After a bit of advice on buying a 3 series
Discussion
High all, don't post much (intimidated mainly 
) but this is the best place for some motoring advice that I know of, anyway to the point... I'm looking at changing my motor (my Rover Coupe is starting to get on my wallets nerves) and I'm looking at the 3 series (E46, without the ugly round headlights) for around the £3-4000 mark, maybe a tad more (£200 or so) if it gets me a better machine.
I realise that it won't be low mileage but I'd like to know more about the best engine/model (petrol, I simply don't do enough mileage, about 4100 a year, to justify an oil burner), anything to look out for, especially on the higher powered models (I wouldn't mind something with a bit of poke though). I've looked at a 325 and frankly it had a hard life (very high mileage, dented, scratched and worn interior, a bit of an all round dog frankly) but it did confirm that I wouldn't mind the coupe model (a rag top wouldn't go amiss either) and I like the 3 series a bit more than I used to.
All the cars that I've had up until now have been low powered/old and either British (a couple of Austin Metros, a Rover 214 and my Coupe) or French (an '86 205 and a Mk II Clio, both diesels and I won't be buying French ever again). This area of motoring is pretty much new territory for me and I need a bit of guidance so anything offered will be very much appreciated.
Graham
) but this is the best place for some motoring advice that I know of, anyway to the point... I'm looking at changing my motor (my Rover Coupe is starting to get on my wallets nerves) and I'm looking at the 3 series (E46, without the ugly round headlights) for around the £3-4000 mark, maybe a tad more (£200 or so) if it gets me a better machine.I realise that it won't be low mileage but I'd like to know more about the best engine/model (petrol, I simply don't do enough mileage, about 4100 a year, to justify an oil burner), anything to look out for, especially on the higher powered models (I wouldn't mind something with a bit of poke though). I've looked at a 325 and frankly it had a hard life (very high mileage, dented, scratched and worn interior, a bit of an all round dog frankly) but it did confirm that I wouldn't mind the coupe model (a rag top wouldn't go amiss either) and I like the 3 series a bit more than I used to.
All the cars that I've had up until now have been low powered/old and either British (a couple of Austin Metros, a Rover 214 and my Coupe) or French (an '86 205 and a Mk II Clio, both diesels and I won't be buying French ever again). This area of motoring is pretty much new territory for me and I need a bit of guidance so anything offered will be very much appreciated.
Graham
I just picked up a 330 ci sport. Amazing car, loads of power and surprisingly good economy.
Just make sure it has a decent service history.
Suspension is a known weak point so either get one which has the work done or budget to get it done especially if the car is around the 100k mark.
Just make sure it has a decent service history.
Suspension is a known weak point so either get one which has the work done or budget to get it done especially if the car is around the 100k mark.
For that mileage I would definitely get a 330. Coupes seem to be most expensive, then Tourers then Saloons.
Things I would look out for (in this order)
1)Rust. check everywhere but especially the arches.
2)Coolant problems. as they get older plastic parts in the cooling system start to fail. If you get there and the climate control is on 32 degrees and the fan speed on minimum I would be very suspicious (This is how you bleed the system).
3)Suspension problems. as has been said they are hard on suspension so check there are no strange knocks.
4)Warning lights. E46's seem to love displaying the occasional (non serious) warning light. Yellow oil level light will be sensor in the sump. ABS/Traction control light will most probably be an ABS sensor.
Aside from that they are pretty strong and common problems will be easy and cheap to fix. Every problem I have had with mine has been easily diagnosed with an internet search and usually a step by step guide with photos.
Now I expect there will be lots of people telling you to get an E39...
Things I would look out for (in this order)
1)Rust. check everywhere but especially the arches.
2)Coolant problems. as they get older plastic parts in the cooling system start to fail. If you get there and the climate control is on 32 degrees and the fan speed on minimum I would be very suspicious (This is how you bleed the system).
3)Suspension problems. as has been said they are hard on suspension so check there are no strange knocks.
4)Warning lights. E46's seem to love displaying the occasional (non serious) warning light. Yellow oil level light will be sensor in the sump. ABS/Traction control light will most probably be an ABS sensor.
Aside from that they are pretty strong and common problems will be easy and cheap to fix. Every problem I have had with mine has been easily diagnosed with an internet search and usually a step by step guide with photos.
Now I expect there will be lots of people telling you to get an E39...
Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly keep an eye on the coolant problems, nice to know about that actually (never had a car with climate control/air con before so it's something I've never had to look out for before), rust is certainly one thing I'll be looking for (as well as any dings and dents), if I'm paying this kind of cash then it had better be rust free (which would be the most I've ever paid for a car). I take it the sensors on these things can be quite expensive and troublesome to replace? (but then, whenever are they ever cheap).
Good to know that most of the niggles are relatively cheap to fix and I don't mind getting my hands dirty (replacing the engine in the Pug and the amount of work performed on the Coupe has certainly seen to that). Liller, what kind of mileage are you getting from yours? Having done a bit of reading on Parkers and other sites some are suggesting that they are getting around the thirty mark which would certainly surprise me.
As for the E39, nice looking car and there's certainly some good looking examples out there but perhaps a wee bit big for me
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(which would be the most I've ever paid for a car). I take it the sensors on these things can be quite expensive and troublesome to replace? (but then, whenever are they ever cheap).Good to know that most of the niggles are relatively cheap to fix and I don't mind getting my hands dirty (replacing the engine in the Pug and the amount of work performed on the Coupe has certainly seen to that). Liller, what kind of mileage are you getting from yours? Having done a bit of reading on Parkers and other sites some are suggesting that they are getting around the thirty mark which would certainly surprise me.
As for the E39, nice looking car and there's certainly some good looking examples out there but perhaps a wee bit big for me
.32 combined for me at the moment on my 330 ci.
I can confirm check suspension - i didnt and i had to have bushes replaced on the front! I personally look for the following on a car if this nature:
- if possible one or two owners
- an honest and comrehensive service history with a story behind the milage on MOTs that makes sense
- the seller talks you through this service history - shows you they have looked after the car
- bmw torch and toolkit complete - shows its been cared for
- wouldnt buy off a seller who has been prepared to spend money fixing niggles (electrics etc)
- decent life in decent tyres
Frankly, my experience was two sellers existed. Guys who had the car for a good chunk of years and had cared for it and looked after it and guys who had bought the car a year or so ago, trashed te tyres and abused it and wanted to sell before being hit with a service cost.
There are loads of e46 threads with advice on here
I can confirm check suspension - i didnt and i had to have bushes replaced on the front! I personally look for the following on a car if this nature:
- if possible one or two owners
- an honest and comrehensive service history with a story behind the milage on MOTs that makes sense
- the seller talks you through this service history - shows you they have looked after the car
- bmw torch and toolkit complete - shows its been cared for
- wouldnt buy off a seller who has been prepared to spend money fixing niggles (electrics etc)
- decent life in decent tyres
Frankly, my experience was two sellers existed. Guys who had the car for a good chunk of years and had cared for it and looked after it and guys who had bought the car a year or so ago, trashed te tyres and abused it and wanted to sell before being hit with a service cost.
There are loads of e46 threads with advice on here
I got 34mpg on the motorway when I picked it up and I was driving around 70-80. I expect to get low to mid 20's in london.
I was looking for one for a while and found huge differences in prices for similar age cars. I stayed clear of any with over 4 previous owners and I also avoided any which had any mods like window tints or non factory spec wheels.
There are plenty about so it's worth holding on till the right one turns up.
I was looking for one for a while and found huge differences in prices for similar age cars. I stayed clear of any with over 4 previous owners and I also avoided any which had any mods like window tints or non factory spec wheels.
There are plenty about so it's worth holding on till the right one turns up.
bilsland said:
Frankly, my experience was two sellers existed. Guys who had the car for a good chunk of years and had cared for it and looked after it and guys who had bought the car a year or so ago, trashed te tyres and abused it and wanted to sell before being hit with a service cost.
There are loads of e46 threads with advice on here
this is exactly what I found as well.There are loads of e46 threads with advice on here
I've had my 2002 330 Coupe for 3 years now, Bought it at as a 2 owner car with 92k on the clock, now at 131k. It's my first BMW and I love it, but I have spent some money on the problem areas mentioned above - all 4 springs and dampers replaced, 2 control arms, 2 bushes, 2 brake discs (my fault - should have trusted my instinct on the test drive), and a new thermostat and will probably replace the water pump as a precaution soon. The next problem is rusty arches and rear bodywork just above the bumper. But I'm now doing 30k miles per year since starting a new job, so I may not bother spending much money on the bodywork because in another couple of years it will be at nearly 200k, and not worth much even with nice bodywork. I get 32mpg on my fast motorway commute. More mixed driving sees it drop to high 20s.
Had my 330i Saloon for about 3 months now, there's a thread running in the Readers Rides section if you want a look http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
I got an AA Inspection done on mine before I bought it, and except for a few common fault and cheap fixes it was deemed a good car. So far all I've had to pay to fix is the coolant leak, which required a new radiator, and my Airbag ECU had a dodgy connection and the very common passenger seat occupancy sensor fault was also present. I also had to replace the auxiliary belt and a tensioner. All that cost me £500 to put right. When I bought it at the start of the year I paid a bit over £4k and got a 2003 71,000mile car in good shape, yes there are some minor dings and a scratch or two, the wheels need a refurb too, but the interior is in very good condition, and other than the things I mentioned it is in good health.
In terms of running it I have averaged a total 23mpg, though this is mainly from my short commute to work. On longer runs to uni and back home I can see 35mpg at a decent pace on motorways. Taking it easy will see you into the high 30s. I once had 40mpg, admittedly doing 50mpg in 6th with the cruise control on.
But overall it is a joy to own.
I got an AA Inspection done on mine before I bought it, and except for a few common fault and cheap fixes it was deemed a good car. So far all I've had to pay to fix is the coolant leak, which required a new radiator, and my Airbag ECU had a dodgy connection and the very common passenger seat occupancy sensor fault was also present. I also had to replace the auxiliary belt and a tensioner. All that cost me £500 to put right. When I bought it at the start of the year I paid a bit over £4k and got a 2003 71,000mile car in good shape, yes there are some minor dings and a scratch or two, the wheels need a refurb too, but the interior is in very good condition, and other than the things I mentioned it is in good health.
In terms of running it I have averaged a total 23mpg, though this is mainly from my short commute to work. On longer runs to uni and back home I can see 35mpg at a decent pace on motorways. Taking it easy will see you into the high 30s. I once had 40mpg, admittedly doing 50mpg in 6th with the cruise control on.
But overall it is a joy to own.
Joey Deacon said:
1)Rust. check everywhere but especially the arches.
Failed to notice when looking at mine that the driver's side front wing had some small rust bubbles forming. I think I missed it because the rest of the bodywork was so mint. Front wings are not such a big deal because they're not that pricey to buy, and can simply be unbolted (or so I read). Its the rear wings that cause a bit more trouble, because you're looking at having to have the rust cut out and repaired properly.Anyone want to comment on whether its worth trying to have the front wings repaired? I had read that they rust from the underside, so by the time you've seen the rust bubbles on the surface, its probably too late to economically repair them, and you're better off just swapping them out.
Joey Deacon said:
4)Warning lights. E46's seem to love displaying the occasional (non serious) warning light. Yellow oil level light will be sensor in the sump.
Mine had this when I bought it (yellow light stayed on for several seconds after pulling away, despite oil level being on max). However, it since seems to have fixed itself, so I wonder if it was a symptom of the car having stood for a while. I love it when cars fix themselves - although its more what I'd expect of the Rover the OP mentions Also, has anyone mentioned the fact that the manual gearbox can be a bit sticky when cold? The most notable problem is that the gear lever seems to be inclined towards the 5th gear end of the gate until the car has warmed. There are couple of cheap parts that can be replaced to solve the problem, but they require the gearbox to be dropped - so best just living with it unless it really bothers you.
Very common failure is the final stage resistor (aka the hedgehog) which controls the climate control fan speed. If you test drive a car where the climate control fan speed oscillates or doesn't seem to work properly, its most likely to need a new final stage resistor. The part can be bought from eBay for about £30, and there are loads of online guides showing exactly how to replace it (make sure you find a guide for right hand drive cars though). It does require some amount of contortion to fit, but this ham fisted amateur mechanic managed it without any disasters...
I love my 330 Ci. It wasn't that expensive, and on motorway trips, its not that bad on fuel either. The original owner of mine was very generous with the options list, and added xenons, Harman Kardon hi-fi upgrade, electric sunroof, heated memory seats etc.
Thus far, it hasn't cost me anything from a mechanical point of view yet (apart from the final stage resistor I mentioned, which was a cheap fix). However, I'm fully aware its a ten year old car that has covered 100k miles, so I'm expecting it to break and need money spending on it. If you're happy to accept that, then they're great cars.
Very interesting, I've only focused on the 330 as the cars in the local area, well a thirty mile radius, the best examples have been them in particular. However as it happens I'm off to see a 2003 320 this afternoon with 77,000 on the clock at £3600 that's just come up for sale, the only other ones I've seen with mileage under the 100k mark in the price band I can afford have been a 323 and 330 convertibles (good looking cars mind and would'nt say no to either one). Failing all else I'll keep on saving and keep on looking with armed a better pool of knowledge about what to look out for thanks to you guys.
From a petrol point any BMW that I can afford won't be as good (but then it's a 2+ltr vs a 1.8VVC, 168-ish+hp vs 145hp, and that was when new, more than a few horses have bolted from the stable since then) or even from a insurance point - £340 for the rover, fully comp anything other than a 318 I'm looking at the £400 mark, the 330 is knocking on at £500 though after reading your readers rides and how much you paid I'm thinking Bargain!.
From a parts point of view though it'll have some stiff competition with my coupe (knowing my luck any car that replaces it will probably give it a good run for its money ). Right now it just seems that it's one thing after another though, just had a track rod end replaced (nice and cheap) but it's brought to light the steering rack is on the way out (a £272 bill for the part alone, cheaper than it might have been though) and it looks the thicker all aluminium head gasket has gone as well (a little bit of goop on the dip stick has been seen).
From a petrol point any BMW that I can afford won't be as good (but then it's a 2+ltr vs a 1.8VVC, 168-ish+hp vs 145hp, and that was when new, more than a few horses have bolted from the stable since then) or even from a insurance point - £340 for the rover, fully comp anything other than a 318 I'm looking at the £400 mark, the 330 is knocking on at £500 though after reading your readers rides and how much you paid I'm thinking Bargain!.
From a parts point of view though it'll have some stiff competition with my coupe (knowing my luck any car that replaces it will probably give it a good run for its money
). Right now it just seems that it's one thing after another though, just had a track rod end replaced (nice and cheap) but it's brought to light the steering rack is on the way out (a £272 bill for the part alone, cheaper than it might have been though) and it looks the thicker all aluminium head gasket has gone as well (a little bit of goop on the dip stick has been seen).alpha channel said:
Very interesting, I've only focused on the 330 as the cars in the local area, well a thirty mile radius, the best examples have been them in particular. However as it happens I'm off to see a 2003 320 this afternoon with 77,000 on the clock at £3600
I used to have a 320 Ci, which I was also really fond of (sold it a couple of years ago, because we needed a 5 door car, and regretted it almost immediately!). The 320 is actually a 2.2L, and basically the same engine as the 330, only smaller. Thus, it makes a similar noise, and is nice and smooth, but obviously without the same level of "go". Because its basically the same engine, the same caveats and advice related to the cooling system etc. would apply.
On the plus side, it still has 170hp, and on a long motorway journey you'll see (in my experience) as much as 5mpg more than the 330. My 320 was an automatic, and my 330 a manual, and this is the difference I'm seeing in fuel economy on the same journey. Work pays for my fuel, so I'm not that bothered though
Edited by stevesuk on Wednesday 11th April 09:52
Just a wee update the 320 that I went to see wasn't too bad, no knocking on the suspension engine sounded smooth, stalled it setting off because I couldn't hear the engine and when I gently prodded the brake I damned well near bounced my head off the steering wheel, didn't quite expect how sharp the brakes would be (thought I stalled it when we came back from the test drive as well, damn good sound insulation).
A couple of issues though, rust on the rear wheel arches (not all the way through, bubbling on the rear arches was just starting, no dings or dents though, but a body shop job all the same to stop it dead in its tracks) and I didn't realise just how dinky the foot well is, every time I went to change gear my wide size 11's kept getting caught up on the foot rest and having a go pedal pivoting from the bottom was weird as well.
I think I'll keep looking as there's no hurry and the longer I look the more money I'll have (though the first thing I might do if I get one is remove the foot rest).
A couple of issues though, rust on the rear wheel arches (not all the way through, bubbling on the rear arches was just starting, no dings or dents though, but a body shop job all the same to stop it dead in its tracks) and I didn't realise just how dinky the foot well is, every time I went to change gear my wide size 11's kept getting caught up on the foot rest and having a go pedal pivoting from the bottom was weird as well.
I think I'll keep looking as there's no hurry and the longer I look the more money I'll have (though the first thing I might do if I get one is remove the foot rest).
alpha channel said:
and I didn't realise just how dinky the foot well is, every time I went to change gear my wide size 11's kept getting caught up on the foot rest and having a go pedal pivoting from the bottom was weird as well.
You get used to it. I miss a floor hinged pedal now. They are brilliant for long journeys because they virtually act as a footrest. Thank you all for all the information as it has come in very useful. An interesting website, having a read of the forums (can never have enough information in my opinion).
You know, after having a think about the car last night I don't know if it was the cabins sound proofing (most likely considering I couldn't hear the engine on tick over and it's quite a nice place to sit as well) or the car itself but it didn't feel all that fast I did however get the impression that it was quite a heavy car and somehow 168hp just wasn't enough for the bulk it was trying to haul around, though the grip of the 18" 255/35's was quite impressive.
I'm definitely going to keep an eye out for one now though, though how long it'll take me to get used to brakes that sharp I'm not entirely sure .
You know, after having a think about the car last night I don't know if it was the cabins sound proofing (most likely considering I couldn't hear the engine on tick over and it's quite a nice place to sit as well) or the car itself but it didn't feel all that fast I did however get the impression that it was quite a heavy car and somehow 168hp just wasn't enough for the bulk it was trying to haul around, though the grip of the 18" 255/35's was quite impressive.
I'm definitely going to keep an eye out for one now though, though how long it'll take me to get used to brakes that sharp I'm not entirely sure
. It's not true that they are no more expensive to buy - but the rest is true, they cost the same to run.
Whilst you can find 330i's for 320i moneys generally speaking they will be older, or poorer spec, or higher mileage, or poorer condition or a combination of these. Like for like, a 330i costs more. As you'd expect - its the model everyone wants instead of a 320i.
Whilst you can find 330i's for 320i moneys generally speaking they will be older, or poorer spec, or higher mileage, or poorer condition or a combination of these. Like for like, a 330i costs more. As you'd expect - its the model everyone wants instead of a 320i.
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