Hills - more training required!
Discussion
First off, not too many things you can do off the bike to improve climbing other than keeping a careful watch on your weight. Some people will say that doing certain leg exercises in the gym can make a difference but I'm not entirely convinced by this argument. The only true way of improving your climbing is to actually get on to the hills! I'm not sure which type of climb you're struggling on - the short, sharp effort or the longer climb.
I've just got back from a week's training in the Alps and there's no way I'd attack a 50 minute climb like you would a 3 minute effort climb. The longer climb is all about comfort - bike set up especially. Selecting the right gear and keeping a fairly high cadence, and knowing when to go into the red and when not to are also very important.
What I tend to do on a fairly regular basis is to do repeat hill efforts on a climb I know quite well. E.g. it may be, say, 1.5km long and 8.5% gradient (roughly a 3 or 4 minute effort) - and I will do this climb on the big chainring 53/19 so that I'm definitely overgeared but I'm out the saddle, power climbing. I'm not really interested in going up as quickly as I can - rather I'm more concerned with leg strength as my cadence will be quite low. I will repeat this effort between 12 and 15 times. A real killer workout but it works for me. I also do lumpy solo rides and I found whenever I did the group riding that I was easily one of the strongest in the hills. Remember solo rides make you very very strong.
But, if you do go out on group rides, try and go out with riders that are quicker than you, and the incentive to stay with them should definitely improve your climbing.
I've just got back from a week's training in the Alps and there's no way I'd attack a 50 minute climb like you would a 3 minute effort climb. The longer climb is all about comfort - bike set up especially. Selecting the right gear and keeping a fairly high cadence, and knowing when to go into the red and when not to are also very important.
What I tend to do on a fairly regular basis is to do repeat hill efforts on a climb I know quite well. E.g. it may be, say, 1.5km long and 8.5% gradient (roughly a 3 or 4 minute effort) - and I will do this climb on the big chainring 53/19 so that I'm definitely overgeared but I'm out the saddle, power climbing. I'm not really interested in going up as quickly as I can - rather I'm more concerned with leg strength as my cadence will be quite low. I will repeat this effort between 12 and 15 times. A real killer workout but it works for me. I also do lumpy solo rides and I found whenever I did the group riding that I was easily one of the strongest in the hills. Remember solo rides make you very very strong.
But, if you do go out on group rides, try and go out with riders that are quicker than you, and the incentive to stay with them should definitely improve your climbing.
Short sharp hills I can deal with but it's the long drawn out ones that do for me. One good routine off the bike are power intervals in the gym.
1. 5 minutes of warm up
2. 4 minutes of low cadence/high resistance
3. 1 minutes of high cadence/low resistance
4. Repeat 2&3
5. 5 minutes of warm down
For the low cadence part I was recommended to go with 50rpm and dial up a resistance that gives you a power output of 250-300w (whatever feels challenging but manageable to begin with). This is great because at 50rpm every pedal is a grind. It's all inertia with no momentum.
For high cadence put in a tiny resistance and spin at ~95rpm.
Start with around 20min (not inc. warm up/down) and add 5min per week. Keep the time limited to 40 minutes and just up the resistance when you get there.
It's a really good workout if, like me, you don't get the time/opportunity to ride the bike. I'm in my 6th week of this and I can really feel the improvement when I'm out.
1. 5 minutes of warm up
2. 4 minutes of low cadence/high resistance
3. 1 minutes of high cadence/low resistance
4. Repeat 2&3
5. 5 minutes of warm down
For the low cadence part I was recommended to go with 50rpm and dial up a resistance that gives you a power output of 250-300w (whatever feels challenging but manageable to begin with). This is great because at 50rpm every pedal is a grind. It's all inertia with no momentum.
For high cadence put in a tiny resistance and spin at ~95rpm.
Start with around 20min (not inc. warm up/down) and add 5min per week. Keep the time limited to 40 minutes and just up the resistance when you get there.
It's a really good workout if, like me, you don't get the time/opportunity to ride the bike. I'm in my 6th week of this and I can really feel the improvement when I'm out.
Go mountain biking. You spend a lot of time climbing. I always find that after a lot of mtb'ing I'm much better up the hills on a road bike - not that I use mine much. Conversely the times I have done a fair bit of road biking, when I go back to mtb'ing I find I suck on the hills.
I really don't have the build for climbing - too big and heavy - but do enjoy it and I've yet to find a better (in terms of time vs result) way of training for them on the MTB.
I really don't have the build for climbing - too big and heavy - but do enjoy it and I've yet to find a better (in terms of time vs result) way of training for them on the MTB.
rhinochopig said:
Go mountain biking. You spend a lot of time climbing. I always find that after a lot of mtb'ing I'm much better up the hills on a road bike - not that I use mine much. Conversely the times I have done a fair bit of road biking, when I go back to mtb'ing I find I suck on the hills.
I found I was completely the opposite. A MTB is designed to go up, erm, mountains and has gearing to suit.Do more of them.
I've been doing lots of hills recently, and had a pretty horrid hill in a race the other day that I struggled with, but I was able to get up it and stay in contention every lap.
3 months ago, going up it once really killed me, but I did it 6 times on Saturday at a far higher pace and it wasn't too bad.
I've been doing lots of hills recently, and had a pretty horrid hill in a race the other day that I struggled with, but I was able to get up it and stay in contention every lap.
3 months ago, going up it once really killed me, but I did it 6 times on Saturday at a far higher pace and it wasn't too bad.
TKF said:
I found I was completely the opposite. A MTB is designed to go up, erm, mountains and has gearing to suit.
I ride a single front ring though - 9 speed - so the gearing is much higher so you have to work a lot harder. I also seldom use the bottom few gears when climbing unless I'm dying. Even better if you're a lightweight with good strength a single-speed is a good option. A single-speed is a great way to build climbing strength.
But yes, if you're simply dropping into granny ring and spinning up the hill I could see how it would be of little benefit.
rhinochopig said:
Even better if you're a lightweight with good strength a single-speed is a good option. A single-speed is a great way to build climbing strength.
Whilst I agree that a single speed is a good way to train for strength and a smooth pedalling action you do need to be careful. Riding up hills on a single speed bike with something like a 42 -16 is going to put a lot of pressure on your knees (particularly if you are a heavier rider).I have a nearby hill which is about a mile long at a steady gradient, when in serious training i'll do it once a week on my way home from work. I climb it 5 times, usually i'll do the first 2 or 3 at a fast but steady pace, then the last two i'll go flat out. I'm a heavier rider, strong at flat TTs but this and losing some weight has definitely helped my climbing.
Why not ride down to the Ashdown Forest and use the hills around Crowborough.
A simple figure of eight route using London Road, Mardens Hill, Church Hill, Kidds Hill and the surrounding villages will give you plenty of hills to practice on. Remember to vary the route though so your body doesnt get used to the ride
I used to be really good in the hills however In the last few years this has diminished significantly whilst my Sprint improved a lot. At first I didn't mind as most races were fairly flat but now hilly races seem to be more popular! I dont really train that much as I used to and its telling everytime I get shelled on a climb.
My plan is to hit the steep roads 2 evenings a week and do intervals of spinning and grinding.
My plan is to hit the steep roads 2 evenings a week and do intervals of spinning and grinding.
Pretty much an echo of everything that mcelliot suggested will help!
Losing body weight will be one of the single most beneficial things you can do to improve your climbing ability - i live on the edge of Dartmoor where almost all rides are hilly and really notice the difference when i lose a little "timber". Do this and try to find a local hill that is akin to those which you find hardest and do repeats, lots of them. Its a bit boring, but it really does work. Otherwise pick a loop that has a mix of hard climbs in and ride it solo as often as you can, i personally prefer this method as i get bored easily, but its not such a quick fix.
Its also beneficial to use as low a gear as possible when your climbing on a long ride, whilst maintaining a high cadence, over a ride of this distance this will help keep the dreaded cramp at bay. Grinding out a high gear may be tempting to give others the impression that you're stonger than you are, passing them by during the early stages as they spin their legs wildly making seemingly little progress, but you will pay for it with cramp later in the ride. Especially if you're not used to long hilly rides, cramp will very likely be a problem you encounter in the later stages. Fairly sure that Lance used a triple chainset for some of the Alpine stages for this very reason.
Another tip that i have learnt over the years is to never freewheel when you get over the top, no matter how tempting it may be, always keep your legs spinning on the descent. Not only will you get to the bottom quicker, but fast spinning against little resistance is something else that will dissipate the dreaded lactic.
Losing body weight will be one of the single most beneficial things you can do to improve your climbing ability - i live on the edge of Dartmoor where almost all rides are hilly and really notice the difference when i lose a little "timber". Do this and try to find a local hill that is akin to those which you find hardest and do repeats, lots of them. Its a bit boring, but it really does work. Otherwise pick a loop that has a mix of hard climbs in and ride it solo as often as you can, i personally prefer this method as i get bored easily, but its not such a quick fix.
Its also beneficial to use as low a gear as possible when your climbing on a long ride, whilst maintaining a high cadence, over a ride of this distance this will help keep the dreaded cramp at bay. Grinding out a high gear may be tempting to give others the impression that you're stonger than you are, passing them by during the early stages as they spin their legs wildly making seemingly little progress, but you will pay for it with cramp later in the ride. Especially if you're not used to long hilly rides, cramp will very likely be a problem you encounter in the later stages. Fairly sure that Lance used a triple chainset for some of the Alpine stages for this very reason.
Another tip that i have learnt over the years is to never freewheel when you get over the top, no matter how tempting it may be, always keep your legs spinning on the descent. Not only will you get to the bottom quicker, but fast spinning against little resistance is something else that will dissipate the dreaded lactic.
Also agree with the not freewheeling at the top of the hill, its something I've been guilty of, and its a terrible habit...
All I wanted to do the other day was stop pedaling after killing myself up the hill, it levels off and the sadists have put the line 300m down the road, I had to shift back to big ring and grind it out, got back up to 37 mph and some b
d still managed to come by me 10 ft before the line 
All I wanted to do the other day was stop pedaling after killing myself up the hill, it levels off and the sadists have put the line 300m down the road, I had to shift back to big ring and grind it out, got back up to 37 mph and some b
d still managed to come by me 10 ft before the line okgo said:
Also agree with the not freewheeling at the top of the hill, its something I've been guilty of, and its a terrible habit...
All I wanted to do the other day was stop pedaling after killing myself up the hill, it levels off and the sadists have put the line 300m down the road, I had to shift back to big ring and grind it out, got back up to 37 mph and some bd still managed to come by me 10 ft before the line
Doh!!All I wanted to do the other day was stop pedaling after killing myself up the hill, it levels off and the sadists have put the line 300m down the road, I had to shift back to big ring and grind it out, got back up to 37 mph and some b
d still managed to come by me 10 ft before the line Incidently am just about to head out and practise what i preach and its windy too - which is nice...
Thanks for the replies, just need to get out and practice some of it!
I'm not sure if weight is the problem (5'10/170lbs), although correct me if i could benefit from slimming down. Longer gradual climbs are usually ok as i can spin up those, its when it starts to get steeper, i start to suffer.
Thanks again,
Graham
I'm not sure if weight is the problem (5'10/170lbs), although correct me if i could benefit from slimming down. Longer gradual climbs are usually ok as i can spin up those, its when it starts to get steeper, i start to suffer.
Thanks again,
Graham
Good luck and keep us updated with your progress!
Re the weight, your most certainly not overweight for your height so dont try and lose any if you dont feel the need to, but even a couple of kilos saved would pay dividends for that sort of ride. It really depends on how far you want to take it and your general build. I'm a little taller at 6ft and quite broad shouldered and i find that my peak weight for getting over hills without losing too much speed on the flat is about 163lbs, have gone lower in the past but ended up looking like skeletor... At the moment i am a couple of pounds over this. Whilst long, relatively gentle inclines are fine i can certainly feel it when it gets steep, so looking to lose this over the next couple of weeks. Some of the more dedicated climbers will be a good deal lighter still, even Whiggins at 6'2 is about 150lbs...but then pro's are a breed apart!!
Re the weight, your most certainly not overweight for your height so dont try and lose any if you dont feel the need to, but even a couple of kilos saved would pay dividends for that sort of ride. It really depends on how far you want to take it and your general build. I'm a little taller at 6ft and quite broad shouldered and i find that my peak weight for getting over hills without losing too much speed on the flat is about 163lbs, have gone lower in the past but ended up looking like skeletor... At the moment i am a couple of pounds over this. Whilst long, relatively gentle inclines are fine i can certainly feel it when it gets steep, so looking to lose this over the next couple of weeks. Some of the more dedicated climbers will be a good deal lighter still, even Whiggins at 6'2 is about 150lbs...but then pro's are a breed apart!!
Pace is also key. Every week on the chain gang ride I race this one bloke up a spiky hill. The snakes are off the front so it's a bit of fun. He goes off quicker but I catch him every time about 3/4 the way up. He then digs kills himself then can be taken out. I try to settle into a rythym and change down early then build gradually. Everyone is different. Soon hill interval training is coming to weeknights and living in the middle of the Chilterns will be 'fun'.
Sitting in the spin studio at the gym (no class, just me and a Hed Kandi cd) helped me a lot.
I normally do interval training but concentrated on being out of the saddle to help my hills. I am now happy doing an hour out of the saddle in the gym so 5 minutes out of the saddle on my road bike is a POP.
I normally do interval training but concentrated on being out of the saddle to help my hills. I am now happy doing an hour out of the saddle in the gym so 5 minutes out of the saddle on my road bike is a POP.
It does help to build or strengthen your core,..I enjoy the hills and make sure I concentrate on every pedal stroke to put power in. With core strength you can effectively use your body balance to keep spinning without putting much strain on your legs.
The other thing I do is count the pedal strokes, to see how I am covering distance...you can effectively work out how many strokes to the top and it helps to keep momentum and cadence up.
The other thing I do is count the pedal strokes, to see how I am covering distance...you can effectively work out how many strokes to the top and it helps to keep momentum and cadence up.
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