The official tax-dodging socialists thread
Discussion
Add Galloway to the list, along with D. Milliband. Obviously Red Ken was outed by Boris earlier in the week.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9192330/G...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9192330/G...
martin84 said:
I take it tax dodging Tories are perfectly acceptable then? Just curious.
I suspect not at all... I suspect the purpose is more to illustrate the hypocrisy that exists in those whom on one hand 'support the common man' while at the same time nosebagging for all they are worth exploiting all those perks they so eagerly decry!
martin84 said:
I take it tax dodging Tories are perfectly acceptable then?
You could argue that Conservatives are essentially capitalists at heart and Tax Avoidance is essentially capitalism personified.I have serious doubts about the likes of Red Ken claiming to be a socialist and fiddling his books. Boris Johnson actually pays A LOT of Tax over £200,000 last year.
Seems lot more honest to me than champagne socialists fiddling whilst protesting their Taxation virtue. T Blair and N Kinnock are two more in the same game.
Dishonest from start to finish. Clever but unprincipled and dishonest.
Since when was Tony Blair a socialist?
Anyway, poor excuses to only focus on tax dodgers from one side of the political divide. They're all the same people, genuine socialists don't really exist anymore barring Red Ken and David Cameron has used words like 'fair' and 'fairness' on about a thousand occasions when promoting the Coalitions policies.
Just because we expect Tories to be tax dodging scumbags doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them especially because it weakens any pro-Tory argument. The Tories won't win votes by saying 'we're scum but people know we are' will they?
Anyway, poor excuses to only focus on tax dodgers from one side of the political divide. They're all the same people, genuine socialists don't really exist anymore barring Red Ken and David Cameron has used words like 'fair' and 'fairness' on about a thousand occasions when promoting the Coalitions policies.
Just because we expect Tories to be tax dodging scumbags doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them especially because it weakens any pro-Tory argument. The Tories won't win votes by saying 'we're scum but people know we are' will they?
martin84 said:
Since when was Tony Blair a socialist?
Anyway, poor excuses to only focus on tax dodgers from one side of the political divide. They're all the same people, genuine socialists don't really exist anymore barring Red Ken and David Cameron has used words like 'fair' and 'fairness' on about a thousand occasions when promoting the Coalitions policies.
Just because we expect Tories to be tax dodging scumbags doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them especially because it weakens any pro-Tory argument. The Tories won't win votes by saying 'we're scum but people know we are' will they?
No but Labour do expect to win votes by point out tories do it, when they do it themselves and then make up excuses to justify it when questioned.Anyway, poor excuses to only focus on tax dodgers from one side of the political divide. They're all the same people, genuine socialists don't really exist anymore barring Red Ken and David Cameron has used words like 'fair' and 'fairness' on about a thousand occasions when promoting the Coalitions policies.
Just because we expect Tories to be tax dodging scumbags doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them especially because it weakens any pro-Tory argument. The Tories won't win votes by saying 'we're scum but people know we are' will they?
Some of the reasoning that they give is absolutely appalling, even worse when they try to hide it.
So far the Tories have been up front about it and Boris has made sure that he is not on any tax avoidance, Where as Labour have always described themselves as the socialist party... despite many members adopting capitalist attitudes to their own finances.
Steffan said:
Boris Johnson actually pays A LOT of Tax over £200,000 last year.
Minor point that was missed in a lot of the reporting on the tax declarations:All the mayoral candidates had to declare their total household income (i.e. including their partners) as Ken Livingstone employs his wife through his company Silveta Ltd for maximum tax efficiency.
Boris Johnson was quoted as having considerable earnings from sources other than his job as London Mayor. However these earnings may have come from his wife who is a barrister.
ralphrj said:
Steffan said:
Boris Johnson actually pays A LOT of Tax over £200,000 last year.
Minor point that was missed in a lot of the reporting on the tax declarations:All the mayoral candidates had to declare their total household income (i.e. including their partners) as Ken Livingstone employs his wife through his company Silveta Ltd for maximum tax efficiency.
Boris Johnson was quoted as having considerable earnings from sources other than his job as London Mayor. However these earnings may have come from his wife who is a barrister.
That equated to £400k+ a year and hence the £200k+ in tax.
Only those with Ltd companies had to declare the total household income I believe, as this was about the candidates, not their spouses if they are not drawing off the Ltd.
heppers75 said:
martin84 said:
I take it tax dodging Tories are perfectly acceptable then? Just curious.
I suspect not at all... I suspect the purpose is more to illustrate the hypocrisy that exists in those whom on one hand 'support the common man' while at the same time nosebagging for all they are worth exploiting all those perks they so eagerly decry!
jains15 said:
Puggit said:
martin84 said:
I take it tax dodging Tories are perfectly acceptable then? Just curious.
They aren't the ones bleating about 'fairness'jains15 said:
Puggit said:
martin84 said:
I take it tax dodging Tories are perfectly acceptable then? Just curious.
They aren't the ones bleating about 'fairness'I guess the question is "Is a tax dodging conservative politician worse than a tax dodging labour politician?"
If the tax dodge is equal, IMO it is worse for a labour politician. Their entire raison d'etre is to redistribute wealth by taxing the rich, so in addition to the wrong of tax dodging, there's the fact that they don't really believe in socialism.
The free market liberalist attitude of "everybody is responsible for themselves" is at least ideologically compatible with tax dodging.
If the tax dodge is equal, IMO it is worse for a labour politician. Their entire raison d'etre is to redistribute wealth by taxing the rich, so in addition to the wrong of tax dodging, there's the fact that they don't really believe in socialism.
The free market liberalist attitude of "everybody is responsible for themselves" is at least ideologically compatible with tax dodging.
jains15 said:
Puggit said:
martin84 said:
I take it tax dodging Tories are perfectly acceptable then? Just curious.
They aren't the ones bleating about 'fairness'
I can also assure you I'll be taking all legal steps next year to reduce this. I object to my hard earned money being wasted on the feckless in such an overt manner.
martin84 said:
Just because we expect Tories to be tax dodging scumbags doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them especially because it weakens any pro-Tory argument. The Tories won't win votes by saying 'we're scum but people know we are' will they?
It's a simple matter of hypocrisy. If you are publically of the view that taxes are too high and there is nothing wrong with arranging your personal affairs within the law to minimise your liability, there is nothing wrong with doing so. If your stated view is that taxes need to be higher and legal tax avoidance is immoral, then avoiding tax yourself exposes you as an untrustworthy, dishonest hypocrite. If Peter Tatchell were to discover that a couple of senior Catholic cardinals had been bumming each other while castigating homosexuality from the pulpit, the argument of "well Tatchell is gay too" wouldn't really be much of a defence, would it?
otolith said:
martin84 said:
Just because we expect Tories to be tax dodging scumbags doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them especially because it weakens any pro-Tory argument. The Tories won't win votes by saying 'we're scum but people know we are' will they?
It's a simple matter of hypocrisy. If you are publically of the view that taxes are too high and there is nothing wrong with arranging your personal affairs within the law to minimise your liability, there is nothing wrong with doing so. If your stated view is that taxes need to be higher and legal tax avoidance is immoral, then avoiding tax yourself exposes you as an untrustworthy, dishonest hypocrite. If Peter Tatchell were to discover that a couple of senior Catholic cardinals had been bumming each other while castigating homosexuality from the pulpit, the argument of "well Tatchell is gay too" wouldn't really be much of a defence, would it?
Anyone who believes that one side is better than the other is seriously deluded. So Osborne now say he is 'very happy to consider publishing the personal tax returns of senior cabinet ministers'. I bet senior cabinet ministers are not very happy to consider this. Meanwhile Labour and the others are playing the 'If you show us yours, we'll show you ours' game.
It's like somethin from Yes Minister. I guess they are all praying that it will all go away after Easter and they can get back to business as usual. Namely screwing the rest of us while lining their own slimy pockets.
It's like somethin from Yes Minister. I guess they are all praying that it will all go away after Easter and they can get back to business as usual. Namely screwing the rest of us while lining their own slimy pockets.
I expect serial killers to murder people so that must make them better than those who only do it once.
Seriously, you either approve of tax dodging or you dont. Dont try and make out its alright for your precious Tories to do it but not the other side. If loopholes are going to be closed then good, but until they are can you expect somebody from the Labour side - or indeed any side - to abide by laws and rules which do not exist?
PH's support for the Conservative Party despite the modern incarnation being nothing short of diabolical is quite laughable. The Tories said they'd sort out immigration - they haven't. The Tories said they'd protect civil liberties - now they look to bring in the draconian measures proposed by the last Government. The Tories said they'd end the war on the motorist - then made petrol more expensive and failed to shut down speed cameras. The Tories said numerous times during the election campaign they would NOT raise VAT - then raised VAT almost instantly, not for the first time in their history. They also said we're all in this together - unless you're a pasty-eating-caravan-liking pensioner. I could bring up dozens of other examples but I think you get the point.
Add this to the Andy Coulsen fiasco, the Liam Fox scandal, the Petrol crisis invented by Francis Maude, the destruction of the NHS, the Cameron-Soldiers comments which I thought was disgusting frankly especially coming from an Oxford poshboy who's idea of danger is a dry cleaners without valet parking and the fact the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. This Government has been a disaster since the second they took office with several rounds of hypocrisy and incompetence and after possibly the worst fortnight since taking office, its pretty rich to be having a go at their opposition.
The 'wonderful' brutal capitalist Tory party hasn't existed for over two decades and barely existed before the 1980s so maybe if PH got its head out of its arse and ignored the fact the current lot wear blue ties they'd realise the Tories are actually quite useless in every way as well.
Seriously, you either approve of tax dodging or you dont. Dont try and make out its alright for your precious Tories to do it but not the other side. If loopholes are going to be closed then good, but until they are can you expect somebody from the Labour side - or indeed any side - to abide by laws and rules which do not exist?
PH's support for the Conservative Party despite the modern incarnation being nothing short of diabolical is quite laughable. The Tories said they'd sort out immigration - they haven't. The Tories said they'd protect civil liberties - now they look to bring in the draconian measures proposed by the last Government. The Tories said they'd end the war on the motorist - then made petrol more expensive and failed to shut down speed cameras. The Tories said numerous times during the election campaign they would NOT raise VAT - then raised VAT almost instantly, not for the first time in their history. They also said we're all in this together - unless you're a pasty-eating-caravan-liking pensioner. I could bring up dozens of other examples but I think you get the point.
Add this to the Andy Coulsen fiasco, the Liam Fox scandal, the Petrol crisis invented by Francis Maude, the destruction of the NHS, the Cameron-Soldiers comments which I thought was disgusting frankly especially coming from an Oxford poshboy who's idea of danger is a dry cleaners without valet parking and the fact the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. This Government has been a disaster since the second they took office with several rounds of hypocrisy and incompetence and after possibly the worst fortnight since taking office, its pretty rich to be having a go at their opposition.
The 'wonderful' brutal capitalist Tory party hasn't existed for over two decades and barely existed before the 1980s so maybe if PH got its head out of its arse and ignored the fact the current lot wear blue ties they'd realise the Tories are actually quite useless in every way as well.
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