.
Oh, and if you want something a bit different, mine will be going up for sale shortly, too.
mnrvortxf20c said:
im selling a track car with honda s2000 engine, full cage etc. with a trailer. its not a westfield however,but an mnr vortx! give me a buzz if your interested. its in the track car section in the classifieds if you want a look! cheers
Like that a lot. Shame it's track-only (I know I want the moon on a stick...)its actually just had £1200 of iva test preperation work done by mnr at their factory and i have booked and payed for the test (£450) on the 18/04/2012. its in full road legal spec at moment with mnr's test exhaust with cat,large headlights,edge trim etc.
all can be included in sale and can tow it to track days on the trailer included until on the road! win win situation really! lol. good luck finding a westy mate,they are nice cars.
all can be included in sale and can tow it to track days on the trailer included until on the road! win win situation really! lol. good luck finding a westy mate,they are nice cars.
Thought you guys might appreciate an update (isn't it annoying when people post "What car?" threads and then never tell you what the ended up buying).
I think I've 99% decided to go for the simple (if a little dull) solution of just buying my brother's car off him (he's now got a hankering for a Mk2 Escort or similar).
Maybe not quite as exciting as a "new" car, but it's pretty much bang on the spec I want (minus a proper cage and perhaps wanting a slightly shorter final drive), and there'll be no nasty surprises. Plus it saves a whole lot of hassle chasing up and down the country looking at optimistically priced dog-baskets.
I think I've 99% decided to go for the simple (if a little dull) solution of just buying my brother's car off him (he's now got a hankering for a Mk2 Escort or similar).
Maybe not quite as exciting as a "new" car, but it's pretty much bang on the spec I want (minus a proper cage and perhaps wanting a slightly shorter final drive), and there'll be no nasty surprises. Plus it saves a whole lot of hassle chasing up and down the country looking at optimistically priced dog-baskets.
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