tubs on a roadbike

[2seas]

i got my planet-x timetrial bike a few days ago. itching to take it out for a ride this weekend. it came with tubs which was a bit of a surprise (i should have read the description a bit more closely). i've therefore invested in a spare tyre and some vittora pit stop thingmies..

anyone else had any experience of using tubs? from what i've read (exhaustively) through much googling they've come a long way and double sided tub tape means easy swapping. also, apparently it's much quicker to change during a ride and the stickyness of the previous tub tape is enough to hold the new one in place (so long as you aren't doing any crazy descents) so a puncture wouldn't be a big deal during a race... the issue might be getting the new tyre up to pressure with a hand pump..

any insights very welcome.

[2seas]

by the way i tried a seach on this but the previous posts i found about tubs were a year or more old and as technology has a habit of evolving rapidly i was wondering what the current thoughts are.

also, mods: i have a similar post to this in the Tri thread but i think it's more relevant here so perhaps you could remove that one?

[itsnotarace]

Everything you need to know about tubulars is in this thread

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic....

The overwhelming recommendation is to use glue and not tape for road use. The cornering forces on uneven roads means that you can roll the tyre off the rim and a strong glue bond is much better. Depends how much you value your teeth really?


"...Tufo tape has three things going for it. It is very fast, very easy, and a very sub-standard way to glue up your tires. I want to say that if you are using training tires as tubulars, go ahead and glue them with Vitoria Mastik One glue. It's the best ever, and you won't regret it...There are a lot of mechanics out there that are vastly more experienced and intelligent than I am, and none of them think Tufo tape is worth more than a rider's skin. I remember reading somewhere that Tufo only recommends using their tape with their tires as well, so I've always stayed away from it. I've mentioned an article written by Chip Howat called “Tubular Tires: Adhesives and Practice” on this blog before and it is the definitive study on tubular glue and tire mounting process. I've been glueing tubulars this way for years and I've never had a single athlete complain about their tires and I've never had a tire roll off a rim. There is also a really great, shorter, less scientific article on the Park Tool website as well that was written by Calvin Jones, the co-author of the aforementioned article. I know this is a pretty general answer, but some other tips would be to make sure you get a consistent coverage of glue over the entire rim, seat the tire properly after you've mounted it, don't let the glue get excessively dry (is should just be tacky when you mount the tire), and for the love of God, stop using Tufo tape. Hope that helps."

It's really not that hard to get a good glue bond, it just takes patience and a steady hand.

[2seas]

thanks, i will eventually work my way through the 138 pages!

in the meantime does anyone have any real life experience of using tub tape they can share? i don't do crazy downhills and i don't push it around corners so i would think i put less lateral load on a tyre and therefore hopefully just tape is fine...

[fixedwheelnut]

Prefer glue over tape any day;
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[markcp]

I'm new to tubs too and removed a taped tub last week and the tape came off with the old tub, so there was nothing left to stick a new tub on. If this was mid-ride, I'd be riding home on a tub that isn't stuck to the rim which doesn't fill me with confidence!

Glue for me albeit I'm having my first attempt this week...

[racerbob]

Have used both tape and glue in the past, tape works ok until you have to change a tub mid ride as another poster experienced. Continental glue works well, sometimes too well on carbon rims, if your not careful removing the tub, you'll leave the base tape on the rim, not good.

[fixedwheelnut]

Ideally your spare tub is an older one removed that still has a bit of glue on, when you change it mid ride there should be enough glue left on the rim to stick on the spare enough to hold it for a careful ride home.

You can carry a small role of rim tape as well with your spare tub if you want.

[racerbob]

fixedwheelnut,

Way back in the days when we all rode sprints and tubs (60's/70's) I had a mate who used to carry a can of Dunlop rim cement in his back pocket, just so that if he punctured he could slop a bit on the rim, used to be a laugh watching him do this in the wind and rain, then he'd moan about all the excess 'strands' of glue that wound round his fingers, happy days !!

[b2hbm]

2seas said:

in the meantime does anyone have any real life experience of using tub tape they can share? i don't do crazy downhills and i don't push it around corners so i would think i put less lateral load on a tyre and therefore hopefully just tape is fine...

Ok, my 2p'worth. Yes, I've used both tub tape & glue and come from an era when the only way to stick them on was a glue brush, which is pretty much the way this thread is pointing.

So it might come as a surprise to hear I use tape these days and haven't used glue for, well, at least 15yrs. No rolled tubs but then again I'm not riding Alpine passes or in 35C temperatures and I doubt I ever come near to the limits of adhesion on a corner.

In fairness tape does have problems that I don't recall having with glue. The first is if you're doing a lot of heavy braking on descents I find tape allows the tub to rotate on the rim (you can see the valve move to less than 90deg to the rim). Secondly the tape is one use only, when you pull off a tub 9/10 times the tape comes with it - the cloth of the tub has more adhesion than the smooth Aluminium of the rim. There is no way I would put another tub on with confidence whereas old glue and a pre-glued tub will allow you to limp home.

Even so I prefer tape mainly because it's easier and consistent. I'm aware of the single use issue and carry a roll of tape inside the spare tub & renew the tape/tub if I puncture. Another reason is that I have zero faith in 2nd use glue, even back in the day I'd clean a rim with solvent before putting on a new tub. Yes, old glue will hold a tub in place but that's 90% down to the inflation pressure and I'd be amazed if 2nd use glue was better than single use tape.

No argument - fresh glue will hold a tub in place far better than tape, but tape works for me and presumably other riders ?

Brian

Edited by b2hbm on Tuesday 17th April 07:24

[2seas]

b2hbm said:

2seas said:

in the meantime does anyone have any real life experience of using tub tape they can share? i don't do crazy downhills and i don't push it around corners so i would think i put less lateral load on a tyre and therefore hopefully just tape is fine...

Ok, my 2p'worth. Yes, I've used both tub tape & glue and come from an era when the only way to stick them on was a glue brush, which is pretty much the way this thread is pointing.

So it might come as a surprise to hear I use tape these days and haven't used glue for, well, at least 15yrs. No rolled tubs but then again I'm not riding Alpine passes or in 35C temperatures and I doubt I ever come near to the limits of adhesion on a corner.

In fairness tape does have problems that I don't recall having with glue. The first is if you're doing a lot of heavy braking on descents I find tape allows the tub to rotate on the rim (you can see the valve move to less than 90deg to the rim). Secondly the tape is one use only, when you pull off a tub 9/10 times the tape comes with it - the cloth of the tub has more adhesion than the smooth Aluminium of the rim. There is no way I would put another tub on with confidence whereas old glue and a pre-glued tub will allow you to limp home.

Even so I prefer tape mainly because it's easier and consistent. I'm aware of the single use issue and carry a roll of tape inside the spare tub & renew the tape/tub if I puncture. Another reason is that I have zero faith in 2nd use glue, even back in the day I'd clean a rim with solvent before putting on a new tub. Yes, old glue will hold a tub in place but that's 90% down to the inflation pressure and I'd be amazed if 2nd use glue was better than single use tape.

No argument - fresh glue will hold a tub in place far better than tape, but tape works for me and presumably other riders ?

Brian

Edited by b2hbm on Tuesday 17th April 07:24

thanks this is great! i think i'll follow the same path as you and see how I get on (i.e. spare tub with a spare roll of tape). Just out of interest - how long does it take you to change with a spare (including laying down a new set of tape)?

Like you I'm not planning on any crazy descents and i don't tend to turn very quickly - much prefer to be smooth and steady so i doubt i'll subject the tub to particularly high lateral forces..

[itsnotarace]

b2hbm said:

Another reason is that I have zero faith in 2nd use glue, even back in the day I'd clean a rim with solvent before putting on a new tub. Yes, old glue will hold a tub in place but that's 90% down to the inflation pressure and I'd be amazed if 2nd use glue was better than single use tape.

My reasoning is that providing you put down a good number of layers on the rim, there will always be enough glue remaining to get a decent bond with a pre-glued spare. It's a chemical process remember, the old dry glue on the rim will activate when in contact with the pre-glued tyre again enough to provide a get-me-home bond. Once home the spare tyre can be removed, another layer of fresh glue added to the rim (or even re-prep the rim from scratch if you feel it's too patchy) and then a fresh tyre glued on.

I'm not suggesting that people start cornering at 40 degree lean angles on the pre-glued spare - far from it - I would suggest keeping the bike upright as possible, but the bond will be plenty good enough to get you home.

I can't remember which forum I've read it on but someone's signature reads something along the lines of

"Tape was designed to wrap your girlfriends presents, not hold tyres on"

[b2hbm]

2seas said:

thanks this is great! i think i'll follow the same path as you and see how I get on (i.e. spare tub with a spare roll of tape). Just out of interest - how long does it take you to change with a spare (including laying down a new set of tape)?

I've never really thought about it, but I'd guess only a couple of minutes at most. Pulling the old tub off will usually bring off the old tape, running some new tape takes what, a minute say ? New tub in place is likewise well under a minute. I'd say it takes me longer to pump it up than anything else

Whatever you use the important thing it to make sure it's seated and fully inflated before you set off - pressure is doing most of the "holding on" at first regardless if it's glue or tape.

[IroningMan]

I use tape - the plastic Tufo stuff is easiest, but cloth tape tends, I think, to leave more stick on the rim if you do have to change a tyre.

Much more of a challenge is getting a seamed tyre, like a Conti, to seat well on a rim without a central 'well': I'm not happy with that at all, and need to source some seamless tubs.