"Businessmen" to run police Forces
Discussion
There have been various business leader/police mentoring schemes going on for some time, eg BITC. Personal opinion reserved on that one.
However it now seems moves are afoot to:-
a) employ "business leaders" (definition ????) to "run" (definition????) UK police forces.
b) direct entry for other "business" people at Super/Ch Super level to about 500 divisional commands.
c) who the hell knows what else???
I'd really be interested to see if my opinion is off plot here or if its just the rumour mill / kite flying process, but it seems to me.....
a) Just can't believe there isn't enough talent / potential talent in the existing troops to allow development and training from within.
( Note: Recognised that Armed Forces have successful records of direct entry into commissioned positions via Dartmouth, Cranwell and Sandhurst. Would argue somewhat different situation but.....)
b) Will this really break the problem, endemic in almost all organisations, that promotion to very senior levels is not necessarily based on ability but who one plays golf with / drink with / share the same funny handshake.
c) Problem is partly due to excessive political interference, this move will (imho) make such influence from prats such as Blunkett more difficult to resist.
d) Even further alienate troops on the streets. ??
[ Why can you never find a scouser when you need one; cccaaaaaaalm down FiF cccaaaaaalm down ]
However it now seems moves are afoot to:-
a) employ "business leaders" (definition ????) to "run" (definition????) UK police forces.
b) direct entry for other "business" people at Super/Ch Super level to about 500 divisional commands.
c) who the hell knows what else???
I'd really be interested to see if my opinion is off plot here or if its just the rumour mill / kite flying process, but it seems to me.....
a) Just can't believe there isn't enough talent / potential talent in the existing troops to allow development and training from within.
( Note: Recognised that Armed Forces have successful records of direct entry into commissioned positions via Dartmouth, Cranwell and Sandhurst. Would argue somewhat different situation but.....)
b) Will this really break the problem, endemic in almost all organisations, that promotion to very senior levels is not necessarily based on ability but who one plays golf with / drink with / share the same funny handshake.
c) Problem is partly due to excessive political interference, this move will (imho) make such influence from prats such as Blunkett more difficult to resist.
d) Even further alienate troops on the streets. ??
[ Why can you never find a scouser when you need one; cccaaaaaaalm down FiF cccaaaaaalm down ]
Sounds like a good idea to me. There are too many organisations being run by people with no experience of organisations. The Government springs to mind...
If they can promote policemen to senior positions and they possess budgeting and planning skills then fair enough, but if they are in short supply then supplement the police skills with business type skills.
If they can promote policemen to senior positions and they possess budgeting and planning skills then fair enough, but if they are in short supply then supplement the police skills with business type skills.
But it's not a f
ing business ... it's a police FORCE (yeah, yeah, I know it's now called a "service" but it gives ber-all of one).
If it were run by coppers and served the public rather than politicos serving the treasury or business men serving themselves, B'liar wouldn't have to keep adding to the criminal justice laws several times a year!
Streaky
PS - I'd also buy shares in the SCPs ... guaranteed dividends - S
PPS - direct-entry commissions in the military still have to undergo all the training and are treated just like any other recruit. The days of the RSM souting, "I will call you, 'Sir', and you will call me, 'Sir'. The only difference is ... YOU WILL MEAN IT!" have not gone - S
ing business ... it's a police FORCE (yeah, yeah, I know it's now called a "service" but it gives ber-all of one). If it were run by coppers and served the public rather than politicos serving the treasury or business men serving themselves, B'liar wouldn't have to keep adding to the criminal justice laws several times a year!
Streaky
PS - I'd also buy shares in the SCPs ... guaranteed dividends - S
PPS - direct-entry commissions in the military still have to undergo all the training and are treated just like any other recruit. The days of the RSM souting, "I will call you, 'Sir', and you will call me, 'Sir'. The only difference is ... YOU WILL MEAN IT!" have not gone - S
PetrolTed said:
It may be a police force but it has to operate within a budget. I'd like to see people experienced with budgeting and planning ensuring that it's done effectively and that we get police out on the streets rather than spend too much money on gardening and cream cakes for visitors.
Ted,
I work for a company that sells software for planning and budgeting, the Police already do use it, but as Tonyrec said before it needs to be centralised as currently each force area appears to be reinventing the wheel. This will always waste money and once this is overcome the siutation will improve.
