Some questions for the BIG bhp boys!

[sjc]

Could you answer a few things,as I'm constantly wondering how the 500/600bhp+ cars might behave and feel etc, and after another fruitless effort to find something anywhere near as engaging as my M400,it might be my only option in the future.I know Phil and Adrian were a couple of the early pioneers, and many of you ( relative to the amount of cars)it seems have also gone for it in various different routes and varying degres of success and realiability.
How do the cars get the power down,is it really useable from a traction perspective?
Have your engines been properly reliable? I'm loathe to change anything as minbe has been so reliable.
How/why did you decide on your chosen route for big power, and what route did you take?
Were you ever satisfied or is it the law of ever decreasing returns?
Do any of you have any regrets in doing it?
Did the costs get out of hand, once you decided you needed gearboxes/clutches/upgraded brakes/suspension etc etc.
And anything else you might think useful from your experience in advice, and of course if you're happy to put the relevant costs that would be great!
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm really quite intrigued by it all.

[Adrian W]

Once you go over 550 lbs of torque it's all about controlling wheel spin, but you do get used to it

[Gwagon111]

Adrian W said:

Once you go over 550 lbs of torque it's all about controlling wheel spin, but you do get used to it

That depends on the engine / drivetrain config. A FF will be very different to drive than a FR. A FR will be very different to a FAWD. And a RR will be different again. You need to develop a sophisticated 'pallette' (arse cheeks). Then you need the ability to learn from your mistakes .

[Hollowpockets]

I unplugged the boost controller to go from 611 to 500 for a lap of the ring... Plugged it straight back in and more than happy to have full power all the time, it's a usable 550lbft. It requires a bit of a gradual throttle in 2nd but otherwise the foot stays down and it grips. Needs sticky Tyres of course.

[anotherdom]

Gwagon111 said:

That depends on the engine / drivetrain config. A FF will be very different to drive than a FR. A FR will be very different to a FAWD. And a RR will be different again. You need to develop a sophisticated 'pallette' (arse cheeks). Then you need the ability to learn from your mistakes .

Thanks - question focused on the Noble M12 derivatives though, which all have the same powertrain configuration!

Dom.

[R0162]

Andy,

I have been considering these options for some time...and after ging to a true yellowshed 490bhp...then 600bhp with 550lb/ft torque makes the mind boggle...considering the other mods they are being linked with i.e. lightened flywheel, underdrive pulley, light alloys, faster gear linkage, then it just adds to my curiosity to the pint where i am pretty sure i have not yet experienced true performance...


For me it is overkill though....at 20k to do it properly you seem to get a lot for your money..i think i have spent double that in dabbling doing small mods in stages...so looking back i kind of wish i ahd just paid one lump and got it sorted properly in one go...

On the other hand you are alreday starting from M400...i would be tempted to go the GT25RS route....get some headwork done..Helix clutch..strengthen gearbox, fuel pump and injectors and job done...

[Daisy Duke]

R0162 said:

On the other hand you are alreday starting from M400...i would be tempted to go the GT25RS route....get some headwork done..Helix clutch..strengthen gearbox, fuel pump and injectors and job done...

Yes it feels naturally aspirated with the GT25RSs, no hint of lag at all. And yes it is about £20k all in, just make sure you factor in the time it'll take as well as the financial cost, as you don't want to have your car off the road during the Summer.

[sjc]

Adrian W said:

Once you go over 550 lbs of torque it's all about controlling wheel spin, but you do get used to it

This is the sort of thing I mean, if I wasn't able to use it I'd feel a bit short changed?

[sjc]

Daisy Duke said:

R0162 said:

On the other hand you are alreday starting from M400...i would be tempted to go the GT25RS route....get some headwork done..Helix clutch..strengthen gearbox, fuel pump and injectors and job done...

Yes it feels naturally aspirated with the GT25RSs, no hint of lag at all. And yes it is about £20k all in, just make sure you factor in the time it'll take as well as the financial cost, as you don't want to have your car off the road during the Summer.

Having been in yours/Phils, the lack of lag was the most impressive thing. However,one of the things that prompted my questions was that Phil had mentioned that every so often you had a bit of a stutter at a point in the rev range that had not been cured?

[sjc]

R0162 said:

Andy,

I have been considering these options for some time...and after ging to a true yellowshed 490bhp...then 600bhp with 550lb/ft torque makes the mind boggle...considering the other mods they are being linked with i.e. lightened flywheel, underdrive pulley, light alloys, faster gear linkage, then it just adds to my curiosity to the pint where i am pretty sure i have not yet experienced true performance...


For me it is overkill though....at 20k to do it properly you seem to get a lot for your money..i think i have spent double that in dabbling doing small mods in stages...so looking back i kind of wish i ahd just paid one lump and got it sorted properly in one go...

On the other hand you are alreday starting from M400...i would be tempted to go the GT25RS route....get some headwork done..Helix clutch..strengthen gearbox, fuel pump and injectors and job done...

That's all my kinda thinking.
If you're running a true 490BHP ( i.e significantly more than an average M400)at what point does the cost of going further out-weigh the gains?

[sjc]

Below is a quote from RobP sometime ago, which has always got me thinking, and why I'm loathe to mess with something that's been so reliable (so far).

"And very last of all, I would start to look for more power. In 7 yrs of Noble ownership i havn't looked for 1 extra bhp (that yellowshed couldn'd already extract from a standard engine), as hunting for power generally means that power hunts for the next weak component, and whilst you may go slightly quicker in a straight line (just before you break something), you probably won't be much quicker round a track"

[XLRONYX]

You have enough power when you can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSDu16bpL8&con...

Jeff

[sjc]

XLRONYX said:

You have enough power when you can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSDu16bpL8&con...

Jeff

I'd find that utterly pointless I'm afraid.

[RobP]

sjc said:

Below is a quote from RobP sometime ago, which has always got me thinking, and why I'm loathe to mess with something that's been so reliable (so far).

"And very last of all, I would start to look for more power. In 7 yrs of Noble ownership i havn't looked for 1 extra bhp (that yellowshed couldn'd already extract from a standard engine), as hunting for power generally means that power hunts for the next weak component, and whilst you may go slightly quicker in a straight line (just before you break something), you probably won't be much quicker round a track"

+1.

When I was at one of the Noble evening Silverstone meets last summer, I think it was 3 of the big power cars that broke vs none of the lower power cars. I absolutely HATE unreliability and a well sorted and driven Noble will be a match for most cars on track. I can see absolutely no point at all in having one the high power monsters just as a road car. All in my very humble opinion.
My car went to Dave for a broken clutch, as the engine had done over 50K miles and over 100 track days, it seemed sensible to rebuild. The engine went to Dave with 450bhp and came back with 450 bhp after the rebuild.

[TuxMan]

Interesting question Andy , as they say power is nothing without control and the std chassis copes very well , last year I ran with 490bhp and 440lbft of torque and that Is very rapid , only things that are quicker on track are other Nobles and Porsche GT2 , on the road it was pretty scared on full boost but also grin inducing !!!
One thing to remember is all the 600+ cars are heavily modified in lots of areas not just more power !!!
Also my last major upgrade has been for more power ...... Tux

[sjc]

TuxMan said:

Interesting question Andy , as they say power is nothing without control and the std chassis copes very well , last year I ran with 490bhp and 440lbft of torque and that Is very rapid , only things that are quicker on track are other Nobles and Porsche GT2 , on the road it was pretty scared on full boost but also grin inducing !!!
One thing to remember is all the 600+ cars are heavily modified in lots of areas not just more power !!!
Also my last major upgrade has been for more power ...... Tux

And following your thread with your trials and tribulations recently was another reason for my thread opener!

[TuxMan]

Yep it can be painfull but along the last 3 years of ownership I have made some good friends and the car is becoming quite a weapon , yes the last few weeks have made me feel pretty low but the gang is at Spa this weekend and I'm gutted I'm not going to be there hence why I have spent most of today working on the car , engine will go back to Martin on Wednesday and hopefully can be fixed quick and I can get her back in the. Car , sometimes you just have to dig deep

Tux

[R0162]

Andy, i think you can take your car close to 500 as is? or maybe with a few small mods, i also like reliability and i think that upgrading gearbox, helix clutch are going to be bulletproof when linked to a 500bhp car, so the mods will add reliabilty rather than detract.

With the GT25RS i was not thinking about Phil or Adrian power, but rather to use thse turbos to create a 500bhp car on lower boost.

I think Sundance even got to 550bhp with some modified T28s and stock engine?..although i think later it needed some headwork?
Basically if your happy with 500 then it shuld be relatively easy to achieve, inexpensive and should be reliable and useable, whether it be with Gt25 or T28.

[Hollowpockets]

If you don't want 600 the 550 set up me and sundance had with t28s was reliable and very quick.

[honestbob]

We used to have a regular contributor on this forum by the name of Chillidog.

He actually put his car and his skill to the test, on the race track. Not a track day, not a sraight line drag show off but against other tasty mean machines. If I recall Mr Yellow Shed had a large input into his success and one thing that sticks in my memory is that they turned the power DOWN(to 550) to help win races. Mel Davidson had reasonable success too but POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL.