Dew Claws

[CommanderJameson]

Do they grow back, like toenails?

One of ours has been fussing with his paw where he had one taken off a while ago after he damaged it.

[bexVN]

It depends on how much damage the base of the nail suffered. If a lot then possibly not. Most will grow back though.

Some will grow back slightly deformed so could be a source of irritation.

Obviously if it's been surgically removed and the bone removed as well it should not grow back

Edited by bexVN on Friday 6th April 19:44

[pikeyboy]

Looks like a good advert for why working dogs have them removed.

[Doshy]

when I picked up my Bernese puppy they had been removed by the breeder.

[bexVN]

Strange thing to do on a Bernese?

Don't agree with it. I used to see pups having this done and they'd squeal and cry out for several mins after, no better than tail docking.

I know some dogs can catch them/ damage them but it's just a few compared to the amount that don't.

[pikeyboy]

Can't understand why you'd remove dew claws or dock a non working breed. However docking and dew claw removal prevent painful injury. Both my GSP's are docked and have no dew claws as was my previous GWP.

Edited to add that a few mins pain when they are upto 3 days old vs loads of pain having a damaged tail removed or ripping off a dew claw when they are several years old, its a no brainer for me.

Edited by boy on Saturday 7th April 18:19

[bexVN]

I can just about accept it for genuine working dogs and only if it is a working dock not a fashion dock but breeders abuse this clause by claiming their pups are going to be working dogs yet never are.

I took on a dumped puppy whippet yrs ago. Didn't realise straight away that he had 2 scars where his few claws would've been, completely unnecessary it's really uncommon for a whippet to damage dew claws!

Edited by bexVN on Saturday 7th April 18:28

[pikeyboy]

Seeing as you have to decide at upto 3days old IIRC whether they will be earning their keep or not and most breeders dont know for sure what the buyer will have doing most breeders choose to have them docked. Some pain at a very young age that doesn't scar them for life apart from the missing tail!.

[Piglet]

We had our Springers removed when she was spayed, she isn't worked but does spend most of her time nose down, bum up in the undergrowth and had damaged her dew claws regularly. She had no difficulty with the wound at all afterwards although of course hers were removed under anaesthetic.

[bexVN]

boy said:

Seeing as you have to decide at upto 3days old IIRC whether they will be earning their keep or not and most breeders dont know for sure what the buyer will have doing most breeders choose to have them docked. Some pain at a very young age that doesn't scar them for life apart from the missing tail!.

It's illegal to dock tails of pups that are not going to be working. They injure limbs and feet just as frequently but we obviously don't chop these off just in case so I do find it really weird that it's ok to chop off a tail.

I see just as many dogs that have but their pads and ripped their other claws to not really believe docking is that relevant re parts a dog can injure when working.

Edited by bexVN on Saturday 7th April 18:50

[pikeyboy]

bexVN said:

It's illegal to dock tails of pups that are not going to be working. They injure limbs and feet just as frequently but we obviously don't chop these off just in case so I do find it really weird that it's ok to chop off a tail.

I see just as many dogs that have but their pads and ripped their other claws to not really believe docking is that relevant re parts a dog can injure when working.

Edited by bexVN on Saturday 7th April 18:50

Bex there is a subtle nuance in the law as far as I remember such that the breeder only has to believe they will be worked to get them docked. A letter from a local shoot captain, land owner or a shotgun cert are sufficent for this. As far as I'm aware its not illegal to own a dog of a working breed in england that has been legally docked whether you work it or not.

As far as damage to other limbs is concerned yes obviously they get damaged pads and cuts to legs but these heal pretty fast and are simple to treat. Waiting for a broken tail to heal takes a long time and usually nevers heals correctly resulting in a painful operation for the dog.

Just to be clear I don't advocate docking for non working breeds or to get back on topic removal of dew claws etheir. However for working breeds I think it needs to be done as a preventative measure.

Plenty of chaps on here with working spaniels maybe one will chip in as they really are very susceptable to damaged tails dew claws getting right in the brambles etc. Purely as a matter of interest do you see many working dogs at your practice?

[Piglet]

We had a period of about 6 or 7 months where our springer had damaged her tail in bushes and it wouldn't heal. You try persuading a Springer not to wag its tail and you want to see the looks people give you when your dog has blood all up its flanks where it's slapped its bleeding tail against itself...plus the mess it makes of your walls and woodwork...

As I said above, she isn't worked in any shape or form and for various reasons isn't walked for extended periods of time , yet she damaged her dew claws repeatedly and had a damaged tail for months, it caused her a lot of pain and distress although we managed to avoid any infections by keeping everything very clean.

I love her full tail but I have seen first hand the difficulty in getting a full tail to heal and the same with dew claws so I can see why breeders would hedge their bets.

[bexVN]

Mainly working labs, which do not have tails docked even though they run in under growth with tails wagging non stop.

Have a friend that used to have working terriers, her partner at the time used to insist on docking but long enough to still grab the tail, she didn't agree but it meant they were easier to sell as a worker. (she was into fox hunting and a vet nurse proper country girl)
We don't dock at our practice, to easy for people to twist the rules so better to stay out of it!

[pikeyboy]

bexVN said:

Mainly working labs, which do not have tails docked even though they run in under growth with tails wagging non stop.

Have a friend that used to have working terriers, her partner at the time used to insist on docking but long enough to still grab the tail, she didn't agree but it meant they were easier to sell as a worker. (she was into fox hunting and a vet nurse proper country girl)
We don't dock at our practice, to easy for people to twist the rules so better to stay out of it!

My old boy used to have labs when I was young, I think they have a thicker tails than my pointers and spaniels. This may be why they aren't so susceptable to damage?

Re docking at your practice I've heard of people having arranged an appointment for a litter to be docked at their vets only for them to decline to do it all paperwork in order and no wool being pulled over eyes. This has left people in a right mess and desperately ringing round to get them done.

I think many people and practices take a blanket no docking policy now.

[bexVN]

I can just about understand why working dogs may need dew claws removed and tails docked, I'd just rather not be a part of it on few day old pups as I don't think most dogs genuinely benefit enough for it.

Op sorry your thread has been a bit hi jacked, hope your dogs claw is ok!

Edited by bexVN on Saturday 7th April 23:05

[gd49]

Most recent research showed that 500 dogs have to be docked to prevent one tail injury - I'm not sure that's a reasonable balance vs the pain of docking and the inhibition of social communication for the dog.

http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/166/26/812...

Will be an interesting area to watch - now Scotland has a total ban in a few years there should be enough data to show if tail docking is/was a worthwhile procedure.

boy said:

Bex there is a subtle nuance in the law as far as I remember such that the breeder only has to believe they will be worked to get them docked. A letter from a local shoot captain, land owner or a shotgun cert are sufficent for this. As far as I'm aware its not illegal to own a dog of a working breed in england that has been legally docked whether you work it or not.

Might be the letter of the law, but not really the spirit of the law.

[pikeyboy]

gd49 said:

Might be the letter of the law, but not really the spirit of the law.

So what percentage of working dogs not docked avoided a tail injury by being docked?

Also how many undocked dogs had long term pain ful messy tail injury but recovered?

You have to remember the pups are a few ie upto 3 days old when docked and may suffer some pain for a few minutes, compare this to several weeks for a damaged tail to heal. Sort of similar to a jewish circumcision at 8 days old, lots of pain at the time but doubt anyone remembers it.

As you say it'll be interesting to see how things go in scotland.

Edited by boy on Saturday 7th April 23:26

[AdiT]

Docking and dew claw removal because of risk of injury is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. By that I mean, by docking you never breed for a stronger tail (or not breed from weak tailed dogs) so end up with weaker tails...
so dock... so...

My Weim isn't docked. The farmer I got him from could have had him done as he worked his dogs but chose not to as (a) the pups were all going as pets, and (b) he didn't think it was needed. His tail is nice and thick to the point where it would have been docked but from there is quite thin/bony. Every un-docked Weim I've seen is the same. Now I'm pretty sure if there'd been years of not docking, that would have been bred out.

If working dogs (of docked breeds) are docked, how are there any evidence of tail injuries? I don't work mine, but he's constantly on the undergrowth and his tail is like a strimmer when he's searching. I doubt any working dog expends anymore energy in broken ground. Never injured either tail or dew claws but has cut pads twice needing stiches, had one bad cut needing stiches in his leg, constantly has minor cuts to pads, legs, ears and chest. I bumped into an Ex-Weim breeder who had stopped because he said not docking was so dangerous it was in his opinion cruel to breed them and not dock! All but accused me of cruelty! So I asked how many tail "awefull tail injuries" (his words) he'd seen? "There's been thousands". But he'd seen... none... because they've all been docked.

[Piglet]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

I suspect it is an element of Kudos in a perverted way for the owner to give the 'Nod' of "Oh Yah, a worker"

Yeah right....you've got me, I thought I know I'll have her dew claws removed cos then the farmers will think I'm cool

[C3BER]

As boy states how can a gundog breeder know who will buy his/her dogs and will they work or not. I would state that maybe a registered gundog breeder could have the tails done but puppy farm/pet home breeder not. As for claws taken at two or three days of age by a vet I see it as a no brainer if it saves future damage to the dog or owners alike.

My springer is docked but my brothers pet springer is only tip docked but both have their claws taken off. Our Bernese likewise has been to the vet for his claws removing.