Cheers
John
By all means bring in experienced people to assist and advise but please keep the management team properly balanced with those that have experience of being a police officer. I can think of a number of once great companies that lost their way when their "widget making" core skills management team was replaced with accountants.
The Public Sector already employs key managers from industry/commerce with some good and a lot of bad results in my view.
Mike
PS Mungo - Good to see you at the Ashford "pass out" Parade.
The Public Sector already employs key managers from industry/commerce with some good and a lot of bad results in my view.
Mike
PS Mungo - Good to see you at the Ashford "pass out" Parade.
You cannot run the Police as a business for it administers failure. There is no profit margin in this.
While some of the grey topped ex plods will finger the Panda scheme in the 60s as the start of the rot, this did fetch a number of good things principly greater mobility and person radios.
Then in the 70's they appointed a failed business man Shey to apply business practices to Policing and they adopted his recommendations. Value for money, performance fiqures,assessments, paper by the ton to justify everything and the rot really started.To hell with the nitty gritty policing.
We have now one of the worst Home Secretary and Home Office Mandarins ever, the majority of which are only after personal glory and pushing hare brained schemes in uncomprehensible language, like many S.O's of today. Draft SI published yesterday Fixed penalty tickets for ten year olds for disorder.Remember the same FPN for drunk and disorderly. Obviously Wetblanket and Blair have no practical experience of dealing with a drunk and the last thing he is going to accept is a bit of paper.Seems only the Police Federation has the balls to question - not a peep from the S.O's who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
Look at the way the Health Service is run, not by trained medico's amd Matrons but by ex business bods.
Better for it? You must be joking. They cannot even clean wards despite all the money being thrown at it.
I know of an old retired Chief Inspector from a Yorkshire Force who on reading this this morning no doubt had a dose of apoplexy?????Know what I mean FiF?
Must go for a lie down BP above normal.
DVD
While some of the grey topped ex plods will finger the Panda scheme in the 60s as the start of the rot, this did fetch a number of good things principly greater mobility and person radios.
Then in the 70's they appointed a failed business man Shey to apply business practices to Policing and they adopted his recommendations. Value for money, performance fiqures,assessments, paper by the ton to justify everything and the rot really started.To hell with the nitty gritty policing.
We have now one of the worst Home Secretary and Home Office Mandarins ever, the majority of which are only after personal glory and pushing hare brained schemes in uncomprehensible language, like many S.O's of today. Draft SI published yesterday Fixed penalty tickets for ten year olds for disorder.Remember the same FPN for drunk and disorderly. Obviously Wetblanket and Blair have no practical experience of dealing with a drunk and the last thing he is going to accept is a bit of paper.Seems only the Police Federation has the balls to question - not a peep from the S.O's who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
Look at the way the Health Service is run, not by trained medico's amd Matrons but by ex business bods.
Better for it? You must be joking. They cannot even clean wards despite all the money being thrown at it.
I know of an old retired Chief Inspector from a Yorkshire Force who on reading this this morning no doubt had a dose of apoplexy?????Know what I mean FiF?
Must go for a lie down BP above normal.
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
Know what I mean FiF?
Indeed, plus never did find that scouser to get ccccaaaaalmed down.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Must go for a lie down BP above normal.
yepp me too, got a bollocking from the nurse this pm when BP checked during routine medical.
I just blamed David Blunkett as the cause. Raised a giggle anyway.
FiF
mungo said:I accept that there are exceptions, but it's difficult to read a daily paper without seeing some senior officer apologising for the fact that his "force" did not give the "service" expected - Streaky
But it's not a f
Now if you don't call that a "service"...
james_j said:
The only "successful" privatisations are where there is a monopoly, like water. A bit tricky to fail then.
Spot on . . . I used to work for one of them and they are not commercial organisations in the usual sense, having a guaranteed income stream means managers only have to work out how to spend their money . . . that's the easy bit as we all know. When they have to start competing, if that ever happens, they will have to change completely.
Also, because they don't have to work for sales there's no common feeling of success which draws people together, so there was more in-fighting and petty politics than you could ever imagine. They also invented hair brain schemes to re-organise themselves, they had to justify their existance somehow. They spent over £100m on a plan to reorganise and sell off the water assets (they are a water company !!) - the plan was that threy would become the "preferred management company" and manage their own and others assets. Complete balls up as anybody could have told them, such crazy, simplistic ideas could only come from people who have never had to earn their money.
I'll explain how they lost £30m on a vehicle leasing business in the next episode . . .
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