Discussion
I hate smoking, it's the ignorant numpties that have in the past (it seems to happen less these days) assume that they can spark up anywhere that annoy as much as anything. But, as long as you don't do it near me, knock yourself out.
Now, on the radio today, much noise has been made about this covering up the shelves with fags and baccy on them. Andrew Lansley was on saying he wanted social change around smoking where smoking was not seen as the norm, or some such.
Someone else was on saying how x number of thousand people die every year directly and indirectly from smoking.
So, if smoking was effectively outlawed, whether morally or legally, what would the benefit be?
People smoke and pay a huge amount of tax to do so how much to they pay and how much do they cost us? They probably have more time off through ill health on average, which is a cost, but they pay more tax and probably die earlier, so save us money on state pensions.
Over to the panel.
Now, on the radio today, much noise has been made about this covering up the shelves with fags and baccy on them. Andrew Lansley was on saying he wanted social change around smoking where smoking was not seen as the norm, or some such.
Someone else was on saying how x number of thousand people die every year directly and indirectly from smoking.
So, if smoking was effectively outlawed, whether morally or legally, what would the benefit be?
People smoke and pay a huge amount of tax to do so how much to they pay and how much do they cost us? They probably have more time off through ill health on average, which is a cost, but they pay more tax and probably die earlier, so save us money on state pensions.
Over to the panel.
Yep...they're out for the smokers today. Don't worry, once they've finished with the smokers they'll move onto something else. Drinking is the obvious one, first they'll move the booze off the shelves, move it into a backroom and you have to ask the assistant for it. Then pubs will be closed, you'll only be able to drink at home.
Then, they'll come for something else. Don’t know, maybe cars or something, they'll make laws so that cars can only be owned by people with a demonstrable need for one.
Don't worry, its for your own good!
Then, they'll come for something else. Don’t know, maybe cars or something, they'll make laws so that cars can only be owned by people with a demonstrable need for one.
Don't worry, its for your own good!
Willy Nilly said:
People smoke and pay a huge amount of tax to do so how much to they pay and how much do they cost us?
Willy Nilly said:
They probably have more time off through ill health on average, which is a cost, but they pay more tax and probably die earlier, so save us money on state pensions.
Last set of figures I can remember were £12Bn tax, £5Bn outgoing, so we smokers fund the NHS for one day. Huzzah!
Unless its a global ban, we will all pop over to Belgium and buy our ciggies without paying HMRC their pound of flesh.
Completely agree with the poster above about "first they came for the Jews, and I said nothing"
Unless its a global ban, we will all pop over to Belgium and buy our ciggies without paying HMRC their pound of flesh.
Completely agree with the poster above about "first they came for the Jews, and I said nothing"
Saddle bum said:
Smoking is the perfect method of limiting the numbers in the underclass.
The only problem is that everyone has to pay when the NHS goes through the motions of trying to treat them.
As the government rakes in vastly more money from smokers than is paid out to the NHS for them, the day smoking is banned a lot of non-smokers are going to be very unhappy - they'll claw back the money somehow, probably by taxing alcohol more.The only problem is that everyone has to pay when the NHS goes through the motions of trying to treat them.
gamefreaks said:
Yep...they're out for the smokers today. Don't worry, once they've finished with the smokers they'll move onto something else. Drinking is the obvious one, first they'll move the booze off the shelves, move it into a backroom and you have to ask the assistant for it. Then pubs will be closed, you'll only be able to drink at home.
Then, they'll come for something else. Don’t know, maybe cars or something, they'll make laws so that cars can only be owned by people with a demonstrable need for one.
Don't worry, its for your own good!
The propaganda seems to be building up against 'unhealthy foods', so I imagine they'll be slapping a health tax on those next to help people reduce the amount of chocolate the eat Then, they'll come for something else. Don’t know, maybe cars or something, they'll make laws so that cars can only be owned by people with a demonstrable need for one.
Don't worry, its for your own good!
Willy Nilly said:
So, if smoking was effectively outlawed, whether morally or legally, what would the benefit be?
You've already had the usual answers so here's some different ones 
If smoking was banned/ outlawed/ call it what you will, there would be no benefits. As you may be aware, the Yanks tried prohibition of alcohol almost 100 years ago and got themselves into a right mess by so doing. What would go wrong would be:
1. As someone has already said, smokers would go abroad to get their fags (even more than they do now) so the Chancellors tax take would fall significantly. This would have to be made up somehow. What about putting VAT on kids clothes to get the money back - that sounds like a vote winner
2. Nicotine is a drug, that many people would still want (it is estimated that about 21% of the population currently smoke IIRC). If they couldn't go abroad to get the stuff, the black market would provide for them. Even less tax for the Chancellor because, not only would the treasury lose out on the tax on tobacco, but the black market would not be paying tax on its earnings.
3. 1 and 2 being the case, people would still need treatment on the NHS for smoking related diseases, so not much saving there, except perhaps from those who were encouraged to give up smoking.
4. Those that were encouraged to give up smoking, and kept off the weed, would most likely live a little longer. If, for sake of argument, you had 1 million ex-smokers put another 5 years on their lives, that would put about £5.2 billion a year on the State Pension bill. I don't think we'd better stop at VAT on kids clothes, we'd better put up the basic rate of tax and the pension age still further to plug the financial hole.
Still sure that its a good idea?
Edited cos I can't multiply correctly
Edited by rs1952 on Friday 6th April 18:41
Saddle bum said:
Smoking is the perfect method of limiting the numbers in the underclass.
The only problem is that everyone has to pay when the NHS goes through the motions of trying to treat them.
What complete and utter B****ks!The only problem is that everyone has to pay when the NHS goes through the motions of trying to treat them.
Underclass? Which rock have you been hiding under for the last 100 odd years?
I don't class the following as "underclass". Some might not have "Much" class though!
Barack Obama,
Albert Einstein, probably the world’s greatest ever scientist
Thomas Edison, inventor of the lightbulb, phonograph etc
Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone
Robert Oppenheimer (1904 – 1967)
Edwin Hubble (1889 – 1953)
Winston Churchill, British Prime Minister during WW2
Franklin D Roosevelt, American president during WW2
Bill Clinton
Helmut Schmidt: (West) German chancellor from 1974 to 1982.
Gerhard Schr�der: former German Chancellor
Queen Margrethe II: queen of Denmark
Princess Stephanie of Monaco
King Hussein of Jordan
Camilla Parker Bowles
John F Kennedy, former US president
Gerald Ford, former US president
George Orwell
Oscar Wilde
Jean-Paul Sartre
JR Tolkien (1892 – 1973), writer of “The Lord of the Rings”, one of the top selling novels of all time
J.K. Rowling wrote many of her Harry Potter books as a smoker. After she quit smoking she became a Nicorette chewing gum addict.
CS Lewis, Irish writer
Christopher Lee (b. 1922), famous for playing Dracula
Whoopi Goldberg
James Dean, 2 packs of Chesterfields a day
Keith Richards
Elizabeth Taylor
Robert Palmer, UK rock star
Sophia Loren
Kate Winslet
Raquel Welch
Luciano Pavarotti, cigar smoker, the greatest tenor of his generation
Catherine Deneuve
Geri Halliwell, cigars
John Wayne (1907 – 1979)
Nicole Kidman
Mel Gibson
Kate Middleton, Prince William’s girlfriend
Joanna Lumley
David Carradine
Russell Crowe
Frank Sinatra (1915 – 1998)
Robbie Williams
Pierce Brosnan
Marilyn Monroe
Meg Ryan
John Lennon
Pat Benatar
Al Pacino
Robert De Niro
Eddie Van Halen, chain smoker!
Vincent Van Gogh
Ivana Trump
‘Abuelo del Mundo’ (Grandfather of the World) Joan Riudavets Moll, a lifelong smoker who died aged 114 in 2004
Jeanne Calment, the world’s oldest ever person who died aged 122, only quit smoking aged 117
Claudia Schiffer
Alfred Hitchcock
Maurice Ravel, the composer of Bolero
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Auguste Renoir
Pablo Picasso (1881 – 1973), the most famous painter of the 20th century, died aged 92.
Che Guevara
Aaron Spelling (1923-2006): the world’s most succesful TV producer ever.
David Bowie, quit after a heart attack
Johnny Depp
Joaquin Phoenix
Marlene Dietrich, lived to 90
Joseph Stalin
Jennifer Aniston, 2 packs of Merit a day
Brad Pitt
Angelina Jolie
Ben Affleck
Kate Hudson
Goldie Hawn
Colin Farrell, a pack a day
Ashton Kutcher
James Woods, after smoking for 33 years, lit his last cigarette on 29th December 2003
Lucille Ball, most of her life
Drew Barrymore, Red Marlboros
Kurt Cobain
Chris Cornell, quit already, lead singer of Soundgarden & Audioslave
Ian Curtis, before his suicide
Bette Davis
Sammy Davis Jr
Deng Xiaoping, China Paramount Leader smoked Panda Brand until over 90 years of age.
