New Cooper S tuning

[TVR2+2]

Does anyone have any experience of the works Cooper S or of the West Tuning (Thruxton) Cooper S? Trying to decide which to go for for new Cooper S convertible. I understand from JCW that new works kit will be approx 210bhp.

Any advice most welcome.

Thanks

[plotloss]

JCW is well over engineered but consequently big money. It does however allow you to maintain warranty and is unique in that respect.

West, BBR, AMD and all the others are much of a muchness. A lot cheaper too.

[Fatboy]

plotloss said:

JCW is well over engineered but consequently big money. It does however allow you to maintain warranty and is unique in that respect. West, BBR, AMD and all the others are much of a muchness. A lot cheaper too.

Also the JCW kit doesn't make the claimed 200 bhp (none of their tuning kits for the classic mini ever seem top make the calimed power either) - I've seen a few on rolling road shootouts where the JCW was only making 190 bhp ish, while standard S's were making 170-180 bhp on thee same road on the same day...

[Paul V]

One of the London and Surrey JCW cars made 230 bhp on the rollers, compared to 180 of the standard.

[Fatboy]

Paul V said:

One of the London and Surrey JCW cars made 230 bhp on the rollers, compared to 180 of the standard.

That's pretty good - but I've seen several of them in Mini mag/world falling well short of the claimed 200 bhp, and that's the first time I've heard of one making the claimed 200 bhp, let alone exceeding it. And I've never heard of the classic 90 bhp mpi kit making anywhere near 90 bhp...

I'm not knocking the quality of the installation, just making the point that the power figures are (from what I've read/heard) more than a tad optimistic...

[Paul V]

I know on the old Mini the JC conversions rarely make their stated power but was under the impression most new JCW were underrated, I suppose it could depend on the power the car had originally.

How's the Mini coming along?

[Fatboy]

Paul V said:

I know on the old Mini the JC conversions rarely make their stated power but was under the impression most new JCW were underrated, I suppose it could depend on the power the car had originally. How's the Mini coming along?

Well, the standard Cooper S does seem to be universally underrated powerwise, but I would like to see a large number of new Cooper Ss vs JCW Coopers Ss on a good rolling road shootout - would make for an interesting test...

The mini's not had much done to it since we last spoke at BTaP03 - had to leave it in the UK when I moved out to Canada (it's currently occupying the back of my Mum's garage :hehe). My brother was supposed to be running it around every couple of weeks, but I don't think he's been able to, so it'll probably be siezed solid by the time I get back to the UK... Still, it'll be a kick up the arse to get on with the K series transplant

[Paul V]

K series? What one will you go for?

[rich-uk]

BTW, the new Cooper S' inc. the convertable have 170bph as standard.

[plotloss]

Do you know whats different Rich?

Is it an induction modification or something silly like a 1% pulley?

[Fatboy]

Paul V said:

K series? What one will you go for?

Definately a 1.4 (generally stronger block than the bigger bore engines, and cheaper and easier to com by) out of a metro GTi - about 1991 vintage, as that had the 105 bhp engine without needing to keep the cat for the MOT.

Once I get that in and fitted I reckon I'll be able to find a wrecked rover 75 1.8T, and take the turbo/manifolds off that and bolt it onto the 1.4, and raise the boost (reason for the 1.4 rather than 1.8, I reckon it'll be able to take more boost). I'll haver to ditch the MEMs for something like a Weber Alpha though - or could possibly just use the 1.8T management with a piggyback chip...

That should give me VTEC killing power with a lighter weight, as well as the novelty of a turbo K series Mini

[jeffriesmullet]

what ever u do no k series i work in a garage and they are the most cheeply made unreliable engine in the world and crap 2 work on

[TVR2+2]

Paul V said:

One of the London and Surrey JCW cars made 230 bhp on the rollers, compared to 180 of the standard.

I would be interested to know where this figure came from. If true, it makes the JCW the one to have.

[Fatboy]

[quote=TVR2+2]

Paul V said:

One of the London and Surrey JCW cars made 230 bhp on the rollers, compared to 180 of the standard.

I would be interested to know where this figure came from. If true, it makes the JCW the one to have.[/quote]
Minispeed do a 260 bhp kit - and their kits always make the claimed power IME... Plus it's no more expensive than the JCW...

[Davey1109]

Hi everyone, newbie here....

I have a JCW S and the reason I chose it is for the Warranty issues surrounding any aftermarket kits.

Havin said that I have addded a BMP air intake to it just to give it a little extra razz

I still think the JCW is the one to go for personally... I am hoping to get mine dyno'd pretty soon so will let you know how I get on when I do

[NDT]

Fatboy said:

plotloss said: JCW is well over engineered but consequently big money. It does however allow you to maintain warranty and is unique in that respect. West, BBR, AMD and all the others are much of a muchness. A lot cheaper too. Also the JCW kit doesn't make the claimed 200 bhp (none of their tuning kits for the classic mini ever seem top make the calimed power either) - I've seen a few on rolling road shootouts where the JCW was only making 190 bhp ish, while standard S's were making 170-180 bhp on thee same road on the same day...

the average rolling road is not a properly run, properly calibrated bit of kit, and therefore the results can't be trusted.
the JCW kit was properly engineered, anmd that included TUV witness testing for the power output - something that lesser conversions would not have gone throug.

[Fatboy]

NDT said:

Fatboy said: plotloss said: JCW is well over engineered but consequently big money. It does however allow you to maintain warranty and is unique in that respect. West, BBR, AMD and all the others are much of a muchness. A lot cheaper too. Also the JCW kit doesn't make the claimed 200 bhp (none of their tuning kits for the classic mini ever seem top make the calimed power either) - I've seen a few on rolling road shootouts where the JCW was only making 190 bhp ish, while standard S's were making 170-180 bhp on thee same road on the same day... the average rolling road is not a properly run, properly calibrated bit of kit, and therefore the results can't be trusted. the JCW kit was properly engineered, anmd that included TUV witness testing for the power output - something that lesser conversions would not have gone throug.

I know that you can't trust rolling roads to get absolute power outputs, but I thought that if you had 2 cars on the same day, with the same operator, you'd get a reliable relative power output (i.e. you could reliably tell that car A had 10% more power than car B)? And it's from those sort of results I concluded the JCW kit is overly optimistic? Didn't know about the TUV testing, that would imply that it is actually 200 BHP, but on the balance of every JC tuned car I've ever read about on the rollers, I'd have to say that I'm still very skeptical that their kits make the claimed power... Of course, If I'm way off with my supposition that rolling roads are reliable for relative power outputs, then none of this means anything

[NDT]

Fatboy said:

I know that you can't trust rolling roads to get absolute power outputs, but I thought that if you had 2 cars on the same day, with the same operator, you'd get a reliable relative power output (i.e. you could reliably tell that car A had 10% more power than car B)? And it's from those sort of results I concluded the JCW kit is overly optimistic? ..... If I'm way off with my supposition that rolling roads are reliable for relative power outputs, then none of this means anything

fair point!