This is our Thatcher moment.
Discussion
More 'In The Thick Of It' shenanigans then.
Charles Moore The Telegraph said:
Even I’m starting to wonder: what do this lot know about anything?
The modernisers act as if they own the place – when what we really need is clear leadership.
When I first heard Francis Maude’s suggestion on Sky News that we might all stock up “a bit of extra fuel with a jerry can in the garage”, I did not, I must admit, panic. His remark seemed a little unwise – and you could hear, by the way he immediately began to qualify it, that he thought so too – but I let it pass.
What I was forgetting is that ministerial words about an immediate problem with basics like fuel or food is the only sort of ministerial statement which people believe. It was like when Edwina Currie, the then junior health minister, said in 1988 that most egg production was infected with salmonella. People stopped buying eggs. After Mr Maude spoke, they swarmed to the petrol pumps.
But now that I have heard the Conservatives’ private explanation, which is being handed down to constituency associations by MPs, I begin to feel angry.
The private message is as follows. “This is our Thatcher moment. In order to defeat the coming miners’ strike, she stockpiled coal. When the strike came, she weathered it, and the Labour Party, tarred by the strike, was humiliated. In order to defeat the coming fuel drivers’ strike, we want supplies of petrol stockpiled. Then, if the strike comes, we will weather it, and Labour, in hock to the Unite union, will be blamed.”
There is a key difference which ministers have not spotted. When Mrs Thatcher piled up the coal at power stations until the strike began in 1984, she was not inconveniencing the public. In 2012, the Coalition is trying to press-gang the public, without saying so, into its political battles. All those people queuing on the forecourts were pawns in a Government-organised blame-game.
The modernisers act as if they own the place – when what we really need is clear leadership.
When I first heard Francis Maude’s suggestion on Sky News that we might all stock up “a bit of extra fuel with a jerry can in the garage”, I did not, I must admit, panic. His remark seemed a little unwise – and you could hear, by the way he immediately began to qualify it, that he thought so too – but I let it pass.
What I was forgetting is that ministerial words about an immediate problem with basics like fuel or food is the only sort of ministerial statement which people believe. It was like when Edwina Currie, the then junior health minister, said in 1988 that most egg production was infected with salmonella. People stopped buying eggs. After Mr Maude spoke, they swarmed to the petrol pumps.
But now that I have heard the Conservatives’ private explanation, which is being handed down to constituency associations by MPs, I begin to feel angry.
The private message is as follows. “This is our Thatcher moment. In order to defeat the coming miners’ strike, she stockpiled coal. When the strike came, she weathered it, and the Labour Party, tarred by the strike, was humiliated. In order to defeat the coming fuel drivers’ strike, we want supplies of petrol stockpiled. Then, if the strike comes, we will weather it, and Labour, in hock to the Unite union, will be blamed.”
There is a key difference which ministers have not spotted. When Mrs Thatcher piled up the coal at power stations until the strike began in 1984, she was not inconveniencing the public. In 2012, the Coalition is trying to press-gang the public, without saying so, into its political battles. All those people queuing on the forecourts were pawns in a Government-organised blame-game.
Pesty said:
if true who sent that message and to whom?
Agreed...is the bold bit a leaked e-mail or the author's supposition based on viewpoint only?Also:
"When Mrs Thatcher piled up the coal at power stations until the strike began in 1984, she was not inconveniencing the public." Fair enough.
But coal for power stations is a national supply issue, whereas petrol and diesel for private transport is a personal supply issue on which only individuals can take action. The queues were a result of action and would have been anticipated, people in them were clearly prepared to wait - until police action led to petrol station closures in some areas.
That's not to say the government has handled this well or for the reasons they claim, but that particular angle in the article doesn't work very well and it seems to be the major angle.
I would dearly like to know if that internal memo is genuine. If the panic statements were not politically motivated, then what have they actually acheived? People can only stockpile so much fuel safely, so is that really good advice for a strike that may never happen? Petrol stations putting up prices which are already sky high and growing public panic, over what? Poor governance by an out of touch coalition.
Caulkhead said:
Headline should be "Tories guilty of underestimating the stupidity of the general public".
Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
Why all these jealousy on this site about that wage? Or about anyone earnings that sort of wage who isn't in IT, financed or a lawyer? Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
People make choices either because they can or can't do certain jobs. Why the anger if they earn more than you or less than you but aren't doing the sort of work you think should pay that much. At least they are providing a tangible physical service. Same with the frustration that some bin men were earning okay.
We live in a country where you decide your job.
Stop being jealous or envious. Instead change your career or think well done.
Pesty said:
if true who sent that message and to whom?
Looks like it was ACTUALLY said by Yvette Cooper:BBC website said:
Speaking to the BBC's Andrew Marr programme, shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper accused ministers of trying to provoke a confrontation with unions similar to that between Margaret Thatcher and the miners in the 1980s.
"They created this petrol crisis," she said. "What they did was they caused a run on the pumps for political reasons because they wanted a 'Thatcher moment'."
"They created this petrol crisis," she said. "What they did was they caused a run on the pumps for political reasons because they wanted a 'Thatcher moment'."
Caulkhead said:
Headline should be "Tories guilty of underestimating the stupidity of the general public".
Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
As the source is the Telegraph it's unlikely to be false, in other words this does seem to be politically motivated. Your comments about average wages are misleading, we're hardly dealing with an average cargo and a major part of the disagreement is around health and safety standards, which have been steadily compromised over the last few years. That is the bigger picture and I would say that the drivers have a case, one that we should all have an interest in.Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
crankedup said:
Its not April 1st, it just goes from bad to worse, read this morning that Hague is now defending the Maude statement! 
And what was wrong with what Maude said? Unless you are doggedly determined to make mischief with it, (as some labour politicians and the media are trying to do) its sounded quite sensible. Or are you another one who thinks Maude is responsible for the plight of the Yorkshire woman who set herself on fire?
andymadmak said:
Eric Mc said:
Isn't storing petrol in a domestic garage actually against the law?
I thought you could store up to 2 gallons in suitable containers - Jerry Cans?
This is not a jerry can -
I would think that following Maud's "advice" one would exceed the two gallon limit.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Caulkhead said:
Headline should be "Tories guilty of underestimating the stupidity of the general public".
Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
Why all these jealousy on this site about that wage? Or about anyone earnings that sort of wage who isn't in IT, financed or a lawyer? Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
People make choices either because they can or can't do certain jobs. Why the anger if they earn more than you or less than you but aren't doing the sort of work you think should pay that much. At least they are providing a tangible physical service. Same with the frustration that some bin men were earning okay.
We live in a country where you decide your job.
Stop being jealous or envious. Instead change your career or think well done.
Eric Mc said:
andymadmak said:
Eric Mc said:
Isn't storing petrol in a domestic garage actually against the law?
I thought you could store up to 2 gallons in suitable containers - Jerry Cans?This is not a jerry can -
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/...
TTwiggy said:
Well said - on the same sub forum where anyone who questions bankers' bonuses is told to 'do one', we get wage envy of people who are driving a giant molotov cocktail around the roads. Astounding.
I'm with fido - it's about strike action not wage envy. But well done on bringing the banking sector into another thread 
Eric Mc said:
Isn't storing petrol in a domestic garage actually against the law?
I'm sure there is a limit. some by law or some such thing. i remember from the last time definitely that it is the case. however I have not been able to find any info on how much or where etc etc.im sure its not a law that is enforced much becaue plenty of people use jery cans.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Caulkhead said:
Headline should be "Tories guilty of underestimating the stupidity of the general public".
Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
Why all these jealousy on this site about that wage? Or about anyone earnings that sort of wage who isn't in IT, financed or a lawyer? Still, it's an interesting way of steering the blame away from those threatening to strike as twice the average wage isn't apparently enough to drive a truck these days.
People make choices either because they can or can't do certain jobs. Why the anger if they earn more than you or less than you but aren't doing the sort of work you think should pay that much. At least they are providing a tangible physical service. Same with the frustration that some bin men were earning okay.
We live in a country where you decide your job.
Stop being jealous or envious. Instead change your career or think well done.
I'm against the concept of striking in principal but I'm prepared to compromise on my beliefs and accept that for minimum wage non-skilled workers the right to strike is important to them.
Once you become a skilled worker, your skill is what gives you job security and bargaining power with your employer. If your skill doesn't give you the power you think you deserve when negotiating your employment then your skills are not as valuable as you think they are. Acting like a child and refusing to work (i.e. going on strike) does not portray the image of a well trained, experienced professional.
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