Mao Zedong
Walt Disney of Disney vacations fame, chain-smoker, died aged 65
Layne Staley, lead singer of Alice in Chains
Pete Doherty, lead singer of Babyshambles
Bob Dylan, 80 cigs a day, quit already
Siobhan Fahey, Bananarama and Shakespear’s Sister singer.
Liam Gallagher
Noel Gallagher
George Harrison, chain smoker
Audrey Hepburn, several packs a day
Lyndon B. Johnson, heavy smoker for most of his life. Habit contributed to his death from a heart attack at age 64 in 1973.
Shah Rukh Khan, rarely without cigarettes off screen, though he vowed to reduce smoking on his 40th birthday.
Lindsey Lohan
Dean Martin, smoked on stage and on television. Lung cancer.
Freddie Mercury, heavy smoker, quit after being diagnosed with HIV
Joni Mitchell
Kate Moss, smokes four packs of Marlboro Lights per day, starting at age 12.
Leonard Nimoy
Jimmy Page
Sean Penn, 4 packs of American Spirit cigarettes per day
Richard Pryor
Mike Dirnt, Green Day bassist
W Axl Rose
Angus Young, AC/DC guitarist
Frank Zappa
Fidel Castro, quit cigars at age 59
Joan Collins
Bill Cosby
Bo Derek
Danny De Vito
Linda Evangelista
Sigmund Freud
George Gershwin
Ulysses S. Grant, Civil War general and U.S. President. Twenty cigars a day. Died of throat cancer.
Samuel L Jackson
David Letterman
Pope St. Pius X, smoked on occasion.
Pope John XXIII, who died in 1963, was a cigar smoker in his youth.
Charles Spurgeon, British Baptist preacher, who reportedly said “When I have found intense pain relieved, a weary brain soothed, and calm, refreshing sleep obtained by a cigar, I have felt grateful to God, and have blessed His name.”
Sylvester Stallone
Kevin Costner
rs1952 said:
Still sure that its a good idea?
I'm not sure it is a good idea, that's why I posted. This morning it seemed like the Law Of Unintended Consequences was about to kick in. Maybe they should lower the duty on tobacco, so people smoke more, die younger and lower the pensions bill. Just as long as they don't do it near people that don't want to breathe smoke in.
A lot of valid points made here. It is true about the cost in Tax. If everyone was to just stop, there would be a 7 Billion pound black hole needing to be filled. Since the smoking ban. half the pubs in my town have shut and the rest are struggling. These were mostly traditional sawdust on the floors type, and had no option to expand into food etc. It does my tits in when I here that it's great to go to a pub now and now smell of smoke. True. But how may of these same folk kept the wee pub trade alive. I really do feel more and more our freedom of choice is being diminished. Anything that does not conform to lentil munchers is seen as being bad and must be eradicated. The thing that really does my head in is that the proprietor of the premises (pub if you like) was not giving the option to make it a smoking pub or to supply a room for smoking. Hiding fags behind a screen doesn't discourage young people either to not take up smoking. Peer pressure does.
I personally like to smoke a cigar in the sunshine with a bottle of beer or three, but I was never bothered about fag smokers in pubs.
I personally like to smoke a cigar in the sunshine with a bottle of beer or three, but I was never bothered about fag smokers in pubs.
Willy Nilly said:
Maybe they should lower the duty on tobacco, so people smoke more, die younger and lower the pensions bill.
Funny you should say that, because I got a letter from my MP only last week about this very subject after I raised it with him. The relevant sentence reads:MP letter said:
Finally, with regard to the UK duty rates on tobacco, the Government, like previous governments, has a policy of establishing and maintaining high levels of taxes on tobacco products, as this has been proven to reduce smoking prevalence
So there we are. Our Glorious Leaders clearly know best. In the meantime, of course, the Belgian Finance Ministry is probably getting as much tax from UK smokers as as George Osbourne.Funny old world, innit?
CommanderJameson said:
If not being able to smoke in the pub is all it takes to keep you at home, then either the pub is s
t or you're not as loyal a customer as you think you are.
If this is aimed at me, you would find that I still go to my local as much, as well as a few others. I cannot speak for others, but the jist of it is that if the weather is bad, they don't go, as there is no shelter for a fag outside the pub or it is too coldt or you're not as loyal a customer as you think you are. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff